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Forum > Discuss GLB Issues With Catch22 > ISSUES DETERMINED NOT BUGS > QB holding the ball too long - ISSUE DETERMINED NOT A BUG - CLOSED
legster
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I know this was addressed as a problem in the discussion thread for potential changes. Since it made it into production, I figure it needs it's own thread to address this. Anyone who has ever watched an NFL game has heard the announcer say that QBs( especially if you ever watched Rex Grossman play ) are taught to release the ball within so many seconds or they are going to get crushed.

Here are two plays in today's scrims where the QB seems to get stuck and can't make a decision:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981355&pbp_id=8633

There are two one on one coverages that I can see the QB passing up once, but when pressure is coming he needs to make a decision faster. He definitely should have passed to WR1. He looks like he makes it to around 7 progressions before taking the sack. The QB was set to 40 open man.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981355&pbp_id=9264

The second play the QB makes it through 10 progressions before taking the sack. There are two receivers in one on one coverage, and the other two have loose double coverage. No reason to hold the ball this long.

It seems there either needs to be a timer added to get rid of the ball at a certain point. Or, after going through so many progressions throw to the receiver with the least risk.

Post more links here if you have them please.
Edited by Mike Rogers on Feb 19, 2012 03:25:30 (Determined Not a Bug - Closed)
Edited by Mike Rogers on Feb 16, 2012 18:11:21 (Admin review)
 
Mike1709
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Whatever happened to passes being thrown away? they used to happen often (at least a couple per game) but I haven't seen one for seasons now
 
Mike Rogers
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I'll Mark this as Admin Review for now, but I am aware this is already on the radar.
 
legster
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Here are some more plays from today's scrim. I did not see much of a difference from today's update trying to make the QB less picky. I posted what I think is a good fix for this bug at the end of the thread.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981996&pbp_id=132471
QB(65 open man): 6 progressions, then decides to run. His tactics are set to "Almost Never" run.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981996&pbp_id=132488
QB(65 open man): 7 progressions before taking a sack. Each receiver is single covered. Last season with where his slider is set that QB would make that throw 100% of the time to the first WR2 who is more than open enough to make a play.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981996&pbp_id=134464
QB(65 open man): 7 progressions. Again, 90% of the time before the update the QB would make that 1st throw to the TE at 65 open man. Then he makes a good decision on #2(LB is in intercept path), #3 is now covered tougher but open underneath, #4 is one on one and should be a prime target, #5 was one on one, and a good target, not going to #6 is a good decision, then a bad pass to #7 into near double coverage.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981996&pbp_id=134523
QB(40 open man): 6 progressions. Everyone, except the WR2 is double covered. So all the QB decisions here look good. Except, it looks like the new change that makes the 1st down marker a priority is emphasized too much on this play. Considering his team is up by 11 points in the 4th quarter he should have dumped the pass to the WR2 for short yards to help with the FG range. Instead he throws a bad pass into double coverage.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981996&pbp_id=135197
QB(65 open man): 6 progression. QB should have thrown to the HB, wide open on 1st progression. #2 good decision not to throw, #3 is double covered but ahead of his defenders and he should have thrown it. #4 looks the same as #2, but while he is still looking at him he starts to break away ( I could see a QB passing on this chance though), #5 he should have thrown it, and #6 was a good decision.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981996&pbp_id=135498
QB(40 open man): 7 progressions. He passes up on #1 that could be debated, #2 is double covered but again he running ahead of his defenders so he should have made the pass, #3 looks like a debatable good decision, #4 is a good decision, #5 is single covered ( after passing up on 4 previous targets with a priority setting of 40 open man, he has to pass to this guy ). He makes another good decision on #6, then is forced to pass into double coverage by a hurry on #7.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981996&pbp_id=132514
QB(65 open man): 6 progressions, then makes a slow but good decision under pressure. Good outcome, but I think the bug here is that the slider setting is being ignored. The QB should have gotten rid of it much sooner. His first 3 targets were all single covered. I think the reason they were ignored, is because the new sim changes take into account players near the target. But in the case of the 2nd progression with the TE, the target is going opposite of the other defenders on the field. The sim should take that into consideration.

less important bugs, but still issues:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981996&pbp_id=132757
QB(65 open man): 8 progressions. Coverage is indeed tight. I think this is a symptom of the sim considering too much nearby defenders too much. Since there are so many defenders in the end zone he just freaks out and decides to never throw.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981996&pbp_id=134282
QB(40 open man): 6 progressions. Passes up 3 single covered dots, then passes into double coverage with no pressure. (No Go to Guy involved)

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981996&pbp_id=132670
QB(65 open man): 4 progressions. Should have released at 2 or 3. Sim is putting too much consideration into 'defenders nearby' and not considering their travel paths. I can see a player missing one of those, no pro QB would miss both of those.

