yeh but an in depth report before game 13 is necessary....
ryan_grant-25
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ill get on it... first i need some kool aid to get me pumped up.... "man, ask him if he gots some kool aid" "im serious bout that kool aid yo" (Harold and Kumar)
getmoreho
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some play by play analysis of the difference in overall scores per common opponents would be a crucial commentary to the overall enjoyment of the thread you produce.
invertigo22
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Originally posted by mrkapone187
GM's played a big role in both i think, look at dungy he was a dc for years with the vikings and when he went to tampa recruited heavily on the defensive side of the ball. now i agree that defense wins games but offense has to get you there, right? so then he goes to indy where they already had the triplets on "o" and couldn't compete because they hed no "d". dungy's recruiting on "d" + what they already had on offense = Dungy (85-27) at Indy, 5 Division Titles, 1 Super Bowl (7-6 playoffs)
just my thoughts
Nice, I was just on a thread somewhere else commenting on most overrated coaches. I have settled upon Dungy. I think that his offense carried his reputation. Dungy was a defensive oriented coach due to his background, but the Colts had a mediocre defense most of his time there. The one time they were really great was the Super Bowl year. And even then, look how many points they gave up to the Pats in the AFC Championship game. I am pretty sure when you have PM at quarterback, most anyone could succeed. The guy basically calls his own plays... For me to really feel like Dungy was a great coach, they would have had to stomp people on defense as well as have that potent offense he inherited.
GM's played a big role in both i think, look at dungy he was a dc for years with the vikings and when he went to tampa recruited heavily on the defensive side of the ball. now i agree that defense wins games but offense has to get you there, right? so then he goes to indy where they already had the triplets on "o" and couldn't compete because they hed no "d". dungy's recruiting on "d" + what they already had on offense = Dungy (85-27) at Indy, 5 Division Titles, 1 Super Bowl (7-6 playoffs)
just my thoughts
Nice, I was just on a thread somewhere else commenting on most overrated coaches. I have settled upon Dungy. I think that his offense carried his reputation. Dungy was a defensive oriented coach due to his background, but the Colts had a mediocre defense most of his time there. The one time they were really great was the Super Bowl year. And even then, look how many points they gave up to the Pats in the AFC Championship game. I am pretty sure when you have PM at quarterback, most anyone could succeed. The guy basically calls his own plays... For me to really feel like Dungy was a great coach, they would have had to stomp people on defense as well as have that potent offense he inherited.
mrkapone187
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so true, on coaches who inherit great team like again look at barry switzer, who really won that superbowl barry or jimmy?
getmoreho
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jimmy was only person able to tell jerry jones to eat poo... hence reason cowboys have great to best talent and dont make playoffs...
Ts-Rock
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Originally posted by mrkapone187
so true, on coaches who inherit great team like again look at barry switzer, who really won that superbowl barry or jimmy?
I agree he won that Super Bowl with JJ team, but it was two years after JJ retired that he won and he went 45–26 as a NFL head coach. That's better than Gruden and a lot of other HC. I have always said that Barry Switzer was on of the most overrated coaches, but after looking up the #s I think I have to take that back.
so true, on coaches who inherit great team like again look at barry switzer, who really won that superbowl barry or jimmy?
I agree he won that Super Bowl with JJ team, but it was two years after JJ retired that he won and he went 45–26 as a NFL head coach. That's better than Gruden and a lot of other HC. I have always said that Barry Switzer was on of the most overrated coaches, but after looking up the #s I think I have to take that back.
Ts-Rock
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Originally posted by invertigo22
Nice, I was just on a thread somewhere else commenting on most overrated coaches. I have settled upon Dungy. I think that his offense carried his reputation. Dungy was a defensive oriented coach due to his background, but the Colts had a mediocre defense most of his time there. The one time they were really great was the Super Bowl year. And even then, look how many points they gave up to the Pats in the AFC Championship game. I am pretty sure when you have PM at quarterback, most anyone could succeed. The guy basically calls his own plays... For me to really feel like Dungy was a great coach, they would have had to stomp people on defense as well as have that potent offense he inherited.
