The only thing I'm seeing from those stats is that non-hurried passing needs buffed.
Forum > Suggestions > Throwing accuracy when hurried is OP
Sean1995
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Originally posted by Corndog
The only thing I'm seeing from those stats is that non-hurried passing needs buffed.
Maybe, but the yard per pass attempt was 7+ yards for decent QBs last season, which is somewhat consistent with the NFL stat. And I think the reason for QBs having low completion percentages while having decent yard/attempt numbers is more due to build preference people have on WRs (speed over catching) But yeah, it you plan to do that, you should also nerf hurried passing. It's a way to reward teams with good linemen that are capable of forcing hurried passes.
Also, not sure if you looked at the INT stat or not, but hurried pass should definitely have big impact on interception throws. (and incomplete passes, including passes intentionally thrown out of bounce)
The only thing I'm seeing from those stats is that non-hurried passing needs buffed.
Maybe, but the yard per pass attempt was 7+ yards for decent QBs last season, which is somewhat consistent with the NFL stat. And I think the reason for QBs having low completion percentages while having decent yard/attempt numbers is more due to build preference people have on WRs (speed over catching) But yeah, it you plan to do that, you should also nerf hurried passing. It's a way to reward teams with good linemen that are capable of forcing hurried passes.
Also, not sure if you looked at the INT stat or not, but hurried pass should definitely have big impact on interception throws. (and incomplete passes, including passes intentionally thrown out of bounce)
Edited by Sean1995 on Aug 29, 2014 22:29:48
Edited by Sean1995 on Aug 29, 2014 22:29:11
Edited by Sean1995 on Aug 29, 2014 22:28:29
Well, at least you admit that passing is fundamentally different in this game than the NFL. What you're not getting is how that makes the exact stats not really comparable.
Sean1995
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Originally posted by Corndog
Well, at least you admit that passing is fundamentally different in this game than the NFL. What you're not getting is how that makes the exact stats not really comparable.
It's just a reference that I used to point out that hurries need to be more punishing. There is no need for you to put infinite amount of effort to make stats in this game comparable to those NFL stats.
You have to admit though that hurries should have more effect on pass quality/accuracy. If in glb2 a kicker makes a 50 yarder as easily as he makes an extra point, that is a problem. Sure, you can argue that kicking is fundamentally different in this game than the NFL, but it's the common sense that it is wayyy harder to kick longer FGs. We have similar issues here. What Stobie provided here shows that there is little to no impact hurrying has on throws.
Well, at least you admit that passing is fundamentally different in this game than the NFL. What you're not getting is how that makes the exact stats not really comparable.
It's just a reference that I used to point out that hurries need to be more punishing. There is no need for you to put infinite amount of effort to make stats in this game comparable to those NFL stats.
You have to admit though that hurries should have more effect on pass quality/accuracy. If in glb2 a kicker makes a 50 yarder as easily as he makes an extra point, that is a problem. Sure, you can argue that kicking is fundamentally different in this game than the NFL, but it's the common sense that it is wayyy harder to kick longer FGs. We have similar issues here. What Stobie provided here shows that there is little to no impact hurrying has on throws.
Edited by Sean1995 on Aug 29, 2014 23:09:49
Phisch
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Originally posted by Sean1995
It's just a reference that I used to point out that hurries need to be more punishing. There is no need for you to put infinite amount of effort to make stats in this game comparable to those NFL stats.
You have to admit though that hurries should have more effect on pass quality/accuracy. If in glb2 a kicker makes a 50 yarder as easily as he makes an extra point, that is a problem. Sure, you can argue that kicking is fundamentally different in this game than the NFL, but it's the common sense that it is wayyy harder to kick longer FGs. We have similar issues here. What Stobie provided here shows that there is little to no impact hurrying has on throws.
Stobies figures showed a 50.6806 to 44.2399 difference in Hurried Vs Non Hurried, 6%...thats an impact on throws surely!? and a completion % of 50% on non hurried throws is pretty poor...as Corndog said perhaps non hurried passes should be buffed...
It's just a reference that I used to point out that hurries need to be more punishing. There is no need for you to put infinite amount of effort to make stats in this game comparable to those NFL stats.
