Warrior General Games

I mean - % is big cuz every1 sits on sweet spots of every Off. We need more good passing plays for every formation. Now there are like 10 elite passing plays - every Def got bonuses from knowledge against them. Passing game is just left in the dust by pass defences.

Pls let us make some passing plays. That will fix many things. Also progression of many plays is just bad. If fixed they will be much better.


examples? trips posts or trips hooks. Just play 4:3 zone or 5:2 zone. There will be ints. I can believe any1 still using normal 3 wr sets.

Originally posted by Ghanima
I mean - % is big cuz every1 sits on sweet spots of every Off. We need more good passing plays for every formation. Now there are like 10 elite passing plays - every Def got bonuses from knowledge against them. Passing game is just left in the dust by pass defences.

Pls let us make some passing plays. That will fix many things. Also progression of many plays is just bad. If fixed they will be much better.


examples? trips posts or trips hooks. Just play 4:3 zone or 5:2 zone. There will be ints. I can believe any1 still using normal 3 wr sets.



We need more good passing plays for every formation

I'm actually of the opinion that's it's really not the passing plays. I know we all think that (myself included for a long time) but the route structures of the passing plays are normal football plays. They work in football and should work in GLB2.

What's not working is:

1. Pass Progression: It needs to be Left to Right OR Right to Left where the outlet pass is at the end. Too many progressions have a weird order. Changing the first target was a nice option, but it doesn't change the order or Right-Left-Right-Left-Right that so many passes have.

2. How does Pass Progression and Pass Awareness actually work? They exist but what are the mechanics. Why doesn't the QB throw to WRs sitting in between zones?

3. Sacks are too fast relative to the decision making of the QB. Sacks are happening at tick 30-32 which is enough for receivers to go 10 yards, so why isn't the QB throwing the ball pre-Tick 30 on Short passes? Are the receivers too slow? Is the QB brain too slow? Is the drop-back script too long? QBs take 3 step, 5 step and 7 step drops in the NFL depending on the pass distance. Is that the GLB2 issue? I don't know.

4. What are the catch (vs. INT, deflection, etc.) mechanics that can be improved on for Short passes, but do not exist on longer passes. SA Quick Hitter was clearly designed to help this, but it doesn't seem to do enough. What would? Are we using QH wrong?

I'm pretty sure everyone was in agreement in the distant past that getting Sacks at Vet was difficult, QB's just release the ball fast because their targets can get to their routes quicker.

I honestly think if there is a problem, its because OC's are just calling plays that fall into defender's hands instead of just trying other plays or targeting other areas of the field. Most of the guys here just call the same old shit that's been called for going on a decade or whatever, which allows guys like me to progressively get better at defending against them. When I ask for defensive plays, a lot of times its so I can get a play to defend against offensive plays.

A better solution is to just give us new pass plays as you all suggest. I've asked for the template several times over the years, but maybe next season I'll just make my own and see what happens.

Originally posted by Xars
We need more good passing plays for every formation

I'm actually of the opinion that's it's really not the passing plays. I know we all think that (myself included for a long time) but the route structures of the passing plays are normal football plays. They work in football and should work in GLB2.


Lack of passing plays isn't the only reason, but I do think it's a major one. Largely because there are so few long plays outside of spreads, screens are busted, and play action useless now. The pass play selection in GLB2 is not much different from season 1. Meanwhile hundreds of defensive plays have been added. Its not hard to plan defensive plays in each formation to counter the 1-3 possible pass plays that actually work. With scout even easier. Again, Trips has just one long pass play, for example

Originally posted by

What's not working is:

1. Pass Progression: It needs to be Left to Right OR Right to Left where the outlet pass is at the end. Too many progressions have a weird order. Changing the first target was a nice option, but it doesn't change the order or Right-Left-Right-Left-Right that so many passes have.

2. How does Pass Progression and Pass Awareness actually work? They exist but what are the mechanics. Why doesn't the QB throw to WRs sitting in between zones?

3. Sacks are too fast relative to the decision making of the QB. Sacks are happening at tick 30-32 which is enough for receivers to go 10 yards, so why isn't the QB throwing the ball pre-Tick 30 on Short passes? Are the receivers too slow? Is the QB brain too slow? Is the drop-back script too long? QBs take 3 step, 5 step and 7 step drops in the NFL depending on the pass distance. Is that the GLB2 issue? I don't know.

4. What are the catch (vs. INT, deflection, etc.) mechanics that can be improved on for Short passes, but do not exist on longer passes. SA Quick Hitter was clearly designed to help this, but it doesn't seem to do enough. What would? Are we using QH wrong?

The way to attack a GLB2 zone is to stretch it. Screen passes work too, but we know the state of those right now(blocking is the issue IMO). Play Action is a third way, and was effective until is got nerfed.

