Originally posted by Corndog
So is a new era of completely ignoring conditioning coming soon?
Hey now. That’s been my plan all along
So is a new era of completely ignoring conditioning coming soon?
Hey now. That’s been my plan all along
Forum > Suggestions > Conditioning
william78
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Originally posted by Corndog
"HBs with 100 conditioning shouldn't be able to run the ball 40 times a game" is a distinctly different argument than "Being out of energy doesn't have any effect". The latter is absurd, which is why I assumed the argument was actually just trying a different angle to a suggestion that got a lukewarm response the first time around.
Which like, personally, the original argument is a lot more compelling than the latter that ignores the obvious implications. Making players play even worse with low energy is going to make every player need 90+ conditioning, and make lower tiers even more garbage...and is silly anyway because half the positions already invest heavily in conditioning because the effects are already significant.
Toning down the high end of conditioning makes much more sense. Is it for the better? I don't really know, it's slightly more realistic but does requiring more depth at positions really add a lot of gameplay value? It feels like it's primary value is limiting the number and/or value of superstars, which is the actual real suggestion. Takes awhile, but we finally get there.
Well first I'd like to point out Vipermaw and I actually agreeing on something should give you pause that's like Jets and the Sharks deciding NY is more than big enough for the both of them and the knife fight isn't really necessary.
However - I'd say realism can be its own argument as an overall imrpvoement to gameplay.
- Having 1 guy tote it 40 times smashing defenders when he gets hit by 4-5 guys per play and never take a breaks is a bit wonky.
- That said, its not about nerfing running , I think a back late in the game whose invested in conditoning at 100 or 95 or 100+ and the defensive line has been running around all game ought to be at a distinct advantage busting you up if the defensive line is exhausted.
- I think the QB bleeding energy after handing the ball off or throwing it looks goofy. It's no accident several of the best QBs are mid and late 30's (I wont even mention the 40 year old guy no way to program that) - unless you are running about busting tackles and moving the ball like your a flaminco dancer on a meth bender its not something that should happen......
- and I wonder what would happen on routine completions and pass attempts if the QB energy wasn't being sapped like the poor man who is underbanked and stopping at a pay day loan place
I'd say the upshot is if your team requires and "leans heavy" on one particular positiion or set of plays it would make more sense to need additional depth/players at some of those key positions. The top end result, the benefit you get out of high conditioning seems a little overdone and the bottom end the penalty you get for being gassed seems a little underdone (those are team choices as well). Just a little law of diminishing returns on the top end and some beating on the low end for ignoring it. If your DT is smoked he ought to be the maitre D at a high-end restaurant with the back ...right this way sir. But neither should superman rule the day and never wear down because he's maxed ye old conditioning. Even superman needs a holiday in the fortress of solitude.
"HBs with 100 conditioning shouldn't be able to run the ball 40 times a game" is a distinctly different argument than "Being out of energy doesn't have any effect". The latter is absurd, which is why I assumed the argument was actually just trying a different angle to a suggestion that got a lukewarm response the first time around.
Which like, personally, the original argument is a lot more compelling than the latter that ignores the obvious implications. Making players play even worse with low energy is going to make every player need 90+ conditioning, and make lower tiers even more garbage...and is silly anyway because half the positions already invest heavily in conditioning because the effects are already significant.
Toning down the high end of conditioning makes much more sense. Is it for the better? I don't really know, it's slightly more realistic but does requiring more depth at positions really add a lot of gameplay value? It feels like it's primary value is limiting the number and/or value of superstars, which is the actual real suggestion. Takes awhile, but we finally get there.
Well first I'd like to point out Vipermaw and I actually agreeing on something should give you pause that's like Jets and the Sharks deciding NY is more than big enough for the both of them and the knife fight isn't really necessary.
However - I'd say realism can be its own argument as an overall imrpvoement to gameplay.