You have to admit though that hurries should have more effect on pass quality/accuracy. If in glb2 a kicker makes a 50 yarder as easily as he makes an extra point, that is a problem. Sure, you can argue that kicking is fundamentally different in this game than the NFL, but it's the common sense that it is wayyy harder to kick longer FGs. We have similar issues here. What Stobie provided here shows that there is little to no impact hurrying has on throws.
Stobies figures showed a 50.6806 to 44.2399 difference in Hurried Vs Non Hurried, 6%...thats an impact on throws surely!? and a completion % of 50% on non hurried throws is pretty poor...as Corndog said perhaps non hurried passes should be buffed...
Originally posted by Merik
would be interested in the average gain of yards of hurried vs non hurried passes
When I bust out the work CPU I'll run with this stat applied.
would be interested in the average gain of yards of hurried vs non hurried passes
When I bust out the work CPU I'll run with this stat applied.
Sean1995
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Originally posted by Phisch
Stobies figures showed a 50.6806 to 44.2399 difference in Hurried Vs Non Hurried, 6%...thats an impact on throws surely!? and a completion % of 50% on non hurried throws is pretty poor...as Corndog said perhaps non hurried passes should be buffed...
Yup. That's little to no impact right there. You seem carried away because there is a difference. I think this is actually like the 5th time I am saying this: What you don't get is that poor teams are hurried more frequently and hurried pass stat is more representative of those bad teams. It's not necessarily the darn hurry that is making all the difference! And even without that taken into account, it takes 16+ hurries to turn one complete pass into one incomplete pass. That's crazy. I considered it a good day when an entire linemen could force 15 hurries against a top 5 team, and lol it turns out that it only changed the result of less than one pass attempt out of like 50 passes QB throws.
Stobies figures showed a 50.6806 to 44.2399 difference in Hurried Vs Non Hurried, 6%...thats an impact on throws surely!? and a completion % of 50% on non hurried throws is pretty poor...as Corndog said perhaps non hurried passes should be buffed...
Yup. That's little to no impact right there. You seem carried away because there is a difference. I think this is actually like the 5th time I am saying this: What you don't get is that poor teams are hurried more frequently and hurried pass stat is more representative of those bad teams. It's not necessarily the darn hurry that is making all the difference! And even without that taken into account, it takes 16+ hurries to turn one complete pass into one incomplete pass. That's crazy. I considered it a good day when an entire linemen could force 15 hurries against a top 5 team, and lol it turns out that it only changed the result of less than one pass attempt out of like 50 passes QB throws.
Phisch
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Originally posted by Sean1995
Yup. That's little to no impact right there. You seem carried away because there is a difference. I think this is actually like the 5th time I am saying this: What you don't get is that poor teams are hurried more frequently and hurried pass stat is more representative of those bad teams. It's not necessarily the darn hurry that is making all the difference! And even without that taken into account, it takes 16+ hurries to turn one complete pass into one incomplete pass. That's crazy. I considered it a good day when an entire linemen could force 15 hurries against a top 5 team, and lol it turns out that it only changed the result of less than one pass attempt out of like 50 passes QB throws.
Right, so the effect of a hurry is not shown in the numbers stobie provided because rubbish teams get hurried more and those rubbish teams will have a lower completion % anyway...because they're rubbish?
Yup. That's little to no impact right there. You seem carried away because there is a difference. I think this is actually like the 5th time I am saying this: What you don't get is that poor teams are hurried more frequently and hurried pass stat is more representative of those bad teams. It's not necessarily the darn hurry that is making all the difference! And even without that taken into account, it takes 16+ hurries to turn one complete pass into one incomplete pass. That's crazy. I considered it a good day when an entire linemen could force 15 hurries against a top 5 team, and lol it turns out that it only changed the result of less than one pass attempt out of like 50 passes QB throws.
Right, so the effect of a hurry is not shown in the numbers stobie provided because rubbish teams get hurried more and those rubbish teams will have a lower completion % anyway...because they're rubbish?
Edited by Phisch on Aug 30, 2014 08:49:29
Sean1995
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Originally posted by TxSteve
that could be true...but worse teams with worse QB's will lower both the "hurried" and "non-hurried" stats.
So you are essentially saying what he is saying right?
that could be true...but worse teams with worse QB's will lower both the "hurried" and "non-hurried" stats.
