Warrior General Games

Originally posted by bhall43
Everyone keeps saying Cover Tech is overrated but that Chase Down is a great SA that we should be having gold in to cover obviously broken routes? Are we playing the same game? Because it really doesn't sound like it.

It's highly likely that none of us know anything about what we're talking about, but it's important for us all to blather on contentiously as if we're the smartest person in the room while usingly confusingly inappropriate emotes to end our statements!

Its funny...Every season there has been threads and new trend about CB builds. Its funny, how still no one knows what a CB actually needs

Originally posted by peeti
Its funny...Every season there has been threads and new trend about CB builds. Its funny, how still no one knows what a CB actually needs

I know we've changed what we want ours to be doing at least twice. They've ended up as Jack-of-All-Trades as such.

Originally posted by TDiddy8701
I barely hit toughness, snap reaction, and heart on my CBs

And if you get even a tough of bad RNG to start a game, or the other team goes on a long successful passing drive, you lose the entire game right there because you're CB's are done on morale.

Originally posted by
if you just care about stopping the pass, ignore break run block... bring those CBs good at it in only for run-stopping formations

Because a team can carry two full sets of CB's....

Originally posted by
cov tech is overrated

You're wrong. You're very, very wrong.

Originally posted by
xav, you can't have EVERYTHING on CBs... pick and choose what you care about, then build from there

I don't want everything. I want the number of skills required to play coverage successfully to match the number of skills a WR needs to play catch successfully. Because of the Footwork requirement to make turns, CB's are behind.

Originally posted by
it's like complaining it's hard to build a WR that's REALLY fast with great hands, a RB than runs through people as well as around them, a QB than is an amazing runner AND passer, etc etc etc. PICK AND CHOOSE!

None of those things are particularly hard. The WR you describe is three skills, maybe four. The HB has more skills you need to build, but just don't pick any specialist traits at creation, or cross traits against stats. '

Originally posted by
all you do is complain complain complain, and it's really getting old

Wait. I'm not the one who was crying ZOMG NERF QB ROLLOUT even though there was ample evidence to the contrary. So not complaining then.

I'm not complaining now. I'm pointing out two very obvious things.

1. CB's require more skills to perform their basic duty than the WR's they're meant to cover.
2. The backpedal turn is flat out broken.

My solutions:
1. Buff up the effect of CB skills that are associated with deep/out coverage slightly so that they match up with WR's who've spent the same number of points on those skills. This is easier than trying to figure out how to get the skill counts to match up given that we're not talking all possible WR's routes, nor do I want WR's to get nerfed in any way.

2. Fix the turns so that the CB turns to stay as close as possible to the WR throughout the turn.

Xav, your arguments are giving me tired head.

CBs don't need as much sprinting as a WR. You don't need 100 sprinting to cover a 100 sprinting WR. If you shave that to even 85 sprinting, you know how many skill points that frees up?

Let's assume a CB with egotist and 10 speed/10 agility for some math.

If you have 25 footwork and 100 sprinting, shaving sprinting to 85 frees up enough skill points to take 25 footwork to 74.

You're just being lazy Xav.

As for the turns being broken, maybe, but I don't think we can say that for sure yet. Entirely possible it's build problem. For all we know, those CBs are getting faked and frozen/turned around by the WR much like happens in real football. Other than the overt head fake though, you don't see when the route elusiveness soft fakes occur. They're unanimated.

Originally posted by Galithor

As for the turns being broken, maybe, but I don't think we can say that for sure yet.

Dear fucking lord YES WE ABSOLUTELY CAN.

Hell they are broken TWO different ways. Between the frozen part and the turn that is the entirely wrong way.

Originally posted by Galithor
As for the turns being broken, maybe, but I don't think we can say that for sure yet. Entirely possible it's build problem. For all we know, those CBs are getting faked and frozen/turned around by the WR much like happens in real football. Other than the overt head fake though, you don't see when the route elusiveness soft fakes occur. They're unanimated.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/58809/2233151
That's a slow TE, playing OOP which means getting Maizehounds shiny new OOP penalties, making a CB look really bad because the CB turns back towards the line as the TE runs past him. How can you possibly watch plays like that and think that the turn isn't broken? And there is no getting fake or anything.

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/70245/2204141
CB3 flat out stops even though he's supposed to be in man coverage. How is that not broken?

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/70245/2204222
Ya. Great idea watching the QB and not the TE running past and then out into open space.

