Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar


Honestly, I think you could just spam BI Pitch Right/Left/Counter and Trips Pitch Right/Weak/Counter all game and still beat everyone in our tier... and never scout anyone's team and just play a base defense and still win 99% of your games. Conditioning is just that OP, IMO. Even if I manage to get the score to where its not a total disaster as the 4th quarter hits, its like we just fall apart where your guys just hit the tracks running.

That might have been true when I won my league a couple seasons back. Now I can't do shit. All run team with 2 S* HB's. Conditioning only around 50. I'm all on board with the Conditioning is OP.

GE my HB's fumble all the time with Carry Grip at 70. I wonder if they had higher Condition if they would fumble less.

Will defenses that are high in conditioning be able to stop high conditioning offenses? If the answer is yes, then no, conditioning is not OP. It's a team design that takes advantage of those who neglected the skill.

Will defenses still not be able to stop running backs with high conditioning, even though they are built with high conditioning? Then yes, conditioning is OP and needs to be adjusted.

That sound like a fair statement?

Originally posted by GoGetta
Will defenses that are high in conditioning be able to stop high conditioning offenses? If the answer is yes, then no, conditioning is not OP. It's a team design that takes advantage of those who neglected the skill.

Will defenses still not be able to stop running backs with high conditioning, even though they are built with high conditioning? Then yes, conditioning is OP and needs to be adjusted.

That sound like a fair statement?

I'd agree, but the the problem is that while you can take a HB and get the 100/100/100 optimal build, you can not do it on defense and be effective or you gimp your player. There are too many skills you have spread points in on defense so its really unfair in that regards.

Originally posted by GoGetta
Will defenses that are high in conditioning be able to stop high conditioning offenses? If the answer is yes, then no, conditioning is not OP. It's a team design that takes advantage of those who neglected the skill.

Will defenses still not be able to stop running backs with high conditioning, even though they are built with high conditioning? Then yes, conditioning is OP and needs to be adjusted.

That sound like a fair statement?

Yes. Let it play out a little longer.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
I'd agree, but the the problem is that while you can take a HB and get the 100/100/100 optimal build, you can not do it on defense and be effective or you gimp your player. There are too many skills you have spread points in on defense so its really unfair in that regards.

Conditioning is a boost to all skills in the 3rd and 4th quarter. It's not a bad thing to have more conditioning on your players, and honestly it's not difficult to make a player with more conditioning without giving up much. I mean that in the sense that it's a comparative boost to your skills if your player has a higher energy level than the player they're facing off against. If you can create a big enough mis-match in energy it can make the interaction heavily one-sided. Early on in the 1st and 2nd quarter it's less impactful except during long plays as your player can keep up a higher level of performance for longer as their energy bar will decrease much slower than players with less conditioning.

Even for non S*'s you can make a good coverage LB with more conditioning and decent sprinting.
http://www.glb2scout.com/vpimages/239_NEW_1461798524.png

You could make an ILB MLB type with even less deflecting and footwork and focus on tackling pursuit and sprinting even more.
http://www.glb2scout.com/vpimages/239_NEW_1461799551.png

You can even make decent non S* generalist CB's with higher conditioning who can better handle HB's like this.
http://www.glb2scout.com/vpimages/239_NEW_1461798813.png

Ultimately there needs to be a massive shift in build policies across the board. People have been building dots who are almost exclusively pass focused on defense, and rushing teams take massive advantage of it. Any CB who isn't exclusively playing CB3 needs to have BRB up to at least 50 or so. Any LB who isn't intended as a coverage LB, or blitzing Lb needs 50+ BRB, and everyone needs 70 or so conditioning. S*'s at DB or Lb need 80+ conditioning as they'll probably be on the field for 100% of the D snaps.

I think a defense with well build generalist builds who don't ignore conditioning and BRB will be MUCH better off against HB's like this, and if you can shut them down for 1st and 2nd down and force them to pass or require them to rush for 10+ yards on 3rd down you'll expose these teams to the one-dimensionality of their offenses. It's only a meta for as long as defenses don't adjust to it.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
I'd agree, but the the problem is that while you can take a HB and get the 100/100/100 optimal build, you can not do it on defense and be effective or you gimp your player. There are too many skills you have spread points in on defense so its really unfair in that regards.

It sounds OP, definitely. I think Trogdor will end up being the closest to that out of the current crop of guys (I think he ends up 100 speed 94 conditioning 95 power). Hes hard enough to stop. But o don't know that any team journeyman and up (seasoned too I would bet) is designed to stop that, whereas there's teams lower down that are. Extreme teams like BSB, or more reasonable like Elements, with all the star power in the LBs. I guess I'll keep an open mind for now. I can see it become a problem, but I'm still not convinced there's any substantial evidence yet.

Now if they change the cost of conditioning and I get to be grandfathered in like you said, then heck yeah! =D

Also, when I say lack of evidence, I mean examples of where teams are built to stop high conditioning, not examples of conditioned players being powerful.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes

Ultimately there needs to be a massive shift in build policies across the board. People have been building dots who are almost exclusively pass focused on defense, and rushing teams take massive advantage of it. Any CB who isn't exclusively playing CB3 needs to have BRB up to at least 50 or so. Any LB who isn't intended as a coverage LB, or blitzing Lb needs 50+ BRB, and everyone needs 70 or so conditioning. S*'s at DB or Lb need 80+ conditioning as they'll probably be on the field for 100% of the D snaps.

I think a defense with well build generalist builds who don't ignore conditioning and BRB will be MUCH better off against HB's like this, and if you can shut them down for 1st and 2nd down and force them to pass or require them to rush for 10+ yards on 3rd down you'll expose these teams to the one-dimensionality of their offenses. It's only a meta for as long as defenses don't adjust to it.

My defense is basically what you described as a generalists build, except I was not aware of the conditioning meta when I designed it. When I do decide to reset, I will improve it with conditioning this time for sure. I just want to see my current team perform in vet and see how my other builds turn out despite knowing we don't really have a shot at the league.

Originally posted by GoGetta


Now if they change the cost of conditioning and I get to be grandfathered in like you said, then heck yeah! =D

I'd say it's a pretty sure bet your safe if it was to come to that. They didn't nerf any teams when it happened before so I see no reason for them to change how they do things.

Curious, is any other team using all their cap boosters on conditioning? At creation it wasn't the plan, but now I'd say 95% of teamwide boosts are going towards it.

I was but that was always the plan. Problem is that they all started so low to begin with.

Thats my problem, after boosting the caps we will still be too low

How low is too low? Are we talking 60, or 70?

My plan always was to cap conditioning. Finals will be 60-70ish.

Several of my builds were condition-cap setups as well. The plan was to hit 60.

When I calculated my team, I think we ended up averaging 66 or 67 average on O and just shy of 70 on D. Trogdor will end with 90, a few with 80+.