Colts under Jim Mora:
1998: 3-13 - Peyton/(rookie)/Harrison/Faulk
1999: 13-3 - Peyton/Harrison/James (rookie) - Titans beat them in 1st round
2000: 10-6 - Peyton/Harrison/James - started 6-2, wildcard team, lost to Dolphins
2001: 6-10 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne (rookie) - finished 2-7
Colts under Tony Dungy
2002: 10-6 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - Wildcard, lost first round
2003: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost in AFC Conf Champ to Pats
2004: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost in Div round to pats
2005: 14-2 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost to steelers in Div round
2006: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai (rookie)/Wayne - Won division, defeated Bears to win Super Bowl
2007: 13-3 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai/Wayne -won division, lost to Chargers in Div round
2008: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai/Wayne - wild card, lost to chargers in WC round
I would say that Tony Dungy and Bill Polian turn that franchise around. It was Dungy that drafted and brought in the def players, but it was also him who took them to the next level. I can see you saying that Dungy isn't the best coach, but I can't understand how anyone could say he is the most overrated. That would go to Shannan, Gruden, Any Dallas coach not named Landry or Jonhson, Norv Turner, Billeck (Bal), but not Dungy
Nice, I was just on a thread somewhere else commenting on most overrated coaches. I have settled upon Dungy. I think that his offense carried his reputation. Dungy was a defensive oriented coach due to his background, but the Colts had a mediocre defense most of his time there. The one time they were really great was the Super Bowl year. And even then, look how many points they gave up to the Pats in the AFC Championship game. I am pretty sure when you have PM at quarterback, most anyone could succeed. The guy basically calls his own plays... For me to really feel like Dungy was a great coach, they would have had to stomp people on defense as well as have that potent offense he inherited.
Colts under Jim Mora:
1998: 3-13 - Peyton/(rookie)/Harrison/Faulk
1999: 13-3 - Peyton/Harrison/James (rookie) - Titans beat them in 1st round
2000: 10-6 - Peyton/Harrison/James - started 6-2, wildcard team, lost to Dolphins
2001: 6-10 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne (rookie) - finished 2-7
Colts under Tony Dungy
2002: 10-6 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - Wildcard, lost first round
2003: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost in AFC Conf Champ to Pats
2004: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost in Div round to pats
2005: 14-2 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost to steelers in Div round
2006: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai (rookie)/Wayne - Won division, defeated Bears to win Super Bowl
2007: 13-3 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai/Wayne -won division, lost to Chargers in Div round
2008: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai/Wayne - wild card, lost to chargers in WC round
I would say that Tony Dungy and Bill Polian turn that franchise around. It was Dungy that drafted and brought in the def players, but it was also him who took them to the next level. I can see you saying that Dungy isn't the best coach, but I can't understand how anyone could say he is the most overrated. That would go to Shannan, Gruden, Any Dallas coach not named Landry or Jonhson, Norv Turner, Billeck (Bal), but not Dungy
invertigo22
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Originally posted by Ts-Rock
Originally posted by invertigo22
Nice, I was just on a thread somewhere else commenting on most overrated coaches. I have settled upon Dungy. I think that his offense carried his reputation. Dungy was a defensive oriented coach due to his background, but the Colts had a mediocre defense most of his time there. The one time they were really great was the Super Bowl year. And even then, look how many points they gave up to the Pats in the AFC Championship game. I am pretty sure when you have PM at quarterback, most anyone could succeed. The guy basically calls his own plays... For me to really feel like Dungy was a great coach, they would have had to stomp people on defense as well as have that potent offense he inherited.
Colts under Jim Mora:
1998: 3-13 - Peyton/(rookie)/Harrison/Faulk
1999: 13-3 - Peyton/Harrison/James (rookie) - Titans beat them in 1st round
2000: 10-6 - Peyton/Harrison/James - started 6-2, wildcard team, lost to Dolphins
2001: 6-10 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne (rookie) - finished 2-7
Colts under Tony Dungy
2002: 10-6 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - Wildcard, lost first round
2003: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost in AFC Conf Champ to Pats
2004: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost in Div round to pats
2005: 14-2 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost to steelers in Div round
2006: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai (rookie)/Wayne - Won division, defeated Bears to win Super Bowl
2007: 13-3 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai/Wayne -won division, lost to Chargers in Div round
2008: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai/Wayne - wild card, lost to chargers in WC round
I would say that Tony Dungy and Bill Polian turn that franchise around. It was Dungy that drafted and brought in the def players, but it was also him who took them to the next level. I can see you saying that Dungy isn't the best coach, but I can't understand how anyone could say he is the most overrated. That would go to Shannan, Gruden, Any Dallas coach not named Landry or Jonhson, Norv Turner, Billeck (Bal), but not Dungy
For a second, I thought I read Billeck as Bellichik. I damn near went off! Don't get me wrong, I LOATH the Patriots (Dolphins fan through the tough times), but that man can coach.
