Warrior General Games

I think one thing that people may be forgetting is that their team is getting benefits from paying for a boost. You get higher stats faster and a greater likelihood of winning games in your league. If everyone in your league happens to boost, it evens the playing field. If your team has more people boosting then those you play against, you will have a distinct advantage. Those playing for free do not have that advantage. Plus you are more likely to move up a league the following season. So to expect the developers to refund your flex points (or money) after you have already had benefits does not make sense.

I understand if someone did not know that his/her player would not continue on forever and are upset that money was invested. I agree with someone who stated before that this information should be published on the purchasing page, that way no one can claim that they were clueless about how this system works. I don't know if there is a way to resolve the issue with those feeling cheated...sorry.

As for a graded system of losing traits after your peak years, that makes sense. I also like the idea of a Hall of Fame. I think that when a person hits their peak years and after, when the player is retired, the same amount of flex given to create the first player is what should be given back (therefore, people would not be tempted to retire their players at the time of their peak). Therefore, a new player can be created and the journey begin again. Maybe having a "son of" option, which has been suggested before. And if you create a child of a previous player, they are given all of the equipment that person still has at the end of the retired player's career, but can only be equipped at the appropriate level.

Summary: Paying Money = Current Benefits = Better Chance to Win Games; Explaination of What Happens to Money Paid on Purchasing Page; Peak through Beyond Retirement = Original Flex Points when First Starting Game + Custom Equipment from Retiring Player

Thanks to the Developers who work hard on this game!

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if im understanding this right then when forced retirement comes around then you get 100% of creating the character and 70% of the fp spent on him

now what you were saying is that the min number of fp you shouold get back from forced retirement is the origanal 400 fp (that is if you only have one player) to me that would make sense. that way those who are playing because they enjoy the game can keep their profile and have their player and when that player retires they can create a new one. now if you create a player that is say 200 fp then you spend the rest of the 200 fp to level that player up once, you are left with 0 fp. then when the retirement comes around you get the 200 back from creating the player, then you get 140 back from the upgrade. leaves you with 340, yes you can still create any type of player. but lets say the next time you feel like making a 100 level player because it will allow you to level him up twice insead of just once. when his retirement comes around you will get the 100 back, but then you will get 140 back from the upgrades spent. that leaves you with 280 (including the left over 40) now you cannot create a qb, wr, or hb.
i know people will be saying "well then just dont use the fp for upgrades and equitment" if a player does that then they will be at a distinct disadvantage. then there are others who would say "well then open your wallet and invest in some fp's" well not all of use have the money to spend. some of use are doing this for the fun of the game. now i know that some fp packages are cheap, but it adds up.
so that is why i believe the fp should not go below 400 fps that way we can all keep our profiles. and as i have seen from some if you win a trophy it goes on your profile, i would like the oppurtunity to keep that recognition if i ever do win a trophy. so thank you for reading and thank you to the devs for creating a great game

ok, here's what I think.

first off, i plan an buying flex points eventually, once I have a feel for the game and know that I'll be around long enough for it to be worth my investment. And I agree retirement has to happen. I've played other games that have no reset or anything what so ever, and as a new player I flat out quit after a couple of weeks. I would see guys way better than me, and knew that while I was getting better, so were they, and that I would never catch them.

Whether retirement is forced, or there's declining stats, which essentially force you into retirement unless you want to warm the bench. and for those of you talking about diminishing returns, when have you ever bought something for your entertainment value that never had diminishing returns? when I buy madden 07, and then madden 08 comes back, you think the video stores will buy back madden 07 adn the same price I bought it for? I'm lucky if I can get 25% of the cost back by selling it.

and there's lots of games that give you 0 return. I've played games, where you had the choice to pay, just like here, you don't have to pay. those who paid got advantages, then after 6 weeks, the game reset. everyone started from scratch, and you had to pay again if you wanted your advantages to continue.

point being, you're paying because you enjoy this game. so when your player retires, after 18 months or so real time. do you really expect to get your entire invesetment back to spend on the next guy? you paid for your entertainment. it's no different than paying for a movie. if you didn't like the movie, you cant just go and demand your money back afterwords.

and as for the suggestions of letting them play forever and new players start in lower leagues. how are those new players ever supposed to make it to the higher leagues? they would have to wait for someone to go inactive, before they could move up, because the top leagues would be full of players with maxed out stats. I agree with a hall of fame concept. once your guys retires if he met certain criteria he gets enshrined, and his legacy can live on.

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i agree with eveything you said the only thing is that i think that your return on fp's should not dip below the minimum given to new players. this way it would be exactly like starting all over again

Originally posted by bengals985
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i agree with eveything you said the only thing is that i think that your return on fp's should not dip below the minimum given to new players. this way it would be exactly like starting all over again

of course, getting the 400 you start with has to happen for sure. and after that any extra the admins give us is a bonus.

Originally posted by bengals985
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i agree with eveything you said the only thing is that i think that your return on fp's should not dip below the minimum given to new players. this way it would be exactly like starting all over again

i was just gonna ask this. Us free players are gonna be screwed if we dont get the minimum back...

First of all I had to admit I havent read all 8 pages of info (only around 4-5) but my though on this is simply

Forced retirement = full FP back in a pool for further play.
We are not talking about giving back money so in that sense the site will still have "the cool cash" we spent on playing here.

On could argue that all bonus shouldnt be returned since they are after all BONUSES - I am here thinking mostly in the lines of starting 400 + any seasonal bonus we might get.

Referral mean investing time for promoting and should be treated like paying money to the game and therefore should be refunded in the terms of the account get the FPs back in a pool for keep gaming.

