Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Deathblade

Originally posted by Catullus 16

it is a great point.
however, it's not out of the question for new users to expect that a league forum will behave according to the rules that everyone agreed to.
moreover, when a well-intentioned person happens to make an innocent post, i do feel empathy towards them when they're suddenly flamed by a dozen people for several pages. why wouldn't they get upset? why wouldn't they respond in kind? why wouldn't they start pointing to the rules, especially when (in their perception) the mods aren't upholding them?
this frequent scenario really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
Again...rules are upheld just as much as they are in other forums. The only one that might not be is personal attacks, which is purely subjective, and relies 100% on the individuals threshold. Some people get offended and pissed if someone calls them a turd. Other people, you can talk about fucking their cousin while simultaneously telling them to go fuck a goat...and they send another pic of their cousin in response.

Where do you put the personal attack line? Ban for anything that could be negative about a person? You will always have people that have a smaller threshold than other people, so unless you put it at the bare minimum, then someone will get offended at some point. And asking for it to be the bare minimum is pretty fucking ridiculous.

As for people getting insulted for many pages in their innocent thread...it is usually along the lines of "loldots", and "when will you gut?". It's usually not "I'm going to fuck your mom".

i agree that it's subjective... and it would be a fool's game to try and specify a line.

but can we agree that the main reason why the CPL seems more prone to this complaint is because of the sheer volume of those sorts of responses?

while it's easy for individual CPLers to point to the fact that they personally didn't say anything that far out of line, the perception for the "victim" is of the aggregate. this is why i mentioned earlier about the asymmetry that seems to be in play here.

i mean, let's be honest -- when the CPL decides to mock someone, they're not particularly gentle. frankly, this is one of CPL's strong suits... reducing people (especially assholes) into quivering mounds of impotent rage. well okay, that can be a good skill at times (especially when dealing with assholes), but you've got to admit that there have been some innocents that have gotten into your crosshairs... and when they get pissed off (who wouldn't?) that doesn't justify their maltreatment post hoc.

even people new to the internet can usually handle one opponent... but the CPL is a blitzkrieg that i'm not sure anyone can really handle.

but when is this blitzkrieg unleashed upons omeone who was not acting in an inflammatory manner? At least in the last 4 months.

Originally posted by r87
Also, let's keep this in mind: the sheer activity level of CPL makes it seem like there ought to be more new users than there really are each season. The VAST majority of users don't even post in team forums, much less the league forum.

So it's not like CPL is driving away this goldmine of new forum activity.

a GG subforum would quite obviously be dead... and that would be a feather in the CPL's cap.

but the quantity of activity really isn't the complaint here... for some, it's about the quality of that activity. i'm guessing the GG-crowd (let's just call them that) would prefer a dead forum to the CPL-esque forum.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Catullus 16

take a look at even recent episodes like with FLgators (or whatever) or roctronic (or whatever). i don't know all the details, but do you honestly think that NVM and drksandman showed up because they had nothing better to do?

FLgators' first post in CPL was calling everyone childish and immature.

Rocktronic's first post was saying he is making a PF because the forum is shit.

Do they really expect a pleasant response?

I think of it as me walking into your neighborhood and saying all your houses look like shit and you're living a joke. Everyone come to my private development.

Now ho do the native to the neighborhood react? I for one would be a little resentful.

Then to run of to the mayor and say those troglodytes of the neighborhood called me mean things and should be punished!

Is that right? Hell no. Play nicely or expect someone to shit on your table.



neighborhood = CPL
Private Development = Roctronic's PF
mayor = Pallow or outside mods
Shit on your table = Old post in mod forum by asheme

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
qfsol
Intentional tbh.

Smile out loud.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Catullus 16
(note that i'm very much playing devil's advocate, since there's no one else to speak for the opposition in this PF.)
Pretty sure that we actually need to know what the "opposition" wants.
Do they want it solely GG dotball talk, and any negativity gets banned? Bans for poor sportsmanship? I've actually seen people complain about bad dotsmanship. How do you force the community to suddenly start caring, and only be positive about the dots?
As for segregating the forums, that just ends up with one being dead and/or being trolled, and the other one, the "real CPL", dying off.
good point.
my guess is that they don't just want 100% dotball talk... and they even want some good natured smack talk from time to time. i think the main issue here is that the so-called opposition just simply doesn't feel safe posting in the CPL currently. in their perception, they'll just get flamed with incessant inside jokes no matter what they do... so at first they get angry, then they try to reason, then they appeal to authority, then they create alternatives, and then they give up.
i see segregation as the only way to stop that treadmill... and while the GG forum might be dead, i certainly don't see it getting trolled for long (universal forum rules would apply, right?). further, the "real CPL" certainly wouldn't die off... my entire point here is to find a way to achieve the segregation without that ever happening.
You can't hold CPL responsible for the perception of people. If they don't actually get attacked then it's their fault if they don't feel safe.
NOW STOP IGNORING MY POSTS DICK

but i'm not talking about those people. i'm talking about the once-burned-twice-shy crowd.

