Warrior General Games

Originally posted by FairForever
For all the talk about running nerfs, in Sophomore, 4 of the top 12 are passing teams, 4 are running teams, and 4 are balanced.

Yes - the passing teams are on top of the running teams, but that's pretty similar to last season (#1/#3/#6 were pure pass - #2 was run - #4 / 5 were balanced). It's pretty clear run got hurt - but it's not at the point where being a pure running team is unplayable.

It is pretty close to almost unplayable at rookie and sophomore level. Luckily so many DC's are just so lazy when it comes to playing defense that you can manage to score against them.

Originally posted by peeti
Bhall...cant quote here, so pls see what you replied to me.

It seems like you dont understand what I mean with early tiers. In Jman, evereyone already capped Hands and CiT so ofc you see sprinting rise. what I meant was that in rookie/Soph, you could exclusively pump those and suceed. Also...50-60 sprinting are still slow WRs who rely on their catching ability more than getting open. If you see that any different then we dont even talk about the same thing.

Anyway...you guys made this thread a run vs pass thread again, which I am sick of. Because ppls again start to only make up things so it looks good for their argumentation.

FairForever for example...why say Top 12? So you can include those ruuning teams that are not even in the Top 10, but include them in that "perfectly balanced" statistic he made there. Everyone can see WHERE those running teams rank there. Its one of the worst posts I have read in a while tbh.

I do think the running change was mandatory for Endgame. And it made Vet look really good this season! So yeah, the changes had a good effect. Everyone thinking this is also the case in early tiers: OK...

Those WR's are getting separation through the routes. 50-60 sprinting at seasoned/journeyman tier isn't slow.

Originally posted by FairForever
I would not consider EEA a Balanced team - but if you look at it that way then I guess there would be 3 running teams.

Definitely the running game has been hurt. But it's not the doomsday situation everyone's been shouting. Outside of Omaha, which dropped significantly, most of the pure running teams are around the same ladder rank as what they were at the end of last season.

EEA is certainly a balanced team. You can't play them like a run team. Omaha would be up a little further if I hadn't just sort of given up on the season and ran some tests. But there is entirely no way we could compete for a top 5 spot this season.

Originally posted by jfbueno
I'll be curious to see how the current sophomore run teams start doing in ladder once we're well into seasoned.

With ASU folding it is probably gonna look a lot like Seasoned right now. INHS and Omaha holding their own basically with defense like AK and Erkner and Mannheim finding it harder and harder like No Boost.

Originally posted by Lokiness
Everyone knows that Run as awalys been a bit week early on.

So stop crying over some nerfs that actually made the game balanced at Pro and Vet level, you just look dumb doing this.
And for the retards that will check my profile to see if I have an interest in supporting the pass, I don't, I'm just tired of this bullshit.

Sorry for ruining your vet experience with early level woes.

I never said you ruined my experience don't be so salty.

If you think balancing Rookie and Soph is more important than balancing Pro and Vet, fair enough bue don't act like I'm the one taking the decisions, devs are.
Pretty much every game is balanced around end game, and there is good reasons to that.

I also do have a S* HB that is currently Soph, the thing is he is decently built and is on a good team so he did ok this season considering he started with 50 chem.
I consider the early balance important but people bitching about passing every fucking posts is really annoying, even more when most of these people either really suck at the game or are just salty that their playstyle isn't OP anymore.

Originally posted by Kayoh

So where's the balance again? I don't think anybody would argue that 3-4 seasons of hell makes just being able to contend with the top passing teams at the Pro and Vet levels worthwhile.
Give me a break, 3 to 4 seasons of hell? What kind of bullshit is that? If you're good at the end game you can totally make a 100% run team and be successful from Rookie to Vet, maybe it's a bit hard to beat passing team in Rookie and Sophomore but the game is still looking for its balance and late game balance is the first thing to achieve in order to find a good balance at lower levels too.

Originally posted by Lokiness
Give me a break, 3 to 4 seasons of hell? What kind of bullshit is that? If you're good at the end game you can totally make a 100% run team and be successful from Rookie to Vet, maybe it's a bit hard to beat passing team in Rookie and Sophomore but the game is still looking for its balance and late game balance is the first thing to achieve in any game.
running in rookie and soph is only possible against lazy DCs. Running in seasoned is only possible against lazy DCs in your own tier that you get lucky enough to get matched up against. If you define "success" as "winning record" then sure, you can be successful, but if your definition of "success" is "top 5 in your tier", then you'd better hope that there are only 4 competent passing teams in your tier or you're absolutely fucked until AT LEAST Jman.