How to fix this?

Pass pressure
- Like you point out, sacks are too fast. The reason for this is simple, pass rush power is OP. "Tunnel Vision now halves blocker technique rolls", when this was changed it allowed DLinemen to pump PRP(which can be maxed on a new rookie), and essentially destroy OLines. The cost to add Pass Block Power is substantially more, so not only can't you counter with power, you also have OTs & Guards who get their Tech halved. All with DLs not needing much Tech. TV fires like crazy, never mind Line Crashing LBs helping. The result is that QBs force rushed passes, and we all know how that goes. Improving pass protection would help a lot, and allow routes to progress.

-Pass Awareness is a mixed bag. I mean if a WR is wide open, I want the QB to make the pass, but wow do QBs seem to throw the laziest passes right to the defender 5 yards away who just happens to be in the pathway of the ball. The passing arc has been improved, so it's much better than before where passes were basically bullets ready to be picked. But there is still this thing where the QB throws a duck right to the defender instead of adding more loft. And I'm not sure what the answer is to this, I imagine it's a nightmare to code.

I should point out, people focus on INTs for good reason. But INT drops are also numerous, which is why completion pct% is so low. Many times a pass is right to a defender and they just drop it. I really think the random short pickoff/deflects are why stats are the way they are. And really, there's no way to avoid them outside of throwing screens all game.

I'm not in the camp of nerfing zone, because if people build and invest into a meta, they deserve those rewards. I just think GLB2 needs counters to things like TV which is broken, the same way we got Brick Wall for Powerbacks(maybe Strong Arm buff or new SA). And something to help QBs make decent passes when a receiver is open. I see them open often...the ball just doesn't get to them many times.

GLB2 is much like a game of chess between coaches, so the more counters the better I say.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
I'm pretty sure everyone was in agreement in the distant past that getting Sacks at Vet was difficult, QB's just release the ball fast because their targets can get to their routes quicker.

I honestly think if there is a problem, its because OC's are just calling plays that fall into defender's hands instead of just trying other plays or targeting other areas of the field. Most of the guys here just call the same old shit that's been called for going on a decade or whatever, which allows guys like me to progressively get better at defending against them. When I ask for defensive plays, a lot of times its so I can get a play to defend against offensive plays.

A better solution is to just give us new pass plays as you all suggest. I've asked for the template several times over the years, but maybe next season I'll just make my own and see what happens.

Eh, many OCs try all sorts of formations and plays, this problem still persists across the board. That's a key part of Xars data that was undersold, the impact was in every formation. And while more plays are needed badly, mechanics play a major part in this too

Originally posted by BoDiddley
Eh, many OCs try all sorts of formations and plays, this problem still persists across the board. That's a key part of Xars data that was undersold, the impact was in every formation. And while more plays are needed badly, mechanics play a major part in this too

I'm more for working within the system we have since I think it's easier to get changes... like what about reducing the cost of Route Elusiveness help make Head Fake a viable SA?

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
I'm more for working within the system we have since I think it's easier to get changes... like what about reducing the cost of Route Elusiveness help make Head Fake a viable SA?

Head Fakes don't work against zones much though, that would just be a nerf to Man defenses. And Head Fake/Elusiveness is already viable, Dream Team used it last run and using in this one. Would be probably be OP is it got buffed, and I'm saying that as someone whose team would likely benefit greatly.

The issue isn't receivers getting open, it's more about the QB getting the ball to them when open. Nothing wrong with Ints/deflects when they're covered, but even when yards away from a defender wide open, QBs will throw into that zone wall and get picked/PD.

If there was a way to use Pass Awareness to add more lob to what should be an easy pass, that would be great, but not sure if that's possible. That way Agents would still have to invest in SP, and zones wouldn't be nerfed

Originally posted by BoDiddley
Head Fakes don't work against zones much though, that would just be a nerf to Man defenses. And Head Fake/Elusiveness is already viable, Dream Team used it last run and using in this one. Would be probably be OP is it got buffed, and I'm saying that as someone whose team would likely benefit greatly.

The issue isn't receivers getting open, it's more about the QB getting the ball to them when open. Nothing wrong with Ints/deflects when they're covered, but even when yards away from a defender wide open, QBs will throw into that zone wall and get picked/PD.

If there was a way to use Pass Awareness to add more lob to what should be an easy pass, that would be great, but not sure if that's possible. That way Agents would still have to invest in SP, and zones wouldn't be nerfed

I don't see how zone operates (Sack rate or Int rate) as a problem since it covers an area and the defender breaks on the ball when it comes into that area, how fast he does varies according to how quick, fast, and aware he is. I think a better solution would be to allow us to determine the check down order of QB targets and to give us more pass plays to work with. Ellix & Co. have suggested some good things in this regard. Route Elusiveness is costly and could use a slight reduction to get more people to use it and it wouldn't hurt Man defenses all that much considering its the gold standard and OP in the right hands.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
I don't see how zone operates (Sack rate or Int rate) as a problem since it covers an area and the defender breaks on the ball when it comes into that area, how fast he does varies according to how quick, fast, and aware he is. I think a better solution would be to allow us to determine the check down order of QB targets and to give us more pass plays to work with. Ellix & Co. have suggested some good things in this regard.

