Warrior General Games

Originally posted by mrm708
What his intim at?

I kind of suspected a LB core full of TT guys with high intim would be so slow and bad at everything besides trash talking that the low morale QB might be able to pass on them anyway, but haven't seen enough games with it firing to know for sure.

I was editing the above as you posted.

First, I'd say the QB was 1 for 3 with high morale. My LB builds didn't get exploited then.

Second, no matter what the LB build, 10 for 11 is ridiculous. Many of these completions were against CBs that even had On an Island firing. So it's kind of hard to say the LB build is at fault.

Third, their Intim is 73 on the OLBs and 51 on the MLB.

Looking at the Game Logs of each LB, for the game they were targeted 19 times and gave up 10 catches, or 52.6% against. The QB was at 63% completion for the game. First and second down, he was at 57%. On third down, he was at 77%. I think it's a stretch to say "horrible LB build". Maybe I'm wrong on that, but I don't see any glaring issues.

Considering his (the QB) overall stats, his first and second down stats, his stats with high morale --- I can't possibly figure out how the RNG could be so bad that he'd go 10 for 11 on third down with low morale.

If TT isn't going to effect QBs on Running teams (see my discussion with TxSteve and my Fun Time LBs) and it's not going to effect QBs on Passing teams either, then what is the point?

Well I never said "horrible LB build" not sure where you got that from. My point was if you want to have non-S* LBs with high enough intim for TT to be super effective then they will be lacking in other areas. Those guys don't seem to have ridiculously high intim though, so you end up with a much less effective TT.

Originally posted by mrm708
Well I never said "horrible LB build" not sure where you got that from. My point was if you want to have non-S* LBs with high enough intim for TT to be super effective then they will be lacking in other areas. Those guys don't seem to have ridiculously high intim though, so you end up with a much less effective TT.

Oh no I didn't think you were criticizing. I don't think I've compromised their builds just to get TT to fire.

But yes, their TT is less effective than a 100 intim build. It takes more firings.

Yet, QB morale in the 20s-40s is pretty low. Instead of 10 for 11, if he had gone 6 for 11 I probably wouldn't be bringing this up.

A QB at 100 morale could go 6 for 11 on third down easily. I don't think it's a stretch to think that a 30ish morale QB might throw a few 3rd down incompletions.

You're allowing your TT LB to cover passes? There's your first mistake.

They should be blitzing every play

It's when you don't use them aggressively that their weakness shows.

Ya'll are right, we shouldn't nerf it at all. 1 morale QBs are still plenty effective!

Originally posted by Galithor
Ya'll are right, we shouldn't nerf it at all. 1 morale QBs are still plenty effective!

Lol. Even Cleveland couldn't put on a clinic like this.

Originally posted by Galithor
Ya'll are right, we shouldn't nerf it at all. 1 morale QBs are still plenty effective!

Good to hear youve finally come around

With the latest patch, destroying even Romo's running QB with some showboat spam in the 1st quarter was enough to crush the leadership machine, leading to a loss. http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/119841

Imagine what a showboat & TT spam defense together could do to an all running team that takes a few TFL's. It's probably the best way to build a team to defend against the run, while still remaining capable of pass defense.

It's just not fair Corndog said he's going to re-visit SA's, so no one knows if TT will get nerfed. If not, you don't really have a choice on SA's if you want to be good in journeyman and on.

TT helped some here: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/122383

Dexter Morgan torched us to gain a 21-10 lead, but with TT fires we kept his morale down most of the second half.

He still completed a bunch of passes for a bunch of yards (667 in the game), but we got incompletions and stops.

TT helped us in coming back and getting a tie.

Just remember in any talk about balancing TT, the O gets plays like this: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/122383/994538

Morale went from 1 to 14 on the play and then after the Time Out was 20 to start the next play. After another first down completion, he was at 33. So 32 points of Morale gained in 2 plays.

That happens too.

Originally posted by Xars


Just remember in any talk about balancing TT, the O gets plays like this: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/122383/994538




Xars, this example is amazing trolling really. First of all, 3-3 knickel OLB is a choice. You've traded a DT for an LB, presumably to fire Trash Talk off, decimating the QB, and with this patch, his effective leadership on the offense to rebound from all the bad throws and any TFL. So the pass rush aspect is negligible since you rush 5 vs 5.

2nd, this clip is troll bait. You have a zero morale QB who throws a bad spiral, with huge accuracy penalty, and it takes a Superstar to make a jumping catch to make the play. So how is this replay a counter to TT again?

Originally posted by Mezirah
Xars, this example is amazing trolling really. First of all, 3-3 knickel OLB is a choice. You've traded a DT for an LB, presumably to fire Trash Talk off, decimating the QB, and with this patch, his effective leadership on the offense to rebound from all the bad throws and any TFL. So the pass rush aspect is negligible since you rush 5 vs 5.

2nd, this clip is troll bait. You have a zero morale QB who throws a bad spiral, with huge accuracy penalty, and it takes a Superstar to make a jumping catch to make the play. So how is this replay a counter to TT again?

I've included several plays to try and build a balanced case around TT.

While yes, this particular play was low probability, it does happen. And while people will attack TT because it can cause a 20 point drop in morale in a single play, there are plays where the O can regain morale in bunches. I didn't say all O plays were like this. I said plays like this exist. The problem with analyzing most things is that anecdotal evidence gets used more than compete statistics. My only goal was to show that it is possible to regain morale quickly too.

During this game, we got the QB to a 1 morale at several different points. From a 1 morale he rallied up to a high of 64. I've given detail about my LB builds. I don't know the QBs build.

I'm trying to provide context for a variety of outcomes. I'm sorry you take it as trolling.

Originally posted by Xars
I've included several plays to try and build a balanced case around TT.

While yes, this particular play was low probability, it does happen. And while people will attack TT because it can cause a 20 point drop in morale in a single play, there are plays where the O can regain morale in bunches.



Gold TT and 100 intim can hit for 30 morale. Just sayin'.

I just found that sample humorous. I haven't really been following the conversation. Ya the gold TT with blatant high intim maxes is somewhat of an exploit, probably forcing some type of nerf. 0 morale, especialy now with the new leadership nerf, is not a fair way to play for a team, 4 minutes into a game. It's just bullshit really. At least showboat or primetime bombs take some kind of performance on the field. Not just player creation and purposeful coordinating to fire it.

If it's not nerfed in any kind of creative way, at least a failed TT check should result in a negative morale drop for the defense. There are other counter intuitive SA's in the game already such as Streaky on kickers.

Before it gets nerfed, there should at least be an accounting of QB Heart and Toughness.

Those are two skills that could be invested in but are probably under-invested in a pre-TT meta.

If QBs can't offset it without massive Heart and Toughness SP investment, then it probably need a nerf. But if QBs are complaining at 35 Heart and/or 35 Toughness, then I think data is needed at higher values. No one here thinks 35 is a high skill value.

Personally, I'm curious how it will effect my Belgarath build. I'm planning on low Toughness but high Heart with a high contract. He's already at 53 Heart as a Soph. I might max it by Vet. 99 Heart with a high contract shouldn't make him a TT target even with low morale.

But that's what testing/ open beta is all about.