Btw, Gal, I know you know coverage is broken. You're current game plan takes blatant advantage of it. If you didn't think that, why are you now running so many out routes? And since you do run plays specifically aimed at exploiting the broken coverage, how can you possibly be arguing that it's just builds or that any defender who's going to play coverage is required to take Closing Speed, or any of the other silly thinks you're proposing?

Originally posted by bhall43
Hell they are broken TWO different ways. Between the frozen part and the turn that is the entirely wrong way.

You're 100% certain the hitch that sometimes happens isn't the result of a route elusiveness fake on the cut? I'm jealous of your access to the code in the game.

Show me a turn the wrong direction that involves more than a 180 degree change of facing. Every time I see it, it's because the CB's facing is angled in towards the center of the field, and then the Reciever's path changes on a flag route by 45 degrees to put them on a new trajectory that's 180 degrees from the CBs facing. Turning right or left at that point would only be a very subtle change.

Originally posted by Xavori

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/70245/2204141
CB3 flat out stops even though he's supposed to be in man coverage. How is that not broken?


I think something is in the code to freeze or fake out the CB by the QB when Quick Read fires. He freezes right when Quick Read fires.

Originally posted by Galithor
You're 100% certain the hitch that sometimes happens isn't the result of a route elusiveness fake on the cut? I'm jealous of your access to the code in the game.


I don't need code to the game to see it is broken. I have access to all my teams builds as well as some other teams and I run defenses constantly. You continually saying this is a build problem is absolutely ridiculous because it happens from Rookie to Journeyman in the exact same manner. Are these builds not improving? What sort of min/maxing do I have to do with my CB to make it stop? We obviously know it doesn't take much for a WR.

As Xavori said though, you obviously know it is broken but you keep making these ridiculous arguments because it is essentially what Air Raid is built upon taking advantage of right now.

Originally posted by nortobc
I think something is in the code to freeze or fake out the CB by the QB when Quick Read fires. He freezes right when Quick Read fires.

It happens with or without QB SA's firing. It is a lot more common in the red zone on short passes, but it happens everywhere.

And Gal, watch these turns and tell me it's a build issue:
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/68373/1781559
and another
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/68373/1781783

There is no build that tells the CB not to turn to the inside on out routes. The turn is broken. On top of that, it's always wrong for a DB to line up inside of the guy he's covering and then face the QB. It makes it impossible to watch the QB and the WR. The only reason it's not a total disaster in GLB2 is that DB's get psychic abilities so they know when the guy who's behind them is getting away before they make their backwards turn. Also, on alignment, the DB has no help to the outside, so they're supposed to be making it harder to get there.

Anyway, Gal, your offense is unstoppable by the defense. Your offense is either stopping itself via drops, or by the other team's offense keeping you off the field. Go check out how very few PD's or INT's the best DB's in the game have and tell me they're having any real effect on your offense which only requires 1 in 3 plays to be complete to sustain drives.

On the first one Xav, frame 28. The two facings for each player as the WR cuts are directly 180 degrees opposite. No matter which way the CB turns, he's got to change facing 4 times out of the 8 possible sprite facings in GLB2. Frankly, him turning the deeper direction is probably better for preventing more homeruns.

Now, if you wanna argue the CB should keep an east-west facing, and thus be induced to turn to the right there, that's cool. Arguing for having them DB playing on the outside instead of the inside, also cool. But when he's facing exactly opposite of the new WR pathing, the turn to the left is the correct turn because his momentum will increase in the correct direction to gain depth sooner, which is a good damn idea without over the top help.

I think you've got a very inflated view on how many deflections a CB should be getting. It's not THAT common a play in real football. Ya'll had 10 against Air Raid for basically a 12-13% deflection rate. We dropped a small handful of passes. We overthrew or got nearby defensed on the majority of our misses.

And with all that, we were decidedly NOT very efficient against Lost Lounge. 6 YPA is on the low end. We punted 6 times, and were held to 4 FG attempts, all of which were 40+ yard attempts. That's 10 drives that we didn't just blow down the field against you. You're right, we're totally unstoppable. Funnily enough, Lost Lounge also had 10 failed drives. 8 punts and 2 interceptions. That's the difference in the game. Our "non-successful" drives were more successful than yours. Other than that, we both scored 5 touchdowns. Giving us both 33% success rates on our drives for that game. Yes, clearly passing is overpowered. We score touchdowns on 33% of our drives against another top team, and they do the same back to us. Oh the humanity!

Every time people describe this game with %'s and numbers I just

All one has to do is watch the game.