Warrior General Games

Originally posted by USC_Trojans
Honestly trips counter isnt what's broken. It's the fact that the teams using it are taking advantage of the fact you basically have to sell out vs the pass unless you want to get torched by te post and wr post all game. The defenses that work against these plays are super vulnerable to trips counter. Not to mention rush defenses are much weaker outside of a handful of teams, MeM made that pretty clear this season. Though I say the state of pass defense forcing people to run these plays has a pretty big part as well.

So what defense isn't vulnerable to trips counter?

For Vet, minimum 5 plays, the following six different plays allow less than 5 YPC against Trips Counter

Dime 2 Inside DB Fire - essentially unusable against any balanced team because it leaves WRs open http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/215391/1304457

Nickel 3-3-5 Under Sam Mike Blitz - also essentially unusable against any pass at the Vet level. I rely on this one a lot in Rookie/Soph.

5-2 Fire 2 Sink - I don't think I need to explain why 99% of teams can't run this against balanced teams in 3WR

Nickel C1 TE Smother - this play may be worth investigating. Only 10 play calls in Vet thus far.

3-4 C1 WR Smother - puts a LB on WR3. So this is disaster.


21 of the 32 plays called 5 or more times vs Trips HB Counter allowed 8+ YPC against Trips Counter.

Originally posted by o The Boss x
From the one game I've seen of your balanced offense my defense held you to 1.6 ypc on 10 attempts, and I was running a pass defense. Just looking at panty, they average about 3.5 ypc on counters in their last couple of games (maybe since people probably have started to figure them out more)

Please continue to abuse them then if you think they're so OP.

I'm done discussing this non-issue.

It really sucks that Corn/crew have rewarded those that complain in the forums, now everyone thinks that if they lobby hard enough, a change will be made in their favor. That's what's wrong with the game. The admins don't play it so have no idea what works/doesn't work. Then tune in to the forums and to see all this bitching and end up making blind tweaks.

On the flip side No Name averaged 10.8 YPC using the play against Hawaii, a team a tier above. I guess your team isn't very good

Maybe pursuit isn't a lolskill?

Originally posted by Parab00n

Yep, lets confuse poor DCing with overpoweredness. Fuck it, just give us 1 defensive play that works against everything. Can't wait to spam ZEB and OWMB 100% of the time next season.

No one's asking for 1 defensive play that works well against everything. There isn't one in 2WR, 4WR, or 2TE that defends well against everything. But we are asking for a play that can defend against it decently while not being complete garbage against passing plays.

I mean, at the end of the day, if it is left untouched, I probably benefit more than any other owner in the game, because the balanced teams I am on are the best balanced teams in the game (SACKS, No Name, HoF). But in the interest of the game I would think the game would be a lot more enjoyable if not everyone was spamming counter plays.

Originally posted by Parab00n
Alright, before everyone wants to nerf this crap in the ground I'll list you some plays that work against Trips Counter since you guys are all too lazy to research your self.


http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/images/tactics/defense_plays/150.jpg - Same thing as above, if CB lines up correctly it works




I did the research and got torched with this play that works. Works great for 20.6 ypc for the offense though.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/images/tactics/defense_plays/150.jpg

Sure it was great against Galatic Heros and Heroine Hero. Tachyon or any other great backs will eat it up. The CB almost never lines up right and even when he does he runs full speed inside.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/226528/2372401

I stacked the strong side with our best run guys, doesn't matter when they all crash to the weak side.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/images/tactics/defense_plays/400.jpg
TE Post 75% completion rate and 83% WR Hook....not an option

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/images/tactics/defense_plays/110.jpg - Get out of here, an Outside Rush play??? Easy to call too
I don't believe it has ever been called against a 3WR set, you call it.

Originally posted by FairForever
So what defense isn't vulnerable to trips counter?