QB(65 open man):http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1981996&pbp_id=132648
QB: 6 progressions. This is probably the perfect example of the bug where it considers the "defenders near target" too much on short distances. In the 1st two opportunities to pass to the BTE if he had taken it would have likely been a completed pass.

After watching this whole game here are how I see the bugs currently:
1. It seems the new QB rules are ignoring the QB slider for pass priority. For both QBs in this game, the QBs are set on the open man side of the slider. So there seems to be no consideration for route distance the way there used to be.
2. It seems like today's update forces the QB into hurry up pressure, even when there is none after so many progressions. I think that is a better solution, but it should not be the same equal pressure as a DT in his face. So instead of forcing him to throw to whoever he is looking at, let him remember the last 3 targets he looked at that were single covered and maybe dump it back to the closest one.
3. The passing game seems to gets buggier closer to the end zone. As the receivers have less room to run, the QB thinks everyone has tight coverage, even if they do not. This is resulting in less short and quick passes.

Here is the best solution to fix this #3 above:
Symptom:
I would assume the major reason for implementing this change is because on long passing routes, defenders in zone who were far away from the receiver quickly move into position so when the ball arrives then there is double coverage. I think most of that stems from distance, and a lot of zone defenders now have ball hawk. So they are able to easily turn single coverage on a long throw into double or triple coverage by the time the ball arrives. I think the sim changes addresses that well in long throws.

Treatment:
The problem now is that it seems a TE who is 3 yards down field is getting that same "defenders nearby" consideration as a player who is 30 yards down field. That needs to be removed, or trimmed down. In two of the plays above, the QB ignores a wide open HB because there is a DE sitting in the flat several yards behind the back. There is no way that De could make a play in those case, but the sim ignores the back because of it. Have the sim only consider defenders nearby after 7 - 10 yards, and then scale it up from there.

I like the direction these changes are going. So I am not trying to bash them, only to improve them. Thanks for hearing me out.
 
AlBarsch
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http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1982129&pbp_id=219177
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1982129&pbp_id=219330


I could post many more, but I concur. My $0.02:

Happens when progressional reads QB are going through are "interrupted" by a "I'm Open" pop up. He immediately tucks if failing vision check... Yes, this is peewee so, the issue is exasperated due to many vision check epic phails. QB setting to: throw away aggressive, -100 open man, so maybe those settings are constricting QB options?
Edited by AlBarsch on Feb 17, 2012 15:31:18
Edited by AlBarsch on Feb 17, 2012 15:30:52
Edited by AlBarsch on Feb 17, 2012 15:28:26
 
Arayel
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I had the OP's problem a lot with my level 40 QB's in their last game. They flick through their progressions then once those are done they seem to just sit there and wait. When they finally do throw (if not sacked - took 10 sacks from 28 pass attempts) there seems little sense to their targets and often they threw into heavy cover rather than to a single cover target.

My QB's are always set around the -80-90 open man area and this has worked well for me before...hell we won the league last season. It seems that these new settings, while going in the right direction, have potentially opened up a can of worms as we see a lot more issues with the QB's actual decision making now they have time to make those decisions.

Another problem I have is the fact that even at 60 towards bullett passing the ball moves far too slowly and the QB isn't leading targets properly since the safeties and other players can cover a crazy amount of ground and basically mean any pass longer than about 8 yards is always thrown into double or triple cover regardless of how open the receiver was when the ball left the QB's hands.
 
AngryDragon
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lol, three open receivers. I guess the QB wanted to find the openest.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1946759&pbp_id=379557
Edited by AngryDragon on Feb 18, 2012 07:43:09
 
Catch22
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Per Bort after reviewing this thread:

I'm happy with how things look and the plays posted are working as intended. Just because a receiver is one on one does it mean his risk value is not high. If he's well covered, the QB will move on to the next target. Patience values are essentially back to where they were before, the one difference is he can now change his mind mid windup.

Bugs Mod can close as not a bug and notify OP.

 
Mike Rogers
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Closed
 
Mike Rogers
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Thread moved by moderator.
 
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