But only getting 70% back would from a business point of view probably limit who are gonna throw money into flexpoints. Personally I dont really care much since what ever I throw in (currently $38) is considered investing in the fun - pretty much like going to the movies. But if force retirement is implemented and the above mentioned bought FPs+referral is given back then a new implementation could be made, in terms of a random age so not everyone start at the age of 23 and peak at 30, retire at 35. Also by not losing all flexs invested a random accident could happen (Player A in his rookie year are tackled hard and bruised for life hence have to retire) <- yeah crap I just made a super LBer but have to begin all over (course of life) or even worst the might G with 15 years under his belt is and only 1 glorious season from his super bowl ring is hit and forced retired. Of course this will not be fun and shouldnt happen every day but the danger is there.

I think, after 12-15 seasons, you should start deteriorating. Then you'd eventually be ousted from the pro-teams, and get worse and worse. You could still adequately play with lesser competition, however.

This means that you'd still get to use your characters, and have fun with them, and it gives a chance for new players to break through the ranks too.

Obviously a complicated issue, what with the developers needing an income source and all. While the argument does exist that "we don't have to pay to play", for the site to continue it has to at least pay for itself and income is necessary.

But after reading the thread, the issue seems to be not of retirement but of "forced" retirement.

So instead of taking the choice to retire away from the player, the game could work to make the decision not to retire harder and harder. Skill deterioration is one way. So is mandatory minimum salary - making it too expensive for a team to play them.

Also a progression of leagues could work. Eventually retirement or plateauing of skills can happen, but until then it is unfair to force new players to compete against maxed out veterans. Segregating new players from middle players from veterans could keep the game more competitive. And generate even more income, as dedicated player may stagger their characters so they can keep competing in the different leagues.

Getting a refund of any of the flex points purchased is a huge boost to your next character. No, it's not as much as a full refund would be, but it does place you ahead of someone new to the site, so it is something.

Flex points used to increase levels is a bit tough to work around, but a partial refund seems pretty fair (to me at least).

As far as custom equipment goes, a lot of work could be done in order to make a secondary market for the stuff. First, a better system to establish level caps for the items so that is clearer. Then allow for custom equipment to be linked to the account and not the player. This way if a player retires the custom equipment isn't lost. Optionally, allow the buying and selling of custom equipment between players. This might actually be more profitable than just refunding a set percentage of the flex points. If people were able to sell their equipment to other players, then the site isn't out the "money" from the refund, and players might get more flex points than they would from a refund. Add a little "created by" tag to the items and you have something with history. Heck, you could go crazy and add in superstitious stuff with items from successful players being more valuable - stat-wise and point-wise.

And I guess it is a good thing that the game doesn't have career ending injuries or anything like that which would really get people upset.

I've spent the last 30 minutes reading this thread. My head hurts. I think there needs to be some alternative options for teams.

One thing, I would like to see, is more ways to up your flex points. To offset losing 30%... which isn't all that much, but still.


I for one, love the referral system. Infact, I've been on the site for 3 days now, and have 15 referrals. I think a way to get players to promote, is to give them more incentives. If I refer a serious player, and he spends 50 bucks on FP, an additional bonus should be available. If I bring a serious PAYING customer, give another referral bonus.

I'm using "I" a lot, but it isn't meant to sound greedy. If a player takes the time to go out and find serious other players, and earns the site money, (other than just bringing over free loaders) they should get an additional reward.


The 70% seems fair, but I honestly think that there should be other ways to earn FP... (league MVP's) and, I liked the idea of keeping modified equipment.

Originally posted by jeffgarcia
Jeff Garcia is 38 and still as good as he was when he was back on the 49ers.

Big red X.

I've read through most of this. I completely agree with the hall of fame idea. Another option would be to set it up so that you had different levels of leagues. Eventually certain players will rise up and others could lose interest.

Has far as FP go, if a retirement is forced, you could give back 100% of the fp. As far as creating a new character goes they can only level up three times a season anyway. So more then likely I would think players would create a couple new characters and level them each up to the max. So 1 100 level player might become a 40 level and 2 30 levels. Or they could get into making their own team. Or making a team of completely their own players.

Problem 1) If you get back 100% FP, power users will eventually be able to stop spending money on the service. How do you keep the service free if the people who choose to donate no longer have a reason to do so?

Problem 2) Supporting many players and owning teams can be an expensive habit. "Owning" teams in the game is more like "leasing" teams. People don't seem to mind having to renew a lease on a team. How can the developers transition this acceptance to forcing player retirement without the user recovering 100% FP purchased for the player (keeping in mind that forcing retirement without full recovery of FP purchased is more expensive than leasing a team)?

Potential solutions:

1) Public relations! Address the reasoning for forced retirement and % FP recovered with current users immediately. Make the response sticky at the front of the thread and on the main site. Don't post such controversial responses without first thinking them through.

2) Additional FP should be seen as a benefit of donating. I think the "purchase" page should be redesigned to make people feel they are donating for the livelihood of both the site and the developers, rather than "buying" something. When you purchase something, you feel you have a right to that thing indefinitely.

3) I think it would be a good move to reward people with something in the game at retirement in addition to % FP recovered. HOF (and records) is great, but complementing that with something tangible to bring back to your new players would feel even more rewarding to paying users (e.g. auto-generated "HOF Equipment" with SP, related to the position of the retired player, based on achievement in relation to all other retired players at that position. Make this a separate slot in your equipment, and let your equipment be visible to other users.)

I would love for a new thread on this topic to open up in the "Suggestions" section to discuss the real problems and potential solutions at hand (in a reasonable, level-headed, educated manner).

What if when you retire a player... a custom item is given? It's better than anything you can buy, and the player you newly create gets it?

That would give players a reason to retire "hall of fame" players... this would only be true for guys at certain levels. Then the 30% loss would be similar to buying a custom equipment. Say with like 12 (instead of 6) boosts

I like that idea Damazin1!