For Vet, minimum 5 plays, the following six different plays allow less than 5 YPC against Trips Counter

Dime 2 Inside DB Fire - essentially unusable against any balanced team because it leaves WRs open http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/215391/1304457

Nickel 3-3-5 Under Sam Mike Blitz - also essentially unusable against any pass at the Vet level. I rely on this one a lot in Rookie/Soph.

5-2 Fire 2 Sink - I don't think I need to explain why 99% of teams can't run this against balanced teams in 3WR

Nickel C1 TE Smother - this play may be worth investigating. Only 10 play calls in Vet thus far.

3-4 C1 WR Smother - puts a LB on WR3. So this is disaster.


21 of the 32 plays called 5 or more times vs Trips HB Counter allowed 8+ YPC against Trips Counter.


That's my point, the state of passing makes it almost impossible to run anything other than plays like mlb cloud. Dime strong overload would work of its wasn't for wr hook/te post demanding a defender sitting in the middle of the field.

Originally posted by Corndog
Maybe pursuit isn't a lolskill?

Is it really Pursuit though? Or does high Pursuit act as a negative?

Here's an example: http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/224542/1876101

On this play CB2 (CB Run Strong) is supposed to fire behind the LOS. He doesn't. He has 75 Pursuit and 59 Blitz Awareness.

The LI is supposed to run to the Strong Flat. He doesn't. He has 62 Pursuit.

The RI is supposed to drop back and move to the Strong Side to replace the LI. He doesn't. He has 79 pursuit.

The LO crashes the TE (which he does).

The SS is the only player that moves to where he's supposed to go. He has 80 Pursuit.

At Tick 17, you can clearly see that the LI is going the opposite way of my Defensive play call and the CB hasn't even attempted to cross the LOS.

At Tick 25, the HB spins direction and starts the Counter. Look where my LI is. He's almost at the Weak Side hash mark. He's NOWHERE near his assigned ZONE. CB2 still hasn't even crossed the LOS yet and is now about to get caught up in the middle of the field.

So what checks did each of my players fail?

My concern is they PASSED the Pursuit check which is WHY they are out of POSITION.

Please explain what checks were made and whether they passed or failed. Only then can we debug the game. (And stop the "we don't want to give out secrets stuff". At some point, you have to acknowledge certain mechanics of the game.)

We all know that some Pass plays are OP. But the problem isn't Defender positioning to the degree that it is for Counters. Pass Defense needs a bump in mechanics like larger Awareness and Deflection radi, etc. But CB1 is covering WR1 in most cases. He's not out of position, he's just not effective enough.

What's annoying about Counters is Defender positioning on the plays. If my guys don't make a tackle, fine. I'm not trying to nerf Counters. Against Man Base and one sided Blitzes, they should torch those D. What I don't understand is when the D play call is specifically diagrammed to defend the counter (CB and HB should be meeting up in the backfield with outside contain by the LI LB), why does it not?

If Central runs a Weak Side play, I can understand big gains. If they Pass, I can understand big gains.

But why are my defenders so far out of position against a Strong Side Counter when I ran a Strong Side Blitz with Outside Contain?

agree xars.


the biggest complaint for me is the defenders don't do what the play says. what is the point then? do we need to add a 'discipline' attribute where when it is low...the players can free style...and as it gets higher - they stick to the play?

Originally posted by FairForever
No one's asking for 1 defensive play that works well against everything. There isn't one in 2WR, 4WR, or 2TE that defends well against everything. But we are asking for a play that can defend against it decently while not being complete garbage against passing plays.

I mean, at the end of the day, if it is left untouched, I probably benefit more than any other owner in the game, because the balanced teams I am on are the best balanced teams in the game (SACKS, No Name, HoF). But in the interest of the game I would think the game would be a lot more enjoyable if not everyone was spamming counter plays.

You and everyone else just said exactly what I said you were, you want 1 play that can defend against everything. I just showed you numerous plays that are effective against it. Numerous people came in here saying that it can't defend against the pass and the Counter, THAT IS THE POINT OF A BALANCED OFFENSE. Newsflash, you can run more than 1 type of play in a game for defense!