- Having 1 guy tote it 40 times smashing defenders when he gets hit by 4-5 guys per play and never take a breaks is a bit wonky.
- That said, its not about nerfing running , I think a back late in the game whose invested in conditoning at 100 or 95 or 100+ and the defensive line has been running around all game ought to be at a distinct advantage busting you up if the defensive line is exhausted.
- I think the QB bleeding energy after handing the ball off or throwing it looks goofy. It's no accident several of the best QBs are mid and late 30's (I wont even mention the 40 year old guy no way to program that) - unless you are running about busting tackles and moving the ball like your a flaminco dancer on a meth bender its not something that should happen......
- and I wonder what would happen on routine completions and pass attempts if the QB energy wasn't being sapped like the poor man who is underbanked and stopping at a pay day loan place
I'd say the upshot is if your team requires and "leans heavy" on one particular positiion or set of plays it would make more sense to need additional depth/players at some of those key positions. The top end result, the benefit you get out of high conditioning seems a little overdone and the bottom end the penalty you get for being gassed seems a little underdone (those are team choices as well). Just a little law of diminishing returns on the top end and some beating on the low end for ignoring it. If your DT is smoked he ought to be the maitre D at a high-end restaurant with the back ...right this way sir. But neither should superman rule the day and never wear down because he's maxed ye old conditioning. Even superman needs a holiday in the fortress of solitude.
Edited by william78 on Jan 4, 2022 06:43:57
dredgar
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I completely agree with everyone on the issues in the QB energy. The rest of it you guys are asking for serious issues.
Corndog, QBs seem to lose 5 energy during a handoff every play is what they have been pointing out. Is there some way of just fixing the QB overuse if energy during plays they take four steps and stand still? If QB did not lose drastic energy I. Plays they even stand there mostly the position might be able to get a bit more out of the build and help smooth out the build overall. I have ahd a qb with 70 energy and they do tend to get more tired than other positions. By all means if they were getting sacked all game they should be tired.
Corndog, QBs seem to lose 5 energy during a handoff every play is what they have been pointing out. Is there some way of just fixing the QB overuse if energy during plays they take four steps and stand still? If QB did not lose drastic energy I. Plays they even stand there mostly the position might be able to get a bit more out of the build and help smooth out the build overall. I have ahd a qb with 70 energy and they do tend to get more tired than other positions. By all means if they were getting sacked all game they should be tired.
ThePh33P
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Originally posted by dredgar
I completely agree with everyone on the issues in the QB energy. The rest of it you guys are asking for serious issues.
Corndog, QBs seem to lose 5 energy during a handoff every play is what they have been pointing out. Is there some way of just fixing the QB overuse if energy during plays they take four steps and stand still? If QB did not lose drastic energy I. Plays they even stand there mostly the position might be able to get a bit more out of the build and help smooth out the build overall. I have ahd a qb with 70 energy and they do tend to get more tired than other positions. By all means if they were getting sacked all game they should be tired.
yea honestly if anything gets taken from this its fixing qb energy drain
I completely agree with everyone on the issues in the QB energy. The rest of it you guys are asking for serious issues.
Corndog, QBs seem to lose 5 energy during a handoff every play is what they have been pointing out. Is there some way of just fixing the QB overuse if energy during plays they take four steps and stand still? If QB did not lose drastic energy I. Plays they even stand there mostly the position might be able to get a bit more out of the build and help smooth out the build overall. I have ahd a qb with 70 energy and they do tend to get more tired than other positions. By all means if they were getting sacked all game they should be tired.
yea honestly if anything gets taken from this its fixing qb energy drain
vipermaw82
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Originally posted by william78
Well first I'd like to point out Vipermaw and I actually agreeing on something should give you pause that's like Jets and the Sharks deciding NY is more than big enough for the both of them and the knife fight isn't really necessary.
However - I'd say realism can be its own argument as an overall imrpvoement to gameplay.
