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Forum > Goal Line Blitz 2 > Counters
crazieveggie
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Originally posted by Rob.
I know this game is not on par with the NFL, but rushing shouldn't be getting more yards per attempt than passing.
Great post and very well put together.
My only question is that statement you made at the end. It is a pretty opinionated statement. This is a SIM where people like production. I'm sure Justin Houston would love to have 148 sacks in a year too. There also aren't any teams in the NFL that run the ball 100% of the time or pass the ball 100% of the time. (Or scores over 60 in a game) If counters were that crazy, then why wouldn't the all rushing teams be dominating everyone of those statistics? It is because it is impossible to stop a counter AND a pass play leading to an OP situation for teams that can do both on offense. I'm all for that too. I think balanced teams are in the best long term interest of the SIM.
I do agree counters on teams that can do both are WAAAYY OP, however the fix probably lies on the defensive side of the ball rather than nerfing something that isn't always OP. As I have said from the beginning, if a defense wants to sell out to stop a few plays, they should be able to do that and stop it.
The counter is totally stoppable when you know they are running the ball. Also remember a lot of the defenses shifted to stop the pass and build crazy pass defenses.
Just another subjective point of view.
now COUNTER
that....
Regardless what they do to fix, not fix, ignore.... Hopefully we know before 4 hours before the start of the next season.
I also want to add that when a CPU team or "Bad" team calls a bad defense, 80 yard runs to the house sort of skew the YPC statistics.
When a Bad defense is called against a pass, there aren't a lot of long touchdowns to skew those numbers.
I know this game is not on par with the NFL, but rushing shouldn't be getting more yards per attempt than passing.
Great post and very well put together.
My only question is that statement you made at the end. It is a pretty opinionated statement. This is a SIM where people like production. I'm sure Justin Houston would love to have 148 sacks in a year too. There also aren't any teams in the NFL that run the ball 100% of the time or pass the ball 100% of the time. (Or scores over 60 in a game) If counters were that crazy, then why wouldn't the all rushing teams be dominating everyone of those statistics? It is because it is impossible to stop a counter AND a pass play leading to an OP situation for teams that can do both on offense. I'm all for that too. I think balanced teams are in the best long term interest of the SIM.
I do agree counters on teams that can do both are WAAAYY OP, however the fix probably lies on the defensive side of the ball rather than nerfing something that isn't always OP. As I have said from the beginning, if a defense wants to sell out to stop a few plays, they should be able to do that and stop it.
The counter is totally stoppable when you know they are running the ball. Also remember a lot of the defenses shifted to stop the pass and build crazy pass defenses.
Just another subjective point of view.
now COUNTER
that.... Regardless what they do to fix, not fix, ignore.... Hopefully we know before 4 hours before the start of the next season.
I also want to add that when a CPU team or "Bad" team calls a bad defense, 80 yard runs to the house sort of skew the YPC statistics.
When a Bad defense is called against a pass, there aren't a lot of long touchdowns to skew those numbers.
Edited by crazieveggie on Dec 2, 2015 09:17:54
Rob.
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Originally posted by crazieveggie
I do agree counters on teams that can do both are WAAAYY OP, however the fix probably lies on the defensive side of the ball rather than nerfing something that isn't always OP. As I have said from the beginning, if a defense wants to sell out to stop a few plays, they should be able to do that and stop it.
Which is why I recommended just reducing the strength of counter fakes. Doesn't change any of the other running plays and brings them back a bit.
I do agree counters on teams that can do both are WAAAYY OP, however the fix probably lies on the defensive side of the ball rather than nerfing something that isn't always OP. As I have said from the beginning, if a defense wants to sell out to stop a few plays, they should be able to do that and stop it.
Which is why I recommended just reducing the strength of counter fakes. Doesn't change any of the other running plays and brings them back a bit.
BoDiddley
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Agree with crazieveggie. The problem lies on the defensive side of the ball and the real culprit is a lack of good defensive plays for balanced attacks.
A better solution might be to just expand player tactics. Maybe add a coverage tactic(aggressive, normal, conservative) that would help defenders not oversell on counters. Not saying it needs to be like GLB1, but IMO....having only Carry & Pass Rush Style as tactics is the root of most sim problems I see.
A better solution might be to just expand player tactics. Maybe add a coverage tactic(aggressive, normal, conservative) that would help defenders not oversell on counters. Not saying it needs to be like GLB1, but IMO....having only Carry & Pass Rush Style as tactics is the root of most sim problems I see.
MadCow420
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Originally posted by BoDiddley
Agree with crazieveggie. The problem lies on the defensive side of the ball and the real culprit is a lack of good defensive plays for balanced attacks.
A better solution might be to just expand player tactics. Maybe add a coverage tactic(aggressive, normal, conservative) that would help defenders not oversell on counters. Not saying it needs to be like GLB1, but IMO....having only Carry & Pass Rush Style as tactics is the root of most sim problems I see.
this might be a better option, but it is so much easier for GLB to just adjust the counter fake strength like rob was saying. It might not be the best fix, but it shouldn't be hard.
