Warrior General Games

You don't have to be as fast or agile as the DE. He's got the tougher job of trying to get around you. All you have to do is get in his way and stay in it. Or knock him on his 48-60 strength ass.

Originally posted by Daddy Warbucks
You don't have to be as fast or agile as the DE. He's got the tougher job of trying to get around you. All you have to do is get in his way and stay in it. Or knock him on his 48-60 strength ass.

Yes, you don't have to have a 100 agility or 100 speed. But in comparison, what do you think is a good ratio to have against the DE? Is 30% of their speed/agility going to get you in front of them?...40%...50%?

I would think a 2/3rds, or 66% ratio is a better target. So at 100 agility, you need 66 agility. At 100 speed you need 66 speed.

I disagree on the speed ratio. Speed is there simply to help get in front quickly, but agility probably does the majority of it. I feel like speed supports agility for the OT. DE's use speed to get TO the QB using tunnel vision, and agility to get AROUND the OT using shed block. I'd be happy with 70% of his agility (75) and 50-60% of his speed (55).

Both can be obtained with 68 agility + equipment or VP, and capping speed + training for a while.

And I <3 your DE slowbuild analysis, it is what I can't wait to own the opposition with :-D. They can't get that +15% that soon though, needing 30 VP. My level 39 only got 19 VP in Bort's back-roll thing.

Anyway yeah, point is made in this topic multiple times that 68 agility and 60 speed will likely be necessary because of these VP, however you want to get there, but that 60/48 probably wont cut it soon... Stay ahead of the game, OTs!!

Yeah, realized I was off a bit...but the point is still there. That's what a DE would look like around level 40 to 45.

And I agree 66% ratio on both speed and agility is probably a bit much, and I think 70% agility, 55% speed is probably adequate.

After doing that analysis, I just wish I had built my DE that focused. Went 60's in speed/agility off the bat, rather than 68

Half of slowbuilders say stop at 60 at all positions. I laught in their face. Every position has the time to take 2 things to 68. Justfying 73 is another thing, but some do it for C/P/K. But EVERY POSITION should take atleast 2 stats to 68. Doesn't need to be the first 6 things you do if you don't want to go all out, but go look at your level 35+ players. I bet you're thinking about, or wishing, you had some things at 68, if not have them already.


Oops, off topic. Yeaaaah... okay 70% 55% is just random numbers we tossed out, but fine as I feel blocking makes up for a lot of it, and the fact that the DE has to go all the way around.

Against these Speed/Agility-Built DE's I would think that this would be effective:

(natural)
68 strength / 61 blocking
48 speed
68 agility
Plus generous application of pts in PROTECTOR (for lucky LT's) and Shock Block (for unlucky RT's) will help keep those DE's in their place. Equipment/CE/Adv.Equip can all help as well. That's more of a guessing game though- guessing "are they putting all their equip in agility?" is probably safest guess.

I'd say it isn't about ratio, just you need enough speed/agility to ensure fluid movement, which is probably something around 3:1 agility and at least 2:1 speed. You also HAVE to move exactly when the play starts or you'll get run right around, so vision (and possibly first step or jumping, something along those lines) is just as necessary as speed.
My speculation anyway.

My RT has 67 str, 74 blk, 48 spd, 69 agi and 3 first step in his current set up. When I boost, I'll likely take agi to 60 and finish getting str to 68 (both natural). By the end of the season, I should have blk close to 68 as well. With VAs, my str and blk will both be over 70 (without any EQ). Once there, I can put half my EQ on agi and split the rest between str/blk and be pretty dominant.

I should look something like this at level 42...

85-90 str
80-85 blk
70-75 agi
50-55 spd
50-55 vis
45-50 sta
40-45 con
Plus a handful of SAs, primarily run blocking (and 4-5 first step).

I honestly think that should be good enough to dominate the majority of DEs, in both the running and passing games. Against elite pass rushing DEs, I'll probably have to shift a little EQ around, but I should be able to keep them in check (maybe not dominate them though).

Originally posted by shull
This is what could be the case:

A DE slowbuilds agility and speed to 68 each. In his mid to high 30's, for ease lets say he has a raw score of a about 75 in both attributes. He selects Quick and Track Star, investing 15 in each. In the meantime, he's shopped around and found a great AE piece of +3 agility / +1 SA. He also has custom.

So here's what it could look like:

75 agility + 11.25 from quick + 6 custom + 7 AE + 5 level 32 equipment = 104.25
75 speed + 11.25 from track star + 10 level 32 gear = 96.25

And he hasn't hit 40, so he's looking forward to new equipment, too.

Since he slow built, at 35+, he's got his strength up to 60, tackling to 40+, and vision to 48, and he's looking forward to the next 6 seasons of play.

That is a nicely laid out arguement...the piece I'm not buying (although maybe you'll show me something I'm missing) is that the high lev 30's DE is going to have 15 points in vet abilities for track star AND 15 more for quick...Plus a player in his 30s can only spend 10 vet abilities on one skill.

Originally posted by PackMan97
Oct, personally, I plan to use my STR/BLK bonuses to shift EQ into SPD/AGI while I work those raw skills up.

I can do 15 Workout Warrior, shift 10 EQ points into Speed and VIOLA! Same build, +10 SPD. Ditto for BLK as I have EQ in there as well for another +10 to SPD/AGI.

Easiest way to boost SPD/AGI, much bigger return than Track Stah or Quick.

this is huge for centers, and any position with great automatic level gains.

my guy has about 80 base in both strength and blocking and is soon at the 1:3 agility cap... the +15% strength would give him about 92 (at least) at level 40.
so......... 92+ strength, 80 blocking and 90 agility? For a center..? Pretty nice...

either way, it frees up a lot of equipment points...

Merk: yeah, I was off a little in that calculation. Since he could only put 10 in each VA, he'd have 3.75 less in each attribute until he reached 40. So about 101 and 93 in each with level 32 equipment. 104 & 96 in his 40's once he gets 10 more VA points, plus 4 more from lvl 40 equipment upgrades. Since it's hyphothetical, maybe he'd be first guy to 100/100



Kwankwan: I've got a center that by doing this could have what amounts to 90 Str & Blk and 70 agil & speed at level 32. It makes him a good backup across the line at the very least.

Originally posted by shull
Merk: yeah, I was off a little in that calculation. Since he could only put 10 in each VA, he'd have 3.75 less in each attribute until he reached 40. So about 101 and 93 in each with level 32 equipment. 104 & 96 in his 40's once he gets 10 more VA points, plus 4 more from lvl 40 equipment upgrades. Since it's hyphothetical, maybe he'd be first guy to 100/100



Kwankwan: I've got a center that by doing this could have what amounts to 90 Str & Blk and 70 agil & speed at level 32. It makes him a good backup across the line at the very least.

Your right...my lev 31 DE can be a 100/100 guy by lev 40.

Can you imagine a returner with 110/90 speed/agility or agility/speed?

Edit: our OTs were given a BIG advantage with starting 1 yd back from the line of scrimmage...its like adding even more vision delay to the D-line since we get a 1 yard head start on every play. I think this decreases the importance of speed...but then at this point, that is just a guess.

Do you think that speed is less important now that the OT and G's are lining up a step behind the c?