I don't think anyone has a problem with interceptions/deflects where the defender makes a good football play. But let's be real, there's a lot of cheese right now. Passes getting plucked from the air yards away from where the receiver is the issue. If that's to stay in then fine, but QBs need some sort of counter. Right now there isn't any.

As for sacks, TV is OP, we all know it. Pass Rush Power is incredibly cheap, and it works well even on LBs with not too much investment. For DLs you can see TV firing all at once on many top teams

Originally posted by

Route Elusiveness is costly and could use a slight reduction to get more people to use it and it wouldn't hurt Man defenses all that much considering its the gold standard and OP in the right hands.

I'm not sure what the issue with route elusiveness is. It works well, and has a SA that procs off it. And it only works on Man defenses.

Originally posted by BoDiddley

But let's be real, there's a lot of cheese right now. Passes getting plucked from the air yards away from where the receiver is the issue. If that's to stay in then fine, but QBs need some sort of counter. Right now there isn't any.

As for sacks, TV is OP, we all know it. Pass Rush Power is incredibly cheap, and it works well even on LBs with not too much investment. For DLs you can see TV firing all at once on many top teams


Sure let's be real about a game full of cheese...We use S*RB's who never get subbed who break asinine amounts of tackles, punts or FGs that never get blocked, Man having two SAs that deflect passes, same old play spam on offense and defense over and over, etc etc. TV isn't OP, it makes the rusher blind as bat for a trade off, that great star pass rusher will hit a QB and ignore a RB whose taking off to the edge. Have you seen SC all fire at once, because it can. We can just about make an argument about anything in the confines of this game.


Originally posted by BoDiddley

I'm not sure what the issue with route elusiveness is. It works well, and has a SA that procs off it. And it only works on Man defenses.

Its overcosted, not widely used (as is RT), and it doesn't matter that it only hurts Man because it would not hurt Man much at all. Man is OP especially against completion % with is various pass deflect SAs. In my only undefeated season in Vet I used Man to achieve it and I had no problem keeping a third or more of the teams I faced to 300 yards offense or less.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here... Sacks are not the issue in passing. The Issue is that timing routes don't exist and non-hook short routes are terrible (due to QB lead and general low run after the catch skills). You're equating "Short passing is bad" with "there's no way to deal with sacks"

"Short passing is the meta" - This is wrong. HOOK & GO's are the meta. Any in or out breaking route needs a great lead.

"Route Elusiveness is costly and could use a slight reduction to get more people to use it and it wouldn't hurt Man defenses all that much considering its the gold standard and OP in the right hands." - The cost is fine on it, it just needs to be more effective on short routes (ESPECIALLY IF THE DEFENSE IS IN MEDIUM OR LONG)

Originally posted by Adderfist
Sacks are not the issue in passing.

"Short passing is the meta" - This is wrong. HOOK & GO's are the meta. Any in or out breaking route needs a great lead.


Yup. It's that the Sack is faster than the QB brain. Or maybe Route Tech isn't giving enough of a boost to receivers.

On a Go route, my 100 Snap/ 50 Sprinting/98 Conditioning TE can go 10yards by Tick 28. That's fast enough for the QB to get the pass off before the Tick 30-32 Sack.

But somehow, my TE can't do a 5yd In and get an accurate pass and completion before a Tick 32 Sack. (Or it's an INT. )

That's the issue.

So what has to be buffed?

Originally posted by Xars
Yup. It's that the Sack is faster than the QB brain. Or maybe Route Tech isn't giving enough of a boost to receivers.

On a Go route, my 100 Snap/ 50 Sprinting TE can go 10yards by Tick 28. That's fast enough for the QB to get the pass off before the Tick 30-32 Sack.

But somehow, my TE can't do a 5yd In and get an accurate pass and completion before a Tick 32 Sack. (Or it's an INT. )

That's the issue.

So what has to be buffed?

My thoughts on buffing short routes are as follows:

* Inclusion of timing throws. Ball is thrown if the receiver is open or not, but ON TIME.

* Make bubble screens a timing throw and have it be fast. This would help against zones while being an outlet to deal with pressure.

* Pre-snap reads on uncovered WR's. If a player is uncovered they should be the first read on a play.

* Allow for CB's to make errors on their initial placement (they play further back with less speed). The key to a lot of under routes is the speed to make a CB turn their hips. If they're playing to far forward they'll turn their hips and you'll get a better cleaner break inside.