- Having 1 guy tote it 40 times smashing defenders when he gets hit by 4-5 guys per play and never take a breaks is a bit wonky.
- That said, its not about nerfing running , I think a back late in the game whose invested in conditoning at 100 or 95 or 100+ and the defensive line has been running around all game ought to be at a distinct advantage busting you up if the defensive line is exhausted.
- I think the QB bleeding energy after handing the ball off or throwing it looks goofy. It's no accident several of the best QBs are mid and late 30's (I wont even mention the 40 year old guy no way to program that) - unless you are running about busting tackles and moving the ball like your a flaminco dancer on a meth bender its not something that should happen......
- and I wonder what would happen on routine completions and pass attempts if the QB energy wasn't being sapped like the poor man who is underbanked and stopping at a pay day loan place
I'd say the upshot is if your team requires and "leans heavy" on one particular positiion or set of plays it would make more sense to need additional depth/players at some of those key positions. The top end result, the benefit you get out of high conditioning seems a little overdone and the bottom end the penalty you get for being gassed seems a little underdone (those are team choices as well). Just a little law of diminishing returns on the top end and some beating on the low end for ignoring it. If your DT is smoked he ought to be the maitre D at a high-end restaurant with the back ...right this way sir. But neither should superman rule the day and never wear down because he's maxed ye old conditioning. Even superman needs a holiday in the fortress of solitude.
Pretty much all of this especially the first part.
However the diminishing return should also show down the impossible to tackle elusives. Not so quick when you’re best down. A way to offset their never ending speed and dodging would be to lower the toughness effect across the board and remove toughness boost or energy loss from B4I. Literally you’re bracing for an impact to not fumble, you’re not balancing better while bracing and you’re not mysteriously gaining body armour on the hit. Toughness and negative conditioning effects slightly bumped May fix a lot, as well as the energy loss on a handoff
Well first I'd like to point out Vipermaw and I actually agreeing on something should give you pause that's like Jets and the Sharks deciding NY is more than big enough for the both of them and the knife fight isn't really necessary.
However - I'd say realism can be its own argument as an overall imrpvoement to gameplay.
- Having 1 guy tote it 40 times smashing defenders when he gets hit by 4-5 guys per play and never take a breaks is a bit wonky.
- That said, its not about nerfing running , I think a back late in the game whose invested in conditoning at 100 or 95 or 100+ and the defensive line has been running around all game ought to be at a distinct advantage busting you up if the defensive line is exhausted.
- I think the QB bleeding energy after handing the ball off or throwing it looks goofy. It's no accident several of the best QBs are mid and late 30's (I wont even mention the 40 year old guy no way to program that) - unless you are running about busting tackles and moving the ball like your a flaminco dancer on a meth bender its not something that should happen......
- and I wonder what would happen on routine completions and pass attempts if the QB energy wasn't being sapped like the poor man who is underbanked and stopping at a pay day loan place
I'd say the upshot is if your team requires and "leans heavy" on one particular positiion or set of plays it would make more sense to need additional depth/players at some of those key positions. The top end result, the benefit you get out of high conditioning seems a little overdone and the bottom end the penalty you get for being gassed seems a little underdone (those are team choices as well). Just a little law of diminishing returns on the top end and some beating on the low end for ignoring it. If your DT is smoked he ought to be the maitre D at a high-end restaurant with the back ...right this way sir. But neither should superman rule the day and never wear down because he's maxed ye old conditioning. Even superman needs a holiday in the fortress of solitude.
Pretty much all of this especially the first part.
However the diminishing return should also show down the impossible to tackle elusives. Not so quick when you’re best down. A way to offset their never ending speed and dodging would be to lower the toughness effect across the board and remove toughness boost or energy loss from B4I. Literally you’re bracing for an impact to not fumble, you’re not balancing better while bracing and you’re not mysteriously gaining body armour on the hit. Toughness and negative conditioning effects slightly bumped May fix a lot, as well as the energy loss on a handoff
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