Apart from all suggestions given in this topic, this is a Beta. We should test everything instead of waiting for definitive answers.
Forum > Suggestions > Middle Overload - the lazy mans defense
USC_Trojans
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Originally posted by Corndog
I mean, I get the feeling that you think I'm saying that they see the ball coming but instead decide to follow their WR.
And of course it doesn't work that way because that would be stupid as all hell.
No what I'm saying is I don't understand why the cb didn't have some sort of awareness roll to see that the ball was thrown and make a play. It looks like he doesn't even try to see the ball. It may have been a failed awareness check but its happened enough times where I had a concern because the cb should be trying to make a play on the ball and he doesn't even notice.
I mean, I get the feeling that you think I'm saying that they see the ball coming but instead decide to follow their WR.
And of course it doesn't work that way because that would be stupid as all hell.
No what I'm saying is I don't understand why the cb didn't have some sort of awareness roll to see that the ball was thrown and make a play. It looks like he doesn't even try to see the ball. It may have been a failed awareness check but its happened enough times where I had a concern because the cb should be trying to make a play on the ball and he doesn't even notice.
USC_Trojans
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Originally posted by kaiijy
Every time you make Corndog reply on coverage or CBs is another post wasted not solving Middle Overload. Create your own topic, dammit.
Coverage is a more important concern to me than middle overload since I have had 0 issues with the play while OCing for Maine but as a DC for multiple teams I'm finding issues such as hanging turns out of a back peddle and some funky things like play 1 I linked where the strong safety is confused as hell or zones not having an awareness check for players about to enter their zone (currently waits till the player is in the zone to react.) and coverage and CBS had everything to do with my suggestion to help make certain blitzes much more risky. Right now I feel the risk of blitzing is less than the potential rewards you get. Only reason I stopped blitzing was because I don't like the man blitzes on any of the packages with 3+ Cbs and I don't like running zone blitz because of the lack of awareness of receivers till they hit the bubble. In all reality I prefer to run a mixed defense with man and zone and blitzes but its a bit restricted here.
Every time you make Corndog reply on coverage or CBs is another post wasted not solving Middle Overload. Create your own topic, dammit.
Coverage is a more important concern to me than middle overload since I have had 0 issues with the play while OCing for Maine but as a DC for multiple teams I'm finding issues such as hanging turns out of a back peddle and some funky things like play 1 I linked where the strong safety is confused as hell or zones not having an awareness check for players about to enter their zone (currently waits till the player is in the zone to react.) and coverage and CBS had everything to do with my suggestion to help make certain blitzes much more risky. Right now I feel the risk of blitzing is less than the potential rewards you get. Only reason I stopped blitzing was because I don't like the man blitzes on any of the packages with 3+ Cbs and I don't like running zone blitz because of the lack of awareness of receivers till they hit the bubble. In all reality I prefer to run a mixed defense with man and zone and blitzes but its a bit restricted here.
Galithor
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Originally posted by Rambo
Certain plays destroy MO.
Yes, this is known. But only the best built/coordinated teams are capable of properly executing the offense that is required. Even then, a couple of bad play choices mixed in risks a morale spiral that will make the effective plays ineffective as well.
No play initiates a morale spiral of doom with near the success of Middle Overload. It is the outlier play amongst the myriad blitz options.
Certain plays destroy MO.
Yes, this is known. But only the best built/coordinated teams are capable of properly executing the offense that is required. Even then, a couple of bad play choices mixed in risks a morale spiral that will make the effective plays ineffective as well.
No play initiates a morale spiral of doom with near the success of Middle Overload. It is the outlier play amongst the myriad blitz options.
bhall43
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Originally posted by USC_Trojans
Coverage is a more important concern to me than middle overload since I have had 0 issues with the play while OCing for Maine but as a DC for multiple teams I'm finding issues such as hanging turns out of a back peddle and some funky things like play 1 I linked where the strong safety is confused as hell or zones not having an awareness check for players about to enter their zone (currently waits till the player is in the zone to react.) and coverage and CBS had everything to do with my suggestion to help make certain blitzes much more risky. Right now I feel the risk of blitzing is less than the potential rewards you get. Only reason I stopped blitzing was because I don't like the man blitzes on any of the packages with 3+ Cbs and I don't like running zone blitz because of the lack of awareness of receivers till they hit the bubble. In all reality I prefer to run a mixed defense with man and zone and blitzes but its a bit restricted here.
Playing around with Maine and then jumping down to the rookie levels is an entirely different world when it comes to MO. I think right now I have one of the top passing QB's in rookie level and am still getting smashed by MO at times. Especially earlier in the season.
Ironically what is sending Maine down the ladder is the overuse of MO.
Coverage is a more important concern to me than middle overload since I have had 0 issues with the play while OCing for Maine but as a DC for multiple teams I'm finding issues such as hanging turns out of a back peddle and some funky things like play 1 I linked where the strong safety is confused as hell or zones not having an awareness check for players about to enter their zone (currently waits till the player is in the zone to react.) and coverage and CBS had everything to do with my suggestion to help make certain blitzes much more risky. Right now I feel the risk of blitzing is less than the potential rewards you get. Only reason I stopped blitzing was because I don't like the man blitzes on any of the packages with 3+ Cbs and I don't like running zone blitz because of the lack of awareness of receivers till they hit the bubble. In all reality I prefer to run a mixed defense with man and zone and blitzes but its a bit restricted here.
Playing around with Maine and then jumping down to the rookie levels is an entirely different world when it comes to MO. I think right now I have one of the top passing QB's in rookie level and am still getting smashed by MO at times. Especially earlier in the season.
Ironically what is sending Maine down the ladder is the overuse of MO.