Originally posted by Corndog
Maybe pursuit isn't a lolskill?
Using Hostile Takeover as an example:

My FS's all have 90 Pursuit, 85 speed.
my Coverage LBs all have 80 Pursuit, 75 speed.
CBs all have 50+ Pursuit, 75 speed.
Our S* SS has 95 Pursuit, 75 speed.

They all have minimum 50 Break Run Block too.

Pursuing a running back to the outside should not be an issue.

They were all designed specifically to be able to protect against outside runs if need be (CB's have silver contain expert for example).

I did manage to hold DD to 6 YPC on 54 runs in the championship game though (mostly counters), so that's better than the 11 YPC average I guess.

Don't give me that pursuit crap, my D is loaded with it.

Originally posted by TxSteve
agree xars.


the biggest complaint for me is the defenders don't do what the play says. what is the point then? do we need to add a 'discipline' attribute where when it is low...the players can free style...and as it gets higher - they stick to the play?

This is about the dumbest shit that's posted here, at what point of the play do defenders abandon their blitz? You guys who think blitzing is the answer are going to be the first ones crying when defenders are running right past plays they should be making because you want them to stick to their assignment.

Originally posted by Aeir
Using Hostile Takeover as an example:
My FS's all have 90 Pursuit, 85 speed.
my Coverage LBs all have 80 Pursuit, 75 speed.
CBs all have 50+ Pursuit, 75 speed.
Our S* SS has 95 Pursuit, 75 speed.

They all have minimum 50 Break Run Block too.

Pursuing a running back to the outside should not be an issue.

They were all designed specifically to be able to protect against outside runs if need be (CB's have silver contain expert for example).

I did manage to hold DD to 6 YPC though on 54 runs in the championship game though (mostly counters), so that's better than the 11 YPC average I guess.

Don't give me that pursuit crap, my D is loaded with it.


I love it that all you guys who didn't invest into Quickness are now pissed that your super fast straight line guys can't change directions for shit. Makes it even worse to the right side where defenders are forced to do a 270 degree turn.

Originally posted by FairForever
No one's asking for 1 defensive play that works well against everything. There isn't one in 2WR, 4WR, or 2TE that defends well against everything. But we are asking for a play that can defend against it decently while not being complete garbage against passing plays.

I mean, at the end of the day, if it is left untouched, I probably benefit more than any other owner in the game, because the balanced teams I am on are the best balanced teams in the game (SACKS, No Name, HoF). But in the interest of the game I would think the game would be a lot more enjoyable if not everyone was spamming counter plays.

So you want 1 play that can do everything? I mean, you say you aren't asking for it then you turn around and say that's exactly what you want.

Originally posted by FairForever
So what defense isn't vulnerable to trips counter?

For Vet, minimum 5 plays, the following six different plays allow less than 5 YPC against Trips Counter

Dime 2 Inside DB Fire - essentially unusable against any balanced team because it leaves WRs open http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/215391/1304457

Nickel 3-3-5 Under Sam Mike Blitz - also essentially unusable against any pass at the Vet level. I rely on this one a lot in Rookie/Soph.

5-2 Fire 2 Sink - I don't think I need to explain why 99% of teams can't run this against balanced teams in 3WR

Nickel C1 TE Smother - this play may be worth investigating. Only 10 play calls in Vet thus far.

3-4 C1 WR Smother - puts a LB on WR3. So this is disaster.


21 of the 32 plays called 5 or more times vs Trips HB Counter allowed 8+ YPC against Trips Counter.


Why is putting a LB on a TE a disaster? Ever heard of a coverage LB?

Why can't 99% of teams not run a Zone play? I've already showed you that Zone Awareness isn't super important? Pump Fake works just as well on guys with 13 ZA as it does on guys with 75. The big advantage all these man defenses will have running zone is that Head Fake will be a lot less effective against you.