So you are essentially saying what he is saying right?
Sean1995
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Let me simplify this for you then. Not everyone majors math, I figured.
Say there is a better team, who threw 100 times last season. The QB is good, OL is decent, so QB got hurried 20 times, where he still completed 10 out of 20. In 80 non-hurried pass attempts, he was about the same as when he was hurried, completing 40.
And there is a worse team, who also threw 100 times last season. The QB sucks, OL sucks, so QB got hurried 50 times, where he completed 10 out of 50. In the other 50 non-hurried pass attempts, he still sucked ass and completed 10 out of them as well.
'''''''''''''''Hurried'''''''Non-hurried
Better team'''''10/20'(50%)'''''40/80'(50%)
Worse team''''''10/50'(20%)'''''10/50'(20%)
These are just extreme numbers I had to make to make you understand why stobie's stat could be misleading.
So, according to my numbers, there is no completion difference on a QB when he is hurried and he isn't, right? It's 50% for a good QB no matter what, and 20% for a bad QB.
But, let's see the 'overall stat'(adding stats from both better and worse team) for hurried and non hurried.
And I come up with this number: 20/70 (28.57%) pass completion percentage when hurried. 50/130 (38.46%) pass completion percentage when not hurried.
Can we conclude that hurries have negative effects on pass completion just because of the overall stat? We really can't.
Say there is a better team, who threw 100 times last season. The QB is good, OL is decent, so QB got hurried 20 times, where he still completed 10 out of 20. In 80 non-hurried pass attempts, he was about the same as when he was hurried, completing 40.
And there is a worse team, who also threw 100 times last season. The QB sucks, OL sucks, so QB got hurried 50 times, where he completed 10 out of 50. In the other 50 non-hurried pass attempts, he still sucked ass and completed 10 out of them as well.
'''''''''''''''Hurried'''''''Non-hurried
Better team'''''10/20'(50%)'''''40/80'(50%)
Worse team''''''10/50'(20%)'''''10/50'(20%)
These are just extreme numbers I had to make to make you understand why stobie's stat could be misleading.
So, according to my numbers, there is no completion difference on a QB when he is hurried and he isn't, right? It's 50% for a good QB no matter what, and 20% for a bad QB.
But, let's see the 'overall stat'(adding stats from both better and worse team) for hurried and non hurried.
And I come up with this number: 20/70 (28.57%) pass completion percentage when hurried. 50/130 (38.46%) pass completion percentage when not hurried.
Can we conclude that hurries have negative effects on pass completion just because of the overall stat? We really can't.
Edited by Sean1995 on Aug 30, 2014 13:59:05
Phisch
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Originally posted by Sean1995
So the stobie's stat on 'hurried pass' section is more representative of worse teams' passing stat than it is of better teams.
I was attempting to get to this...but you described it much better than I...and almost 24 hours prior
So what you would expect to see is that 6% difference in Sotbies stats be considerably higher (c20%) to allow for the fact that most hurries are against rubbish teams...but you accept that the completion % when not hurried should be higher, c60% rather than the 50%ish it currently is?
I'm not trying to be difficult Sean but I think that the biggest concerns of the people who have argued against your suggestion is that the completion % (overall) of most QB's is still fairly low (compared to lolNFL) and any buff to Hurries would only decrease that %...if that overall % went up and the effect of hurries was also buffed then i dont know that many people would complain...assuming thats what (or at least part of) what you're saying?
So the stobie's stat on 'hurried pass' section is more representative of worse teams' passing stat than it is of better teams.
I was attempting to get to this...but you described it much better than I...and almost 24 hours prior
So what you would expect to see is that 6% difference in Sotbies stats be considerably higher (c20%) to allow for the fact that most hurries are against rubbish teams...but you accept that the completion % when not hurried should be higher, c60% rather than the 50%ish it currently is?
I'm not trying to be difficult Sean but I think that the biggest concerns of the people who have argued against your suggestion is that the completion % (overall) of most QB's is still fairly low (compared to lolNFL) and any buff to Hurries would only decrease that %...if that overall % went up and the effect of hurries was also buffed then i dont know that many people would complain...assuming thats what (or at least part of) what you're saying?