* Increase route elusiveness value for short passes, especially when the defense isn't playing 'short' value. I would also allow head fake to work against zone when the receiver is being covered by that zone man.

* Curl's should "seek" the dead spots in zones. - not sure how this would be done, but it would assist with many of the zone issues.
*.1 You could do the same thing for drag routes, slants and other short passes. "If QB sees zone & WR sees zone - WR slows down when uncovered"

* PLAYS- We need more offensive plays. Right now route combinations are not good. If I want to attack the sideline with a TE deep and have the WR run the streak? There's maybe one play.

The follow up - Clamping physical traits (gated by route tech) so players enter and exit zones at the right time.



Defensive Follow up - Allow Jam/Press by the CB- It would be contested by the WR. The loser of the Jam/Press loses balance and the CB/WR on a critical fail completely arrest the speed and acceleration (like a FB block stun). This further would increase the usefulness of route elusiveness.
(For CB) Intimidation/Coverage Tech/Toughness vs (For Receiver) Route Elusiveness/Toughness/Intimidation

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Sure let's be real about a game full of cheese...We use S*RB's who never get subbed who break asinine amounts of tackles, punts or FGs that never get blocked, Man having two SAs that deflect passes, same old play spam on offense and defense over and over, etc etc. TV isn't OP, it makes the rusher blind as bat for a trade off, that great star pass rusher will hit a QB and ignore a RB whose taking off to the edge. Have you seen SC all fire at once, because it can. We can just about make an argument about anything in the confines of this game.

Those are good examples of cheese that got addressed.

-During the powerback meta, Devs gave us Brick Wall as a counter.
-Do to how OP Spin Cycle was, Devs gave us Leverage as a counter.

Passes getting plucked out of the air by defenders who just happen to be in the path of the pass is cheese. Even still all that's needed is a counter like previous examples. Allow Pass Awareness investment to help avoid it, or buff a SA like TTN to help.

Good coverage should be rewarded, but QBs should also be able to hit an open receiver, yes?

Originally posted by

Its overcosted, not widely used (as is RT), and it doesn't matter that it only hurts Man because it would not hurt Man much at all. Man is OP especially against completion % with is various pass deflect SAs. In my only undefeated season in Vet I used Man to achieve it and I had no problem keeping a third or more of the teams I faced to 300 yards offense or less.

You'll have to explain how Man is OP, I think you're alone in that thought. And for all this talk of pass deflections, the number one player by far last season played on a zone defense.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/347601

I just don't get the benefit of buffing a relatively affordable skill like Route Elusiveness. Would be a field day for passing teams.

Originally posted by BoDiddley

Those are good examples of cheese that got addressed.

-During the powerback meta, Devs gave us Brick Wall as a counter.
-Do to how OP Spin Cycle was, Devs gave us Leverage as a counter.

Passes getting plucked out of the air by defenders who just happen to be in the path of the pass is cheese. Even still all that's needed is a counter like previous examples. Allow Pass Awareness investment to help avoid it, or buff a SA like TTN to help.

Good coverage should be rewarded, but QBs should also be able to hit an open receiver, yes?

We still have S*HBs breaking 40 tackles in a game (see Olympus), despite BW, etc. I still see QBs hit hit open receivers and I see them complete against covered and even double covered WRs. It's not like we don't have QB's completing 60+% of their passes on here. QB's got a passing arc added as well TTN too, there isn't a need for more buffing...if anything I think it's the opposite...they got too much love already in comparison to CBs for example.

Originally posted by BoDiddley

You'll have to explain how Man is OP, I think you're alone in that thought. And for all this talk of pass deflections, the number one player by far last season played on a zone defense.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/347601

I just don't get the benefit of buffing a relatively affordable skill like Route Elusiveness. Would be a field day for passing teams.

Both have advantages and disadvantages, but Man's stronger because it is more consistent. I gave up for less yards, had a better def comp %, etc with Man. If you think Zone is stronger atm, its because some of the better players have currently switched over.

Who's the best dot is irrelevant, there are great players of all types in the HoF. For example, the All-Time LB list has Robs zone LB from pre-nerf, then bhall's man blitzer, then Dredgar's man blitzer, then one of my team's zone lb, then one of my team's blitzers. The point is, its not necessarily the defense so much as whose running it.

As far as Route Elusiveness, it is not very affordable, but Route Tech is. Elusiveness would directly help WRs get open and might open up more guys to using HF which does fire against zone defenders. Route tech to 50 is roughly 5300 points, while Route Elusive to 50 is roughly 10,700 points. Instead of again harping on zone because it's popular atm, how about we look at something that has been long overdue to be reworked like RE. I think we all should agree on that simple buff.