Hmm, the actual breakdown is pretty telling I must say. For some of the coaches on there, I wouldn't call them overrated because they haven't actually done much; Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, etc. Gruden is iffy. If expectations were extraordinarily high for him, I would agree. Shannahan won two Super Bowls, albeit on the back of John Elway. Definitely in the running. Billeck I don't know enough about.
The reasoning behind Dungy is that people hold him up as this legendary coach. I think with the offense he has had for his 8 years, sprinkling on a little defense and they would have been a juggernaut. Disgusting to hear how he started the "black head coach trend". Not in as many words, but that is the idea.
Look at Tomlin... Inherits an AMAZING defense, leaves it completely alone, puts together a patchwork offense which wouldn't work without Rothesberger (sp), and is god?! If you watched the AFC championship game, Ben saved that game by avoiding about 20 sacks. Put a less elusive QB in there and you lose. Come to think of it, maybe Tomlin deserves that title? Take his DC away and see what happens.
Perhaps you are right TS. It is a very hard idea to judge, considering Coordinators can make or break teams. Like Tomlin, he has little to nothing to do with the defensive side of the ball. Does that make him a bad coach? Not really. Maybe the best coaches find people who can do each aspect better than himself, so the sum of all parts is greater than the whole.
I will go with Gruden though. He did win a Super Bowl and leave the Raider's team that he beat in the Super Bowl, but other than that, mediocre.
Wow, people can actually look at arguments and change their minds... Wild!
Originally posted by invertigo22
Nice, I was just on a thread somewhere else commenting on most overrated coaches. I have settled upon Dungy. I think that his offense carried his reputation. Dungy was a defensive oriented coach due to his background, but the Colts had a mediocre defense most of his time there. The one time they were really great was the Super Bowl year. And even then, look how many points they gave up to the Pats in the AFC Championship game. I am pretty sure when you have PM at quarterback, most anyone could succeed. The guy basically calls his own plays... For me to really feel like Dungy was a great coach, they would have had to stomp people on defense as well as have that potent offense he inherited.
Colts under Jim Mora:
1998: 3-13 - Peyton/(rookie)/Harrison/Faulk
1999: 13-3 - Peyton/Harrison/James (rookie) - Titans beat them in 1st round
2000: 10-6 - Peyton/Harrison/James - started 6-2, wildcard team, lost to Dolphins
2001: 6-10 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne (rookie) - finished 2-7
Colts under Tony Dungy
2002: 10-6 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - Wildcard, lost first round
2003: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost in AFC Conf Champ to Pats
2004: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost in Div round to pats
2005: 14-2 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost to steelers in Div round
2006: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai (rookie)/Wayne - Won division, defeated Bears to win Super Bowl
2007: 13-3 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai/Wayne -won division, lost to Chargers in Div round
2008: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai/Wayne - wild card, lost to chargers in WC round
I would say that Tony Dungy and Bill Polian turn that franchise around. It was Dungy that drafted and brought in the def players, but it was also him who took them to the next level. I can see you saying that Dungy isn't the best coach, but I can't understand how anyone could say he is the most overrated. That would go to Shannan, Gruden, Any Dallas coach not named Landry or Jonhson, Norv Turner, Billeck (Bal), but not Dungy
For a second, I thought I read Billeck as Bellichik. I damn near went off! Don't get me wrong, I LOATH the Patriots (Dolphins fan through the tough times), but that man can coach.
Hmm, the actual breakdown is pretty telling I must say. For some of the coaches on there, I wouldn't call them overrated because they haven't actually done much; Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, etc. Gruden is iffy. If expectations were extraordinarily high for him, I would agree. Shannahan won two Super Bowls, albeit on the back of John Elway. Definitely in the running. Billeck I don't know enough about.
The reasoning behind Dungy is that people hold him up as this legendary coach. I think with the offense he has had for his 8 years, sprinkling on a little defense and they would have been a juggernaut. Disgusting to hear how he started the "black head coach trend". Not in as many words, but that is the idea.
