Warrior General Games

Originally posted by BoDiddley
We're not even sure what Vader's power tackling SP was his rook/soph season. There's a clear boost up to 10 FFs in Seasoned, and he's now at 20 FFs with some games to go.

This season's increase is almost certainly due to weather, and not power tackling.


Originally posted by BoDiddley
Also not sure how many FFs come from assisted tackles.

A lot, so you can't cherry pick assist out of the analysis to make his LB look good.

Originally posted by bhall43
seems like an unrealistic amount of stuff is needed defensively to combat the explosion of the offensive combinations of speed/conditioning/power/toughness, conditioning/power/toughness, speed/elusiveness/conditioning/toughness, and a passing game to boot.

sure you can build your defense really fast and hope for the best, but you are going to be killed spending all that sp towards being fast enough by the power teams. a guy like deevee's back will wear your team out eventually with several broken tackles a play. Seems you need decent amounts of toughness/intimidation on your own side beyond the tackling skills and awareness levels as well.

The problem is that there is a core asymmetry between offense and defense. An offense gets to dictate play, and so a team can be built to min max one aspect. A defense doesn't, so it can't.

In the real world, you can't design custom players for your team. And a one dimensional team is predictable and play calling can shut it down.

Play calling isn't good enough in this game to cover the first thing. The only solution is to reduce the amount of customization available to offenses in this game.

Originally posted by Cuivienen
You realise we can see your players' stats, right? Why do you keep making blatantly incorrect claims.

He has forced 34 fumbles in 113 career games.

Geez...he hasn't had high power tackle in all 113 games. He just started getting high power tackle this season and he has 20 FFum in 23 games....and zero are vs QBs. They are against mainly HBs.

Originally posted by Cuivienen
So I just ran the numbers comparing my DT to your LB.

My DT has 45.5 sacks, 76 tackles, 104 assists and 6 FFum in his career. Divide the last number by the sum of the first three, and you get a FFum rate of 2.7% per impact with a player that didn't result in a broken tackle instead.

Your LB has 3.5 sacks, 585 tackles, 524 assists and 34 FFum in his career. Divide the last number by the sum of the first three, and you get a FFum rate of 3.1% per impact with a player that didn't result in a broken tackle instead.

My DT has 13 power tackling and 11 strip tech. What does your LB have there? Were all those SP worth a 0.4% higher FFum rate?

Maybe it is to you. It isn't to me.

Stop lumping all the seasons together dude. Your stat collection is ridiculously bias. Run the numbers on this season alone where Vader has high Power Tackling. Oh...and you also get 40 more sacks to try and get a FFum. How many of those FFum came from the 45.5 sacks?

Stop whining all the time dude.

This season, Vader has 20 FFum and 241.5 tackles/assists/sacks. That is 8.3%. So Vader causes a fumble against a NON-QB in roughly 1 out of every 12 tackles. That is pretty damn solid.

Originally posted by Cuivienen
Stop whining all the time dude.

I'll stop whining when you stop giving bad advice or sketchy data.

I'll start giving bad advice and sketchy data when you make it to Vet.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
This season, Vader has 20 FFum and 241.5 tackles/assists/sacks. That is 8.3%. So Vader causes a fumble against a NON-QB in roughly 1 out of every 12 tackles. That is pretty damn solid.

How many of those are against scrubs? How many in rain or heavy rain?

Originally posted by Cuivienen
This season's increase is almost certainly due to weather, and not power tackling.

A lot, so you can't cherry pick assist out of the analysis to make his LB look good.
Hey man, first I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to come down on you or anything. I like these kinds of conversations because they can really help us coaching/building wise.

According to the current season's stats using Stobie's tool, there's been no increase in the FF rate. So I don't think Vader's increase comes from weather, and much more likely power tackling. I've seen the same in my own and other players too. Your PuP test is interesting though and my guess is that CPU builds have more grip in general, so less FFs. Not to mention the lackluster defensive playcalling we see in pickup games. This is only a theory of course, so I'm going to roll a high conditioning/speed/power tackling defender for a PuP cycle. Really want to see how that build handles new breed powerbacks.

Originally posted by Cuivienen
This is a myth btw. True, power tackling is correlated with a very small increase in FFum, but not nearly enough to call it a function of power tackling. It's more like a small ancillary bonus, but a lot of people believe it is a core function of the skill.

It's like you didn't even read what I posted.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
This is only a theory of course, so I'm going to roll a high conditioning/speed/power tackling defender for a PuP cycle. Really want to see how that build handles new breed powerbacks.

Once he gets to Pro start signing him up to the daily 9pm est PUP Club games. You'll get one of my powerbacks for sure!

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
It's like you didn't even read what I posted.

wat

It's like I did read what you posted and responded directly to it, then you didn't read what I posted and made that claim hoping it was true.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
Hey man, first I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to come down on you or anything. I like these kinds of conversations because they can really help us coaching/building wise.

Don't worry about me. I'm not offended and I like these kinds of convos too, for the same reasons.


Originally posted by BoDiddley
According to the current season's stats using Stobie's tool, there's been no increase in the FF rate.

What? I just looked, and it is showing an 8% increase in FFum in Vet this season. And there are less CPU scrubs to play this season.


Originally posted by BoDiddley
So I don't think Vader's increase comes from weather, and much more likely power tackling. I've seen the same in my own and other players too.

Sure, if you can trust GE, who has a proven history of viewing his players through rose coloured glasses and highly fungible memory. Hell, he just posted a 15 yard pass as a top play, and he's not spamming - he honestly believes it is an amazing play.

Myself, I can't trust GE when he says he only invested in power tackling this season. His player has a marked increase in FFum this season, and the biggest change that happened this season was weather, and most of the bad weather games my players have played in have seen crazy high FFum. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that might be at least a part of what is happening here.

Other things change from season to season too. I don't know if GE's schedule is materially different this season than last, and I can't be bothered to spend the time to find out myself.

Point is, I can easily see this season is an outlier for his player, and I can easily see the changelog. I can't trust GE's opinion on what he has or has not done with the player. Just briefly glancing at the player, he had a 3 FFum game on day 6. If GE was only investing in power tackling this season, he still would have had low power tackling on day 6. So his own player disproves his theory since it looks like you don't need high power tackling to get 3 FFum in a game, if you can trust GE's memory and version of events of course. Which you can't. The other 3 FFum game was on day 28. He would have had time to get power tackling up by then, again, if we can trust him, but look, the weather for that game was rainy.


Originally posted by BoDiddley
Your PuP test is interesting though and my guess is that CPU builds have more grip in general, so less FFs. Not to mention the lackluster defensive playcalling we see in pickup games. This is only a theory of course, so I'm going to roll a high conditioning/speed/power tackling defender for a PuP cycle. Really want to see how that build handles new breed powerbacks.

Try an LB or a SS instead of a FS. That might produce better results. One of the reasons I went with FS is the high assist rates they get and I took Gold Opportunist to try to maximize FFum.

But yes, that is the nice thing about PUP testing. It presents a better control because you have random players instead of human built players where a meta might be effecting your results.

you guys can argue with cuiv all you want but we built an entire team (D'Hara) with extremely high strip tech and gold opp and didn't average more FF than other top teams