That's closer to the truth, even if you're still exaggerating.

You see you can be reasonable.

Originally posted by Lokiness
That's closer to the truth, even if you're still exaggerating.

You see you can be reasonable.
I can't emphasize this enough.

ASU has a full superstar offensive line. Not just superstar, but superstar + early bloomer + run blocker. You take the current blocking skill SP costs and subtract 20% (superstar), then another 5% (EB), and then another 8% for run blocker and that's how little we're paying for run blocking skills. Just looking at a random guard, we already have 75 run block tech and 65 power. I would have killed for Hub City to have that kind of ability in soph.

That being said, earlier this season, we played No Name and I knew that if we ended up in 2nd and 8 or more, they'd call Edge 2 Buzz, which is a dime 3-2-6 play. I specifically called inside runs in those situations. We ran inside against a dime 3-2-6 play that blitzed the edge (read: TE locks down the LOLB and you're left with 5 OL and a FB vs. 3 DL and 1 LB) and averaged less than 5 YPC. If that doesn't illustrate how fucked up running is in GLB2 right now, I seriously can't think of anything that would.

If you can't break tackles why would you expect to average more than 5 YPC on the inside? It isn't like Zero Edge Blitz against spread where there ends up being nobody up the middle to hold down the RB.

Originally posted by bhall43
If you can't break tackles why would you expect to average more than 5 YPC on the inside? It isn't like Zero Edge Blitz against spread where there ends up being nobody up the middle to hold down the RB.
Even if you count the safeties as box defenders, it's 1 blocker for every defender in the middle of the field. LT takes RDE, LG takes FS, C takes NT, RG takes MLB, RT takes LDE, TE takes LOLB, FB takes SS.

That has always been true regardless of nerfs. Not sure why this season it suddenly hit you that it works like that. What illustrates the running game problem is that plays that should be terrible calls defensively actually hold outside runs relatively well or result in TFL's far more regularly than prior seasons. Adding in that you can't run Off Tackles as inside runs you are left with very few workable plays to use. To the point where you actually have to use a couple plays as waste plays and hope they don't get called in the worst positions.

Originally posted by bhall43
That has always been true regardless of nerfs. Not sure why this season it suddenly hit you that it works like that. What illustrates the running game problem is that plays that should be terrible calls defensively actually hold outside runs relatively well or result in TFL's far more regularly than prior seasons. Adding in that you can't run Off Tackles as inside runs you are left with very few workable plays to use. To the point where you actually have to use a couple plays as waste plays and hope they don't get called in the worst positions.
whether it's always been true or not doesn't make it right. 7 blockers vs. 5 box defenders should be an easy 8 yards every goddamn time. Even if the HB can't break a tackle, all he needs to do is not be dumb enough to out-run his blockers and it should be a potential TD every damn time. And before you even say anything about not having enough run awr, our power back has 40+ and our elusive has 60+.

Originally posted by Kayoh

Even if you count the safeties as box defenders, it's 1 blocker for every defender in the middle of the field. LT takes RDE, LG takes FS, C takes NT, RG takes MLB, RT takes LDE, TE takes LOLB, FB takes SS.

I already went over this in the last thread you talked about it. The blocking doesn't work that way. The LG actually contains the corner because the FS sits back.

Originally posted by Kayoh

whether it's always been true or not doesn't make it right. 7 blockers vs. 5 box defenders should be an easy 8 yards every goddamn time. Even if the HB can't break a tackle, all he needs to do is not be dumb enough to out-run his blockers and it should be a potential TD every damn time. And before you even say anything about not having enough run awr, our power back has 40+ and our elusive has 60+.

Ya just like if you run a 5 man front a team should never get more than 1 yard right?

I understand your desappointement about ASU but there is a nice counter example to that : Manhein Steamroller they have 1 boosted player, 0 Superstar, they thrown literally 1 pass this season and yet they are 9th in the Sophomore ladder. I won't say they would be this or that position in ladder with boosted players but it's easy to figure they would grab a few places very easily.

EDIT: btw the fact that the highest ranked run team in Soph is full of non boosted players tells more about the other running teams than about the balance of the game in the early levels.