Look at Tomlin... Inherits an AMAZING defense, leaves it completely alone, puts together a patchwork offense which wouldn't work without Rothesberger (sp), and is god?! If you watched the AFC championship game, Ben saved that game by avoiding about 20 sacks. Put a less elusive QB in there and you lose. Come to think of it, maybe Tomlin deserves that title? Take his DC away and see what happens.
Perhaps you are right TS. It is a very hard idea to judge, considering Coordinators can make or break teams. Like Tomlin, he has little to nothing to do with the defensive side of the ball. Does that make him a bad coach? Not really. Maybe the best coaches find people who can do each aspect better than himself, so the sum of all parts is greater than the whole.
I will go with Gruden though. He did win a Super Bowl and leave the Raider's team that he beat in the Super Bowl, but other than that, mediocre.
Wow, people can actually look at arguments and change their minds... Wild!
Ts-Rock
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I used to be a Mike Shannahan fan, but the man hasn't won a playoff game since Elway left. He would have never won those two Super Bowls if my UGA boy Terrell Davis hadn't come along. As great as Elway was he would have ended his career like Marino if TD hadn't been there. That is why I would say he is overrated, plus he did draft Maurice Clarrett in the 3rd round!
Here is my top 5 NFL Head Coaches at the End of 08:
1. Bellachick (NE)
2. Dungy (Ind)
3. Fisher (Ten)
4. Fox (Car)
5. Coughlin (NYG)
Andy Reid (Phi) and Tomlin (Pit) would be on the bubble
Here is my top 5 NFL Head Coaches at the End of 08:
1. Bellachick (NE)
2. Dungy (Ind)
3. Fisher (Ten)
4. Fox (Car)
5. Coughlin (NYG)
Andy Reid (Phi) and Tomlin (Pit) would be on the bubble
mwindle
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Originally posted by Ts-Rock
I used to be a Mike Shannahan fan, but the man hasn't won a playoff game since Elway left. He would have never won those two Super Bowls if my UGA boy Terrell Davis hadn't come along. As great as Elway was he would have ended his career like Marino if TD hadn't been there. That is why I would say he is overrated, plus he did draft Maurice Clarrett in the 3rd round!
Here is my top 5 NFL Head Coaches at the End of 08:
1. Bellachick (NE)
2. Dungy (Ind)
3. Fisher (Ten)
4. Fox (Car)
5. Coughlin (NYG)
Andy Reid (Phi) and Tomlin (Pit) would be on the bubble
Owner's and management have a lot to do with coaches success. Every team you mentioned but one has an extremely well run organiztion. The excpetion is Indy. There ownership is almost as bad as the Bengals. It is a miracle that Dungy and Manning were able to overcome some of the terrible personnel and contractual mistakes that were made along the way. Why do you think Dungy retired so young. He'll be back in coaching in 2 years tops. Look at Pittsburg, they are a small market team too, but every year they are in the hunt. The get good players and they retain continuity in their personnel.
I used to be a Mike Shannahan fan, but the man hasn't won a playoff game since Elway left. He would have never won those two Super Bowls if my UGA boy Terrell Davis hadn't come along. As great as Elway was he would have ended his career like Marino if TD hadn't been there. That is why I would say he is overrated, plus he did draft Maurice Clarrett in the 3rd round!
Here is my top 5 NFL Head Coaches at the End of 08:
1. Bellachick (NE)
2. Dungy (Ind)
3. Fisher (Ten)
4. Fox (Car)
5. Coughlin (NYG)
Andy Reid (Phi) and Tomlin (Pit) would be on the bubble
Owner's and management have a lot to do with coaches success. Every team you mentioned but one has an extremely well run organiztion. The excpetion is Indy. There ownership is almost as bad as the Bengals. It is a miracle that Dungy and Manning were able to overcome some of the terrible personnel and contractual mistakes that were made along the way. Why do you think Dungy retired so young. He'll be back in coaching in 2 years tops. Look at Pittsburg, they are a small market team too, but every year they are in the hunt. The get good players and they retain continuity in their personnel.
mwindle
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Originally posted by invertigo22
Originally posted by Ts-Rock
Originally posted by invertigo22
Nice, I was just on a thread somewhere else commenting on most overrated coaches. I have settled upon Dungy. I think that his offense carried his reputation. Dungy was a defensive oriented coach due to his background, but the Colts had a mediocre defense most of his time there. The one time they were really great was the Super Bowl year. And even then, look how many points they gave up to the Pats in the AFC Championship game. I am pretty sure when you have PM at quarterback, most anyone could succeed. The guy basically calls his own plays... For me to really feel like Dungy was a great coach, they would have had to stomp people on defense as well as have that potent offense he inherited.
