Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
I am about the only agent who thinks quickness is one of the most important skills.

As Steve pointed out, you also have the worst pass D in all of rookie. Might be a correlation there.

Mutley and i use counters all day on Dallas (well when we both have time to GP anyway) these are probably way to OP'd for what a counter play truly is intended for. How often do you see counter plays even get 8 yards on any given play in real life? In real life they take too long to develop and defenses have time to adjust to the play and get back. But then again that is RL. what can you do?

Originally posted by FairForever
Why wouldn't I post blanket stats? If it was a one-off play then yes, there is significant variance. 69 playcalls would statistically be quite significant. It doesn't matter if there was a defender in the backfield every single play if they aren't able to make the tackle against a Tachylon-type HB.

Over the 3 games, DA posted 9.9 YPC on 69 attempts running the play. DA also passed for 8.0 Yards per Attempt and a 67% completion with 0 sacks in those three games (essentially, the plays you ran that "limited" DA to 9.9 YPC were not particularly effective against the pass either).



I know you are smarter than this, if a defender hits a RB with a clean shot and misses the tackle in teh backfield that has absolutely nothing to do with the play. DD is a Zone team running Man defenses, a lot of those completions are Head Fake related because no one on the team has any Man Awareness. That's the problem with blanket stats, it doesn't account for anything else.

Originally posted by Parab00n
I know you are smarter than this, if a defender hits a RB with a clean shot and misses the tackle in teh backfield that has absolutely nothing to do with the play. DD is a Zone team running Man defenses, a lot of those completions are Head Fake related because no one on the team has any Man Awareness. That's the problem with blanket stats, it doesn't account for anything else.

If a defender misses once in one play, that might have little do with the play. In higher tiers (J-Man to Vet) missing is pretty common. To the extent you are running defenses that only put one defender in a position to make a tackle you are asking for disaster. And that was evidenced in your scrims that you showed.

You can't turn around and say "look! The plays worked - except they still allowed 9.9 YPC." That is still a failed experiment (at least at the Vet level - I would imagine that there is a possibility that some of the plays you selected would be more successful in rookie or sophomore).

4th Scrim - This one got ugly late, but for the most part was a competitive game despite DA completely shutting down counters and 3 WR passing.


DD managed 4.3 YPC on 24 attempts of Trips Counter.

DD managed a completion rate of 44% on TE Post and WR Hook on 41 attempts.




DA managed 10.6 YPC on 26 attempts of Trips Counter, mostly due to broken tackles. I also added in Under Sam Blitz on DD and it failed miserably, my LBs weren't fast enough to get through the LOS in time to disrupt the Counter like a lot of people have had success with. So if you have slow LBs, don't run this play. It gave up over 18 YPC on 5 attempts.

DA managed a 50% completion rate on 34 attempts of TE Post and WR Hook, something any defense can live with.

Originally posted by FairForever
If a defender misses once in one play, that might have little do with the play. In higher tiers (J-Man to Vet) missing is pretty common. To the extent you are running defenses that only put one defender in a position to make a tackle you are asking for disaster. And that was evidenced in your scrims that you showed.

You can't turn around and say "look! The plays worked - except they still allowed 9.9 YPC." That is still a failed experiment (at least at the Vet level - I would imagine that there is a possibility that some of the plays you selected would be more successful in rookie or sophomore).



If you can consistently put a defender in position to have a TFL and that player fails that's not a play issue.

Originally posted by Parab00n
Do you really want your defenders running to the LOS before they can pass a Blitz Awareness check?

Absolutely. As of right now, run blitzing is dead. Run blitzing a corner is an utter disaster, it does far more harm than good.

Originally posted by Parab00n
How silly is it going to look to blitz your FS/SS and have them run past the RB because it's hard coded that they go to the LOS?

Never thought about Safety blitzes, because I just never do them anymore. So that's a good point. Had a S* SS that I used to safety blitz, worked great Rookie through maybe JMan, but in Pro Vet too often it failed. That said, there can easily be something pre-snap to account for that. Proximity to LoS. If they're lined up too far off, normal blitz awareness checks happen, if they're lined up on the LoS, then they should pass the LoS before doing a blitz awareness check.


Originally posted by Parab00n
Aside from that, Blitzing has to have a downside. It can't be the best against Inside Runs, Outside Runs, and Passing.

It absolutely has downsides. No blitzing play can handle all 3 of those things, nor should it. Over Will is not good against all 3. Run blitzing a corner should be strong against runs towards the run blitz and weak against runs away from it.

This is one of the plays I was hoping to use to contain outside rushes while not being utterly terrible (but probably still bad) against the pass:

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/224565/1886750

MLB is shifted over the strongside B gap. CB4 is blitzing out wide. This would get nice gains from inside runs to the A gap, weakside B gap. Here in this alignment I have a coverage focused SS in man on the TE, balanced DE's to the left, run stuffer DE to the right, balanced DT and a pass rushing DT.