Agree with crazieveggie. The problem lies on the defensive side of the ball and the real culprit is a lack of good defensive plays for balanced attacks.
A better solution might be to just expand player tactics. Maybe add a coverage tactic(aggressive, normal, conservative) that would help defenders not oversell on counters. Not saying it needs to be like GLB1, but IMO....having only Carry & Pass Rush Style as tactics is the root of most sim problems I see.
this might be a better option, but it is so much easier for GLB to just adjust the counter fake strength like rob was saying. It might not be the best fix, but it shouldn't be hard.
Jagat0r
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Originally posted by MadCow420
this might be a better option, but it is so much easier for GLB to just adjust the counter fake strength like rob was saying. It might not be the best fix, but it shouldn't be hard.
But the easy fix may be the wrong fix. Kind of silly agents pump their defensive players full of pursuit, then complain when they overpursue. If they handcuff counters once again then they need to give offense a reverse or some other form of misdirection to combat that overpursuit.
this might be a better option, but it is so much easier for GLB to just adjust the counter fake strength like rob was saying. It might not be the best fix, but it shouldn't be hard.
But the easy fix may be the wrong fix. Kind of silly agents pump their defensive players full of pursuit, then complain when they overpursue. If they handcuff counters once again then they need to give offense a reverse or some other form of misdirection to combat that overpursuit.
Rob.
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Originally posted by Jagat0r
But the easy fix may be the wrong fix. Kind of silly agents pump their defensive players full of pursuit, then complain when they overpursue. If they handcuff counters once again then they need to give offense a reverse or some other form of misdirection to combat that overpursuit.
Pursuit isn't the problem. You think counters are strong because defensive players have too much pursuit? Little pursuit or a lot of pursuit, everyone gets faked out by the counters. That's why they work at all levels regardless of skills.
But the easy fix may be the wrong fix. Kind of silly agents pump their defensive players full of pursuit, then complain when they overpursue. If they handcuff counters once again then they need to give offense a reverse or some other form of misdirection to combat that overpursuit.
Pursuit isn't the problem. You think counters are strong because defensive players have too much pursuit? Little pursuit or a lot of pursuit, everyone gets faked out by the counters. That's why they work at all levels regardless of skills.
BoDiddley
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Originally posted by MadCow420
this might be a better option, but it is so much easier for GLB to just adjust the counter fake strength like rob was saying. It might not be the best fix, but it shouldn't be hard.
Perhaps, but I'm not sure counter fake strength is the only issue. HB speed, defensive AI, blocking, all play a key role too. Tactics are just sorely needed to make gameplan adjustments at this point.
But I have no idea how hard it would be to implement.
this might be a better option, but it is so much easier for GLB to just adjust the counter fake strength like rob was saying. It might not be the best fix, but it shouldn't be hard.
Perhaps, but I'm not sure counter fake strength is the only issue. HB speed, defensive AI, blocking, all play a key role too. Tactics are just sorely needed to make gameplan adjustments at this point.
But I have no idea how hard it would be to implement.
Edited by BoDiddley on Dec 2, 2015 09:53:32
MadCow420
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Originally posted by BoDiddley
Perhaps, but I'm not sure counter fake strength is the only issue. HB speed, defensive AI, blocking, all play a key role too. Tactics are just sorely needed to make gameplan adjustments at this point.
But I have no idea how hard it would be to implement.
I get that, that is alot of work for GLB. Making some % tweaks to the sim, appears to be a much more realistic 1st option for the fix. Not to mention they have played with the counter fake strength before, This doesnt seem to be the first time this plays were OP.
Perhaps, but I'm not sure counter fake strength is the only issue. HB speed, defensive AI, blocking, all play a key role too. Tactics are just sorely needed to make gameplan adjustments at this point.
But I have no idea how hard it would be to implement.
I get that, that is alot of work for GLB. Making some % tweaks to the sim, appears to be a much more realistic 1st option for the fix. Not to mention they have played with the counter fake strength before, This doesnt seem to be the first time this plays were OP.
mutleyddmc DTD
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Originally posted by Rob.
Pursuit isn't the problem. You think counters are strong because defensive players have too much pursuit? Little pursuit or a lot of pursuit, everyone gets faked out by the counters. That's why they work at all levels regardless of skills.
yeah this, i dont think having low pursuit is the answer to counters, im sure most of the guys in sophomore have low pursuit and Barry has made them look silly time and time again
Pursuit isn't the problem. You think counters are strong because defensive players have too much pursuit? Little pursuit or a lot of pursuit, everyone gets faked out by the counters. That's why they work at all levels regardless of skills.
yeah this, i dont think having low pursuit is the answer to counters, im sure most of the guys in sophomore have low pursuit and Barry has made them look silly time and time again
Absolut Zero
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Strength of counter fakes should dissipate the further a player is away from the line of scrimmage, and a run blitzer shouldn't bug out and go crazy against a counter. A Free Safety in Cover 1 shouldn't get faked as much as they are.
