Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Bobcats
I'm all for promotion and don't think we need any sort of coddling like chemistry grace periods or delayed promotion. Higher level players will move in and disrupt the balance of the current A league regardless of who is demoted and promoted. Because of this, the Canadian A League that we see today will be completely different 15 days from now after the cap has been lifted and all teams have had a chance to retool. If we allow promotion this season or if promotion is put off for next season, the balance of power will shift in the A leagues one of three ways: solely through recruiting, AA teams being demoted, or both. Lack of parity is inevitable in either situation and preventing promotion/demotion or removing chemistry hits will not change that fact.

The threats most people focus on are the threats posed by external teams like the ones relegated from AA. If the chemistry hit is removed, the greatest threat we could face next season is the super-stacked team who recruited efficiently in the non-capped offseason and has no chemistry problems. I think a lot of people are hoping we get chemistry exemptions so they can take a shot at being that team and eat cupcakes for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

We don't need special permission to cheat the system so we can upgrade our teams without penalty. Treat us like everyone else.

I have a question. Do you like your teammates? chances are if we get regulated, the majority of your roster will not be playing for you any longer, your chem and funds will be nothing due to you playing catch up to already established teams. Same will happen to the teams that stay, they will need to catch up to the demoted teams or be demolished. We are in a period in which several positions are hard to fill with quality guys instead of crap builds. To get those guys, you basically have to kiss up and beg for them to join. Is that really what you want to do? The team you own now is helping you ride to the playoffs, do you really want to kick them out the door once you get promoted since they are not high enough to compete.

If Bort is asking for a vote, I, Atropates, Owner of Joliette Minotaur of Canada A8 vote no until a agreeable solution is found.

How will any of that be prevented by eliminating promotion or giving a chem. freeze? In the non-capped offseason some teams will get really good, some teams will get sorta good, some teams will stay bad. Same problems, different wrapper.

Originally posted by Bort
So, it sounds like a majority is against promotion for this season, with some that are for it? How many owners (out of a total of 256 teams) have signed off on the idea?

We could skip the Canada A level in promotions, but I have a feeling that bottom of the barrel Canada AA teams (some of whom have CPU players) might not like the idea.

This was sort of an expiriment to see if we could add teams mid-season in a better way; seems like it worked out ok, except you didn't have 8 more games to play catchup with the higher league.

We're going to lift the cap next season, so you are all probably going to have to do some recruiting since some higher level guys will be able to move in. Will it really make a difference if you're moved up and recruit or stay in the same spot and recruit? Thoughts?

I think the teams that didnt get the extra home game for revenue are the most upset as they lost out on potential $$ for stadium and signing people. Other than that I could really care less if we go up or down.

Eliminating promotion would encourage teams to keep the players they have given that the teams they are facing do not already have 5-6 level higher players. Yes, teams will make offseason moves but there most likely will not be massive overhauls.

The real problem for teams who would be promoted is that they face two equally grim options; option 1 is to overhaul the team and lose all of the chemistry and players that brought them a championship (they will still lose even if they get similarly leveled players since their chemistry will be shot); option 2 is that the team keeps a lot of their players and maintain their team chemistry but then get blown out because they are outleveled.
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Not having promotions would prevent this problem because teams would be encouraged to make only minor changes so that they don't tank their chemistry. Further it be would be difficult to overhaul an entire roster given that Canada A teams don't have that much money to outbid other teams and any advantage gained by overhauling the the team would be checked back by the fact that the other team will have better chemistry.

(Not an owner but I am a GM of a Canada A team)

Originally posted by seanjansen

The real problem for teams who would be promoted is that they face two equally grim options; option 1 is to overhaul the team and lose all of the chemistry and players that brought them a championship (they will still lose even if they get similarly leveled players since their chemistry will be shot); option 2 is that the team keeps a lot of their players and maintain their team chemistry but then get blown out because they are outleveled.


Sounds like your objecting to the promotion and relegation system in general, not just in this specific case. Those criteria you outlined would most likely happen in many promotion cases, not just in the Canada A case we're talking about.

NO PROMOTION!

Originally posted by Bort
So, it sounds like a majority is against promotion for this season, with some that are for it? How many owners (out of a total of 256 teams) have signed off on the idea?

We could skip the Canada A level in promotions, but I have a feeling that bottom of the barrel Canada AA teams (some of whom have CPU players) might not like the idea.

This was sort of an expiriment to see if we could add teams mid-season in a better way; seems like it worked out ok, except you didn't have 8 more games to play catchup with the higher league.

We're going to lift the cap next season, so you are all probably going to have to do some recruiting since some higher level guys will be able to move in. Will it really make a difference if you're moved up and recruit or stay in the same spot and recruit? Thoughts?

My issue is this: if we move up, we basically have to gut our team, which is a shame. Our backups leave, our starters become backups and we move along. It's against the spirit of the game.

Thus, my belief that there should be no promotion this season.

Originally posted by Bort
So, it sounds like a majority is against promotion for this season, with some that are for it? How many owners (out of a total of 256 teams) have signed off on the idea?

We could skip the Canada A level in promotions, but I have a feeling that bottom of the barrel Canada AA teams (some of whom have CPU players) might not like the idea.