My completion % allowed would be far higher than my normal pass defense, but if I can stuff enough of the Counters, it'd be worth it. That's what I thought going in.

Only problem is that the corner abandons outside contain and comes so far inside that the MLB gets stuck on that block. Run blitzing corners against Counters is just about the worst thing you can do. Which is baffling, because in real life it's the opposite.

Originally posted by Parab00n
If you can consistently put a defender in position to have a TFL and that player fails that's not a play issue.

But maybe it is, if it is pervasively happening in every game. I was saying that as a hypothetical of course. Obviously, the best way to sort this out would be to have two other teams run this experiment. If Virgins/PORN/Bloody want to run this experiment with No Name, I'd be down for that. I would bet that the results would be similar. At the end of the day, I've been picking D plays for 4 seasons based on the YPC and YPA they allow, and it's pretty much gotten me to where I am today.

At the end of the day, to summarize the four scrims:

SB Trips HB Counter Strong averaged 10.1 YPC for DA on 95 attempts.
7.6 YPA and 63% completion on 162 passes (YPA would be even higher except WR Hook was called a very high number of times, while the consistently much more successful TE Drive/Post/Trips WR Posts plays were called much less).

Originally posted by Corndog
Maybe pursuit isn't a lolskill?

My blitzing corner has 72 blitz awareness and 84 pursuit, so that's not the problem.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
My blitzing corner has 72 blitz awareness and 84 pursuit, so that's not the problem.

Not 100/100 so invalid argument.

/sarcasm

Originally posted by FairForever
On the flip side No Name averaged 10.8 YPC using the play against Hawaii, a team a tier above. I guess your team isn't very good

Originally posted by o The Boss x
throwing out a 2 Man Press, 335 man base, or over will mike blitz like I assume was thrown out there should be able to be ran against efficiently.

I wish I was around to see we were playing that matchup. Go fold bud.

Last scrim of DD/DA for the day, max of 5 sadly.


DD with a 3.4 YPC on 21 attempts of Trips Counter

DD with a 35% completion rate of WR Hook and TE Post.


DA with a 8.2 YPC on 27 attempts of Trips Counter.

DA with a 70% completion rate of WR Hook and TE Post.

**Something of note, WR Hook is called 24 more times than TE Post although they both are 5 Starred for DA. For DD, WR Hook is called 20 more times than TE Post. I thought possibly that the sim moved towards the higher completion option, but thats not the case. Both DD and DA completed TE post more often than WR Hook.


I won't bother compiling all of DA's defensive stats, because I clearly showed that with a well built defense running the correct plays you can slow down or even completely shut down Trips Counter. Now, I'll concentrate on DA or more specifically the one player who is causing all these tears. Thanks a lot Sov!

Originally posted by o The Boss x
I wish I was around to see we were playing that matchup. Go fold bud.

You talk a lot of trash for someone who has 0 league trophies and 1 ladder trophy on EEA 2.0.

Also decided to scout EEA 2.0 - last 5 games...

Trips HB Counter Strong averaged 11.8 YPC. Looks like without the play EEA would be even worse off.

Originally posted by FairForever
Trips HB Counter Strong averaged 11.8 YPC. Looks like without the play EEA would be even worse off.

Considering the fact we primarily pass out of 3WR, I would hope a run out of it would work.

and I literally haven't posted on the forums pretty much all season until now, so not sure how much trash I've really talked lol

Originally posted by Parab00n

Why can't 99% of teams not run a Zone play? I've already showed you that Zone Awareness isn't super important? Pump Fake works just as well on guys with 13 ZA as it does on guys with 75. The big advantage all these man defenses will have running zone is that Head Fake will be a lot less effective against you.

I did run a Zone play.

Originally posted by Xars
But why are my defenders so far out of position against a Strong Side Counter when I ran a Strong Side Blitz with Outside Contain?

We can talk all day about Counters, but I still haven't heard a good reason why my LI LB was 30 yards away from the Zone he was supposed to defend.

Maybe the CB2 needs to break off his Blitz. I don't think that should happen right away, but whatever.

But if we're going to bitch about Pass Defense when CB3 is 1-3 yards at most away from WR3 on TE Drive, surely someone can explain why a LB that's 30 yards away from his assigned spot makes sense.

Some positioning has to actually happen. It can't all be negated the moment the play starts. Otherwise what's the point of any play.

I ran a Zone play and most of my Defenders weren't close to where they were supposed to be. With Man assignments, I'd expect them to flow with the play and get torched by the Counter. But with Zone?