PhireHawk
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Originally posted by mutleyddmc DTD
yeah this, i dont think having low pursuit is the answer to counters, im sure most of the guys in sophomore have low pursuit and Barry has made them look silly time and time again
So has Monty
yeah this, i dont think having low pursuit is the answer to counters, im sure most of the guys in sophomore have low pursuit and Barry has made them look silly time and time again
So has Monty
crazieveggie
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Originally posted by Rob.
That's why they work at all levels regardless of skills.
When a team can run and pass...... I don't understand how something is OP when a 100% running team with blocking TE's and line etc. can't exploit the hell out of it then.
You can make the same argument that passing out of the 3 wide is still OP then I guess.
The 100% pass teams can't execute nearly as much this season because the defense can go for 100% just shutting down the pass. (And still only do that 50% of the time if they know EXACTLY what play is coming.) When the threat of the counter is there, the stats are also considerably up for Passers on teams that can run and pass... Like Morimoto on DA.
Belgarath YPA is pretty flat lined the last 4 seasons.
Morimoto YPA is up a whole yard this year.
That's why they work at all levels regardless of skills.
When a team can run and pass...... I don't understand how something is OP when a 100% running team with blocking TE's and line etc. can't exploit the hell out of it then.
You can make the same argument that passing out of the 3 wide is still OP then I guess.
The 100% pass teams can't execute nearly as much this season because the defense can go for 100% just shutting down the pass. (And still only do that 50% of the time if they know EXACTLY what play is coming.) When the threat of the counter is there, the stats are also considerably up for Passers on teams that can run and pass... Like Morimoto on DA.
Belgarath YPA is pretty flat lined the last 4 seasons.
Morimoto YPA is up a whole yard this year.
Cuivienen
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Originally posted by crazieveggie
When a team can run and pass...... I don't understand how something is OP when a 100% running team with blocking TE's and line etc. can't exploit the hell out of it then.
You can make the same argument that passing out of the 3 wide is still OP then I guess.
If a team only runs counters, you can run defenses that stop counters but are weak as hell against everything else.
You can't run defenses that are weak as hell against everything else against balanced teams.
It's been pretty clearly explained that the problem isn't counters themselves, it's that there aren't any options on defense to stop counters AND passing.
That doesn't mean anyone is advocating for a super defense that works against everything all the time. They just want an option to play against counters that isn't insta TD if you pass and they want an option to play against the pass that isn't insta TD if you run a counter.
It's like playing a game of paper rock scissors were your opponent can change his throw every round, but you are locked in to whatever you pick first.
When a team can run and pass...... I don't understand how something is OP when a 100% running team with blocking TE's and line etc. can't exploit the hell out of it then.
You can make the same argument that passing out of the 3 wide is still OP then I guess.
If a team only runs counters, you can run defenses that stop counters but are weak as hell against everything else.
You can't run defenses that are weak as hell against everything else against balanced teams.
It's been pretty clearly explained that the problem isn't counters themselves, it's that there aren't any options on defense to stop counters AND passing.
That doesn't mean anyone is advocating for a super defense that works against everything all the time. They just want an option to play against counters that isn't insta TD if you pass and they want an option to play against the pass that isn't insta TD if you run a counter.
It's like playing a game of paper rock scissors were your opponent can change his throw every round, but you are locked in to whatever you pick first.
MadCow420
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Originally posted by Cuivienen
If a team only runs counters, you can run defenses that stop counters but are weak as hell against everything else.
You can't run defenses that are weak as hell against everything else against balanced teams.
It's been pretty clearly explained that the problem isn't counters themselves, it's that there aren't any options on defense to stop counters AND passing.
That doesn't mean anyone is advocating for a super defense that works against everything all the time. They just want an option to play against counters that isn't insta TD if you pass and they want an option to play against the pass that isn't insta TD if you run a counter.
It's like playing a game of paper rock scissors were your opponent can change his throw every round, but you are locked in to whatever you pick first.
yea I think this has some truth to it
If a team only runs counters, you can run defenses that stop counters but are weak as hell against everything else.
You can't run defenses that are weak as hell against everything else against balanced teams.
It's been pretty clearly explained that the problem isn't counters themselves, it's that there aren't any options on defense to stop counters AND passing.
That doesn't mean anyone is advocating for a super defense that works against everything all the time. They just want an option to play against counters that isn't insta TD if you pass and they want an option to play against the pass that isn't insta TD if you run a counter.
It's like playing a game of paper rock scissors were your opponent can change his throw every round, but you are locked in to whatever you pick first.
yea I think this has some truth to it
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