Phisch
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Originally posted by Sean1995
Let me simplify this for you then. Not everyone majors math, I figured.
Say there is a better team, who threw 100 times last season. The QB is good, OL is decent, so QB got hurried 10 times, where he still completed 10 out of 20. In 80 non-hurried pass attempts, he was about the same as when he was hurried, throwing 40.
And there is a worse team, who also threw 100 times last season. The QB sucks, OL sucks, so QB got hurried 50 times, where he completed 10 out of 50. In the other 50 non-hurried pass attempts, he still sucked ass and completed 10 out of them as well.
'''''''''''''''Hurried'''''''Non-hurried
Better team'''''10/20'(50%)'''''40/80'(50%)
Worse team''''''10/50'(20%)'''''10/50'(20%)
These are just extreme numbers I had to make to make you understand why stobie's stat could be misleading.
So, according to my numbers, there is no completion difference on a QB when he is hurried and he isn't, right? It's 50% for a good QB no matter what, and 20% for a bad QB.
But, let's see the 'overall stat'(adding stats from both better and worse team) for hurried and non hurried.
And I come up with this number: 20/70 (28.57%) pass completion percentage when hurried. 50/130 (38.46%) pass completion percentage when not hurried.
Can we conclude that hurries have negative effects on pass completion just because of the overall stat? We really can't.
my only response whilst skulking off into a corner to read a mathS book 
Let me simplify this for you then. Not everyone majors math, I figured.
Say there is a better team, who threw 100 times last season. The QB is good, OL is decent, so QB got hurried 10 times, where he still completed 10 out of 20. In 80 non-hurried pass attempts, he was about the same as when he was hurried, throwing 40.
And there is a worse team, who also threw 100 times last season. The QB sucks, OL sucks, so QB got hurried 50 times, where he completed 10 out of 50. In the other 50 non-hurried pass attempts, he still sucked ass and completed 10 out of them as well.
'''''''''''''''Hurried'''''''Non-hurried
Better team'''''10/20'(50%)'''''40/80'(50%)
Worse team''''''10/50'(20%)'''''10/50'(20%)
These are just extreme numbers I had to make to make you understand why stobie's stat could be misleading.
So, according to my numbers, there is no completion difference on a QB when he is hurried and he isn't, right? It's 50% for a good QB no matter what, and 20% for a bad QB.
But, let's see the 'overall stat'(adding stats from both better and worse team) for hurried and non hurried.
And I come up with this number: 20/70 (28.57%) pass completion percentage when hurried. 50/130 (38.46%) pass completion percentage when not hurried.
Can we conclude that hurries have negative effects on pass completion just because of the overall stat? We really can't.
my only response whilst skulking off into a corner to read a mathS book Sean1995
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If Corn plans to buff non hurried passes and nerf hurried passes, I would be happy. And if you could please read some of my previous posts that would be much appreciated as well. I hate quoting myself but here you go.
Originally posted by Sean1995
Maybe, but the yard per pass attempt was 7+ yards for decent QBs last season, which is somewhat consistent with the NFL stat. And I think the reason for QBs having low completion percentages while having decent yard/attempt numbers is more due to build preference people have on WRs (speed over catching) But yeah, it you plan to do that, you should also nerf hurried passing. It's a way to reward teams with good linemen that are capable of forcing hurried passes.
Also, not sure if you looked at the INT stat or not, but hurried pass should definitely have big impact on interception throws. (and incomplete passes, including passes intentionally thrown out of bounce)
Originally posted by Sean1995
Maybe, but the yard per pass attempt was 7+ yards for decent QBs last season, which is somewhat consistent with the NFL stat. And I think the reason for QBs having low completion percentages while having decent yard/attempt numbers is more due to build preference people have on WRs (speed over catching) But yeah, it you plan to do that, you should also nerf hurried passing. It's a way to reward teams with good linemen that are capable of forcing hurried passes.
Also, not sure if you looked at the INT stat or not, but hurried pass should definitely have big impact on interception throws. (and incomplete passes, including passes intentionally thrown out of bounce)
Phisch
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I get ya Sean...and i also am not a fan of quoting myself...but
Originally posted by Phisch
my only response whilst skulking off...
Originally posted by Phisch
my only response whilst skulking off... You are not logged in. Please log in if you want to post a reply.