Colts under Jim Mora:
1998: 3-13 - Peyton/(rookie)/Harrison/Faulk
1999: 13-3 - Peyton/Harrison/James (rookie) - Titans beat them in 1st round
2000: 10-6 - Peyton/Harrison/James - started 6-2, wildcard team, lost to Dolphins
2001: 6-10 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne (rookie) - finished 2-7
Colts under Tony Dungy
2002: 10-6 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - Wildcard, lost first round
2003: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost in AFC Conf Champ to Pats
2004: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost in Div round to pats
2005: 14-2 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost to steelers in Div round
2006: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai (rookie)/Wayne - Won division, defeated Bears to win Super Bowl
2007: 13-3 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai/Wayne -won division, lost to Chargers in Div round
2008: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai/Wayne - wild card, lost to chargers in WC round
I would say that Tony Dungy and Bill Polian turn that franchise around. It was Dungy that drafted and brought in the def players, but it was also him who took them to the next level. I can see you saying that Dungy isn't the best coach, but I can't understand how anyone could say he is the most overrated. That would go to Shannan, Gruden, Any Dallas coach not named Landry or Jonhson, Norv Turner, Billeck (Bal), but not Dungy
For a second, I thought I read Billeck as Bellichik. I damn near went off! Don't get me wrong, I LOATH the Patriots (Dolphins fan through the tough times), but that man can coach.
Hmm, the actual breakdown is pretty telling I must say. For some of the coaches on there, I wouldn't call them overrated because they haven't actually done much; Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, etc. Gruden is iffy. If expectations were extraordinarily high for him, I would agree. Shannahan won two Super Bowls, albeit on the back of John Elway. Definitely in the running. Billeck I don't know enough about.
The reasoning behind Dungy is that people hold him up as this legendary coach. I think with the offense he has had for his 8 years, sprinkling on a little defense and they would have been a juggernaut. Disgusting to hear how he started the "black head coach trend". Not in as many words, but that is the idea.
Look at Tomlin... Inherits an AMAZING defense, leaves it completely alone, puts together a patchwork offense which wouldn't work without Rothesberger (sp), and is god?! If you watched the AFC championship game, Ben saved that game by avoiding about 20 sacks. Put a less elusive QB in there and you lose. Come to think of it, maybe Tomlin deserves that title? Take his DC away and see what happens.
Perhaps you are right TS. It is a very hard idea to judge, considering Coordinators can make or break teams. Like Tomlin, he has little to nothing to do with the defensive side of the ball. Does that make him a bad coach? Not really. Maybe the best coaches find people who can do each aspect better than himself, so the sum of all parts is greater than the whole.
I will go with Gruden though. He did win a Super Bowl and leave the Raider's team that he beat in the Super Bowl, but other than that, mediocre.
Wow, people can actually look at arguments and change their minds... Wild!
Brian Billeck has a Super Bowl ring, you can't quibble with that. He also coahced what may be the greatest D ever. At least a top 3 of all time. But really he worked with the players he had. If they'd have given him a QB it might have helped. He did win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer. Also, Gruden won with Tony Dungy's team. Kind of like Barry Switzer in Dallas having success on Jimmy Johnson's coattails and then starting a dteady decline from that point on. Not to say Gruden or Switzer weren't good coaches, they just aren't Dungy or Johnson.
Originally posted by Ts-Rock
Originally posted by invertigo22
Nice, I was just on a thread somewhere else commenting on most overrated coaches. I have settled upon Dungy. I think that his offense carried his reputation. Dungy was a defensive oriented coach due to his background, but the Colts had a mediocre defense most of his time there. The one time they were really great was the Super Bowl year. And even then, look how many points they gave up to the Pats in the AFC Championship game. I am pretty sure when you have PM at quarterback, most anyone could succeed. The guy basically calls his own plays... For me to really feel like Dungy was a great coach, they would have had to stomp people on defense as well as have that potent offense he inherited.