If our league didn't open up at all they would be stuck in the same league next season anyway. The owners of teams that are a couple seasons old that still have a lot of CPU players need to devote more time to their team and recruiting.
Originally posted by Bort
This was sort of an expiriment to see if we could add teams mid-season in a better way; seems like it worked out ok, except you didn't have 8 more games to play catchup with the higher league.
I think this experiment worked out. It had a few bumps along the way but all and all it was good. I believe the biggest problem is we need at least one more season to develop our brand new teams into something that can compete in a more mature league. We need more fans, bigger stadiums, and just more time.
Originally posted by Bort

We're going to lift the cap next season, so you are all probably going to have to do some recruiting since some higher level guys will be able to move in. Will it really make a difference if you're moved up and recruit or stay in the same spot and recruit? Thoughts?
It will make a lot of difference. A lot of people are strongly against a promotion. I do not believe after busting our butts to get a group of guys together to play 8 games we as owners are going to take all those starters and replace them with level 20+ players. I personally plan on gaining a few higher level players in the offseason, those that will boost and replace non boosters, but I do not want to completely wipe my team to be able to compete.

I plan on doing what is best for my team. I've seen other teams fall apart because of getting beat badly every game. I'd love to have the trophy but not at the expense of my players and my team.

Originally posted by Lucius
Originally posted by Bort

So, it sounds like a majority is against promotion for this season, with some that are for it? How many owners (out of a total of 256 teams) have signed off on the idea?

We could skip the Canada A level in promotions, but I have a feeling that bottom of the barrel Canada AA teams (some of whom have CPU players) might not like the idea.

This was sort of an expiriment to see if we could add teams mid-season in a better way; seems like it worked out ok, except you didn't have 8 more games to play catchup with the higher league.

We're going to lift the cap next season, so you are all probably going to have to do some recruiting since some higher level guys will be able to move in. Will it really make a difference if you're moved up and recruit or stay in the same spot and recruit? Thoughts?

My issue is this: if we move up, we basically have to gut our team, which is a shame. Our backups leave, our starters become backups and we move along. It's against the spirit of the game.

Thus, my belief that there should be no promotion this season.

I don't understand why you have to gut your team? Read some of my posts in the other threads or even in this one. Those being promoted aren't that far behind the lowest of the AA teams. So what your not on par with the average level for the next Teir up. Guess what.... YOUR NOT SUPPOSED TO BE. The premise of the whole promotion system relegation system is to not allow one team to monopolize the championships in one league unless it is the highest. You are not supposed to just get promoted and be the best of the best in your next league for a few years.

so were not far behind the worst teams?

And that's a reason to want to move up?

"you're going to do worse than the worst non winning teams in the division ahead of you, so were going to put you there"

Logic ftw

You have to stop looking at promotion as a reward and start seeing it for what it is: A new challenge. It means your team has competed with the best this league has to offer and it's time to start the journey from bottom to top again against new, tougher opponents. There's nothing left for you to prove here at this level.

Edit: For promotion to qualify as a reward, you'd need to be able to get promoted and instantly pick up where you left off, dominating the teams around you without the risk of being harmed in any way through things like recruiting new players or chemistry hits. That's not how the game works but that is how promotion is being viewed. That view needs to be adjusted to match up with reality.

Originally posted by Bobcats
You have to stop looking at promotion as a reward and start seeing it for what it is: A new challenge. It means your team has competed with the best this league has to offer and it's time to start the journey from bottom to top again against new, tougher opponents. There's nothing left for you to prove here at this level.

Edit: For promotion to qualify as a reward, you'd need to be able to get promoted and instantly pick up where you left off, dominating the teams around you without the risk of being harmed in any way through things like recruiting new players or chemistry hits. That's not how the game works but that is how promotion is being viewed. That view needs to be adjusted to match up with reality.

Agreed

Can someone explain to me how the best team in Canada A#3 East (http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=3498) can compete with the worst team remaining team in Canada AA 2 (http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=1791)?

Canada A3's best: 13.85 average starting level
Canada AA2's worst team: 18.05 average starting level

Even if every player on Canada A3 boosted and zero players on Canada AA2 boosted (something that will never happen given that the people on Canada AA will most likely boost) the absolute bottom of the barrel team from Canada AA2 would still outclass the newly promoted team by almost a level and a half.

I really feel bad for the owner who has to endure getting promoted and losing pretty much much every single game next year (except for their game against the other promoted team).

Also my earlier criticism is not of promotion in general because other teams in lower leagues are able to start out with better players as opposed to artificially limiting the talent that they are able to acquire. If Canada A had been uncapped this year, I would not have a problem with this because we would have tried to get the best players available when the team was created instead of the best players under level 13 available.
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Further, does anyone have an answer to the issues of money that newly promoted Canada A teams will face in comparison to their Canada AA counterparts?

Teams that are promoted need to be able to compete with the middle teams at the next level not just the bottom teams. Look at almost every team in the upper leagues that has won their championship and moved up. Almost every one of them made the playoffs in their first season in the upper league, many were one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the league. That will not be the case if Canada A is promoted. We need another season to close the gap. It's pretty simple. In any other league, I'd love to be promoted, not this one (after our last game, we may be in no danger of moving up anyway). It's not just skill level, it's the financial side of it as well. Although, I see some teams sold their playoff tickets for suggested retail so they may not get that side of the equation anyway.
-- Andy