USC_Trojans
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Originally posted by bhall43
Playing around with Maine and then jumping down to the rookie levels is an entirely different world when it comes to MO. I think right now I have one of the top passing QB's in rookie level and am still getting smashed by MO at times. Especially earlier in the season.
Ironically what is sending Maine down the ladder is the overuse of MO.
true I havent been watching rookie ball outside my wr so I havent seen how bad it is
Playing around with Maine and then jumping down to the rookie levels is an entirely different world when it comes to MO. I think right now I have one of the top passing QB's in rookie level and am still getting smashed by MO at times. Especially earlier in the season.
Ironically what is sending Maine down the ladder is the overuse of MO.
true I havent been watching rookie ball outside my wr so I havent seen how bad it is
kaiijy
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Originally posted by USC_Trojans
Coverage is a more important concern to me than middle overload since I have had 0 issues with the play while OCing for Maine but as a DC for multiple teams I'm finding issues such as hanging turns out of a back peddle and some funky things like play 1 I linked where the strong safety is confused as hell or zones not having an awareness check for players about to enter their zone (currently waits till the player is in the zone to react.) and coverage and CBS had everything to do with my suggestion to help make certain blitzes much more risky. Right now I feel the risk of blitzing is less than the potential rewards you get. Only reason I stopped blitzing was because I don't like the man blitzes on any of the packages with 3+ Cbs and I don't like running zone blitz because of the lack of awareness of receivers till they hit the bubble. In all reality I prefer to run a mixed defense with man and zone and blitzes but its a bit restricted here.
Blah blah blah, get your own topic.
PS: I'm not saying your point is not valid, just that it is not the thread for it.
Coverage is a more important concern to me than middle overload since I have had 0 issues with the play while OCing for Maine but as a DC for multiple teams I'm finding issues such as hanging turns out of a back peddle and some funky things like play 1 I linked where the strong safety is confused as hell or zones not having an awareness check for players about to enter their zone (currently waits till the player is in the zone to react.) and coverage and CBS had everything to do with my suggestion to help make certain blitzes much more risky. Right now I feel the risk of blitzing is less than the potential rewards you get. Only reason I stopped blitzing was because I don't like the man blitzes on any of the packages with 3+ Cbs and I don't like running zone blitz because of the lack of awareness of receivers till they hit the bubble. In all reality I prefer to run a mixed defense with man and zone and blitzes but its a bit restricted here.
Blah blah blah, get your own topic.
PS: I'm not saying your point is not valid, just that it is not the thread for it.
notque
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Personally, I love when my team facts middle overload. really easy to pick apart.
I run a pro team though, and have no idea what others face. I have the hardest time stopping outside runs, and can't figure out any way to stop them reliably.
I run a pro team though, and have no idea what others face. I have the hardest time stopping outside runs, and can't figure out any way to stop them reliably.
In the lower levels MO is WAY too powerful as there isn't much to fight against it, in the upper levels its manageable and can be beaten with relative ease.
That in my eyes is the true issue is depending on where your and and who you speak to you will get a different answer as it is a myriad of reasons for each spectrum of its success or there lack of.
That in my eyes is the true issue is depending on where your and and who you speak to you will get a different answer as it is a myriad of reasons for each spectrum of its success or there lack of.
kirincnj
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Originally posted by Stobie
In the lower levels MO is WAY too powerful as there isn't much to fight against it, in the upper levels its manageable and can be beaten with relative ease.
That in my eyes is the true issue is depending on where your and and who you speak to you will get a different answer as it is a myriad of reasons for each spectrum of its success or there lack of.
As far as sophomore is concerned,I'm happy to see a team spam MO. Gives me high percentage odds so long as my playcalling fires as I intend it to.
In the lower levels MO is WAY too powerful as there isn't much to fight against it, in the upper levels its manageable and can be beaten with relative ease.
That in my eyes is the true issue is depending on where your and and who you speak to you will get a different answer as it is a myriad of reasons for each spectrum of its success or there lack of.
As far as sophomore is concerned,I'm happy to see a team spam MO. Gives me high percentage odds so long as my playcalling fires as I intend it to.
bhall43
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The point is MO hasn't even seen it peak performance yet from any team. If nothing is done about it now there is gonna be a lot of soreness about it later. More so than currently.
Stixx
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Originally posted by bhall43
The point is MO hasn't even seen it peak performance yet from any team. If nothing is done about it now there is gonna be a lot of soreness about it later. More so than currently.
Yep, especially when teams start building a defense specifically for the play. Although I'm sure this is already happening...
The point is MO hasn't even seen it peak performance yet from any team. If nothing is done about it now there is gonna be a lot of soreness about it later. More so than currently.
Yep, especially when teams start building a defense specifically for the play. Although I'm sure this is already happening...
dcarbo
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If I wanted to compare the MO to the NFL, I'd say it looks exactly like a well-disguised corner blitz, the kind where everyone on the offense is taken completely by surprise.
This alignment appears to set up/expose a weakness in the way the OL makes the 'who to block' decisions. It's a six-on-five blitz, so it's no surprise that it brings good pressure. What makes it killer is the frequency of straight-line unblocked runs at the QB. In those situations the blitz can hit the QB at 25-30 ticks.
I have no idea why the play is so effective at fooling the OT's and OG's, but that's what's happening - the OL is blowing the coverage far too often to be attributed to bad luck alone.
This alignment appears to set up/expose a weakness in the way the OL makes the 'who to block' decisions. It's a six-on-five blitz, so it's no surprise that it brings good pressure. What makes it killer is the frequency of straight-line unblocked runs at the QB. In those situations the blitz can hit the QB at 25-30 ticks.
I have no idea why the play is so effective at fooling the OT's and OG's, but that's what's happening - the OL is blowing the coverage far too often to be attributed to bad luck alone.
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