Colts under Jim Mora:
1998: 3-13 - Peyton/(rookie)/Harrison/Faulk
1999: 13-3 - Peyton/Harrison/James (rookie) - Titans beat them in 1st round
2000: 10-6 - Peyton/Harrison/James - started 6-2, wildcard team, lost to Dolphins
2001: 6-10 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne (rookie) - finished 2-7
Colts under Tony Dungy
2002: 10-6 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - Wildcard, lost first round
2003: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost in AFC Conf Champ to Pats
2004: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost in Div round to pats
2005: 14-2 - Peyton/Harrison/James/Wayne - won division, lost to steelers in Div round
2006: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai (rookie)/Wayne - Won division, defeated Bears to win Super Bowl
2007: 13-3 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai/Wayne -won division, lost to Chargers in Div round
2008: 12-4 - Peyton/Harrison/Addai/Wayne - wild card, lost to chargers in WC round
I would say that Tony Dungy and Bill Polian turn that franchise around. It was Dungy that drafted and brought in the def players, but it was also him who took them to the next level. I can see you saying that Dungy isn't the best coach, but I can't understand how anyone could say he is the most overrated. That would go to Shannan, Gruden, Any Dallas coach not named Landry or Jonhson, Norv Turner, Billeck (Bal), but not Dungy
For a second, I thought I read Billeck as Bellichik. I damn near went off! Don't get me wrong, I LOATH the Patriots (Dolphins fan through the tough times), but that man can coach.
Hmm, the actual breakdown is pretty telling I must say. For some of the coaches on there, I wouldn't call them overrated because they haven't actually done much; Wade Phillips, Norv Turner, etc. Gruden is iffy. If expectations were extraordinarily high for him, I would agree. Shannahan won two Super Bowls, albeit on the back of John Elway. Definitely in the running. Billeck I don't know enough about.
The reasoning behind Dungy is that people hold him up as this legendary coach. I think with the offense he has had for his 8 years, sprinkling on a little defense and they would have been a juggernaut. Disgusting to hear how he started the "black head coach trend". Not in as many words, but that is the idea.
Look at Tomlin... Inherits an AMAZING defense, leaves it completely alone, puts together a patchwork offense which wouldn't work without Rothesberger (sp), and is god?! If you watched the AFC championship game, Ben saved that game by avoiding about 20 sacks. Put a less elusive QB in there and you lose. Come to think of it, maybe Tomlin deserves that title? Take his DC away and see what happens.
Perhaps you are right TS. It is a very hard idea to judge, considering Coordinators can make or break teams. Like Tomlin, he has little to nothing to do with the defensive side of the ball. Does that make him a bad coach? Not really. Maybe the best coaches find people who can do each aspect better than himself, so the sum of all parts is greater than the whole.
I will go with Gruden though. He did win a Super Bowl and leave the Raider's team that he beat in the Super Bowl, but other than that, mediocre.
Wow, people can actually look at arguments and change their minds... Wild!
Brian Billeck has a Super Bowl ring, you can't quibble with that. He also coahced what may be the greatest D ever. At least a top 3 of all time. But really he worked with the players he had. If they'd have given him a QB it might have helped. He did win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer. Also, Gruden won with Tony Dungy's team. Kind of like Barry Switzer in Dallas having success on Jimmy Johnson's coattails and then starting a dteady decline from that point on. Not to say Gruden or Switzer weren't good coaches, they just aren't Dungy or Johnson.
Last edited Jan 23, 2009 23:42:16
Ts-Rock
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I agree that Pittsburg is a top notch team and organization, but yet they haven't put together 7 straight 10 win season and 5 Division titles like the Colts. I can't believe I'm defending the colts, I'm a Titans fan!!!!
Brian Billeck was an offensive genius who OC the 1998 Vikings with Cunningham at the helm to a 15-1 record yet he never was able to turn batimore into an avg off. Ozzie Newsome built that defense through the draft and Rex Ryan built that Defense not Billeck. His job was offense and he failed at that. He didn't win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer, he won a Super Bowl with Ray Lewis and a top 2 defense of all time.
Brian Billeck was an offensive genius who OC the 1998 Vikings with Cunningham at the helm to a 15-1 record yet he never was able to turn batimore into an avg off. Ozzie Newsome built that defense through the draft and Rex Ryan built that Defense not Billeck. His job was offense and he failed at that. He didn't win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer, he won a Super Bowl with Ray Lewis and a top 2 defense of all time.
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