i'm a half-dozen pages behind at this point... cut me a break.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by Catullus 16
(universal forum rules would apply, right?)
You can certainly troll without getting banned. You have even said you are trolling this thread, "devil's advocate" etc etc.

uh... devil's advocate =///////////////////= trolling

and yes, you can troll without getting banned. you can break almost any rule without getting banned, if you don't get caught.

still against the rules, though.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Azure Dreams
The fact taht they don't like the general feel in the community doesn't mean they're part of a different community. You don't have to like your neighbor for him to be in your community.
we seem to have differing definitions of "community" here.
for starters, i'd say that neighborhood =/= community
# a group of people living in a particular local area; "the team is drawn from all parts of the community"
# common ownership; "they shared a community of possessions"
# a group of nations having common interests; "they hoped to join the NATO community"
# agreement as to goals; "the preachers and the bootleggers found they had a community of interests"
# residential district: a district where people live; occupied primarily by private residences
# (ecology) a group of interdependent organisms inhabiting the same region and interacting with each other
the first, second, fifth, and sort of sixth all fit my definition.

oh good lord. not the patented "argument by definition" approach.

besides, i'm obviously using "community" in the third sense... so if you want to understand my point, start there.

or call it 2395 if you want. i'm saying there's a single league, but not a single 2395. and since the 2395s will never get along, it's best to separate them to prevent further problems.

oh lord, i missed a lot

someone already made a neighborhood comparison?!?!?

Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by r87

Also, let's keep this in mind: the sheer activity level of CPL makes it seem like there ought to be more new users than there really are each season. The VAST majority of users don't even post in team forums, much less the league forum.

So it's not like CPL is driving away this goldmine of new forum activity.

a GG subforum would quite obviously be dead... and that would be a feather in the CPL's cap.

but the quantity of activity really isn't the complaint here... for some, it's about the quality of that activity. i'm guessing the GG-crowd (let's just call them that) would prefer a dead forum to the CPL-esque forum.

Well I don't mean a forum where you can only say GG and shit.

Like, take SEAPL and make it our subforum. That's what I mean by this new subforum. Essentially a regular dotball talk forum where trolling would be discouraged by CPL mods, and CPL mods only.

I agree it would be a graveyard, but hey...some people think such places are fun.

Originally posted by Chessey
oh lord, i missed a lot

someone already made a neighborhood comparison?!?!?
You were much more thorouhoughoruohgouhggh, m'dear.

Originally posted by r87
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by r87
If you move into a retirement home you can't go throwing parties at 3am. The old people will get annoyed and kill you in your sleep.
seems like you're agreeing with me here.
Except in this case the old people are untouchable and feudel.
And the parties at 3am are GG threads.

sheesh... not even nursing homes like GG threads.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Asheme
Originally posted by Catullus 16
you may consider them insane, but they have similar views about you guys... so how do we decide who's right?
possession may be nine points of the law, but that doesn't mean that they don't actually have equal say here.
Right, well, trust is necessary for any relationship, Cat, and I would like to be your woman.
Of course they're entitled to their equal say, but their perceptions are (generally) based on two things: one, they believe the internet is a real place and, two, they're unilaterally afraid of people who don't believe that. That, of course, makes them insane.
ha, okay... but this is indeed a business. so ultimately, it's up to bort to dictate how the forums should operate.
personally, i'm not sure that GLB is the best venue for some tough-love education of what the wild west of the internet is all about... else, why would we have forum rules in the first place? and frankly, i'm not sure that honing your internet skills is really even good practice for humans in general (the internet ain't real, remember?), but that's a separate discussion.
at a minimum, i hope there's at least some empathy for the poor neophyte who doesn't have that much internet experience and just wants to enjoy the game they're paying for. i'm not sure it does them any favors to ruin their day... nor should that even be their fault.
I'M GOING TO FUCK YOUR EYE SOCKETS
please provide support to these scenarios you keep mentioning.

for free?

and i think i got this answered back in the future.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Actually, a lot of the mods don't disagree. But a lot of the mods don't feel bound by the actual rules. They feel free to invent their own.
but i'm specifically talking about the mods that come in here and piss you guys off.
they're convinced they're just doing their job, right?
lmfao no, not at all. Most of the time they're trolling users they dislike.

if you say so.

i'm obviously not in the CPL as much as you guys, so i have a lot less first-hand experience. all i'm saying is that from my perspective, i honestly don't think those mods are on a witch-hunt...

Originally posted by Asheme
Originally posted by Azure Dreams

qfsol
Intentional tbh.

Smile out loud.


i know, it was a qf not a qfmistake

Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Azure Dreams

Originally posted by Catullus 16

Originally posted by Azure Dreams

Actually, a lot of the mods don't disagree. But a lot of the mods don't feel bound by the actual rules. They feel free to invent their own.
but i'm specifically talking about the mods that come in here and piss you guys off.
they're convinced they're just doing their job, right?
lmfao no, not at all. Most of the time they're trolling users they dislike.

if you say so.

i'm obviously not in the CPL as much as you guys, so i have a lot less first-hand experience. all i'm saying is that from my perspective, i honestly don't think those mods are on a witch-hunt...

They aren't always. Last night they were.