Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by todd_terps_62

I disagree. The HB is trying to throw a fake. Period. He's throwing it at anyone watching. Some guys are more likely to fall for it. It's not as simple as "HB throws fake. Fake works. Fake applies to Biggest Threat." The biggest threat may be a guy built to not fall for the fake.

My example Urlacher was the biggest threat. As far as players go, Urlacher is less likely to be fooled then Mike Brown. Hence, the lesser threat is more likely to be the one to fall for the fake.

Agree - if you're always just targeting the "biggest threat" it's likely you'll never fake anyone at all, because the biggest threat won't get faked.

Why do you say "because the biggest threat won't get faked"?

I think it is important to note that this change is only one SUCCESSFUL fake per tick, not one fake chance per tick.

Originally posted by todd_terps_62
Originally posted by wombat killer

It seems like some people are saying the HB just throws out a "general" juke and multiple people can fall for it. That just seems wrong. Especially if he is limited to one juke per tic. He should be specifically trying to juke the biggest threat. It either works or it doesn't. I don't see how another defender would impact this.

I don't think any HB says, "I'm going to juke, but it only applies to the MLB." I think they'll take what they can get because there are multiple threats and the idea is to avoid all of them....or as many as possible....so you can't get too specific.

I totally disagree. The HB is looking at the player he is trying to fake. There may be multiple players who can see the HB and may get faked.

Originally posted by wombat killer
Why do you say "because the biggest threat won't get faked"?

I think Bort meant "biggest threat" as in the guy with the best build. I imagine there is some code that a ball carrier uses to rank the threats to run away from. I have two guys in front of me, which one do I want to cut toward? The guy that is the worst tackler/player.

Probably something like the pass coverage code, where the QB tries to avoid the guys that are covered by the best CBs.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by todd_terps_62

I disagree. The HB is trying to throw a fake. Period. He's throwing it at anyone watching. Some guys are more likely to fall for it. It's not as simple as "HB throws fake. Fake works. Fake applies to Biggest Threat." The biggest threat may be a guy built to not fall for the fake.

My example Urlacher was the biggest threat. As far as players go, Urlacher is less likely to be fooled then Mike Brown. Hence, the lesser threat is more likely to be the one to fall for the fake.

Agree - if you're always just targeting the "biggest threat" it's likely you'll never fake anyone at all, because the biggest threat won't get faked.

Bort Agreed with ME!!!! I rule!

Originally posted by PackMan97
Originally posted by wombat killer

Why do you say "because the biggest threat won't get faked"?

I think Bort meant "biggest threat" as in the guy with the best build. I imagine there is some code that a ball carrier uses to rank the threats to run away from. I have two guys in front of me, which one do I want to cut toward? The guy that is the worst tackler/player.

Probably something like the pass coverage code, where the QB tries to avoid the guys that are covered by the best CBs.

I meant closest to making the tackle. Regardless of build. I think it would be pretty crazy to think the HB is going to instantly evaluate who is trying to tackle him.

Originally posted by wombat killer
Originally posted by PackMan97

Originally posted by wombat killer


Why do you say "because the biggest threat won't get faked"?

I think Bort meant "biggest threat" as in the guy with the best build. I imagine there is some code that a ball carrier uses to rank the threats to run away from. I have two guys in front of me, which one do I want to cut toward? The guy that is the worst tackler/player.

Probably something like the pass coverage code, where the QB tries to avoid the guys that are covered by the best CBs.

I meant closest to making the tackle. Regardless of build. I think it would be pretty crazy to think the HB is going to instantly evaluate who is trying to tackle him.

I agree. But, being the closest does not mean that you should automatically be the one who falls for the fake, even if it is directed at you.

Perhaps I was slightly unclear earlier.

The "range" is determined by the HB's vision, correct?

So a HB with higher vision is more likely to waste his fake on a player who is too far away to make the play anyway, right?

Originally posted by wombat killer
Originally posted by PackMan97

Originally posted by wombat killer


Why do you say "because the biggest threat won't get faked"?

I think Bort meant "biggest threat" as in the guy with the best build. I imagine there is some code that a ball carrier uses to rank the threats to run away from. I have two guys in front of me, which one do I want to cut toward? The guy that is the worst tackler/player.

Probably something like the pass coverage code, where the QB tries to avoid the guys that are covered by the best CBs.

I meant closest to making the tackle. Regardless of build. I think it would be pretty crazy to think the HB is going to instantly evaluate who is trying to tackle him.

If Papa Smurf running at you and Ray Lewis is running at you. Who would you try to juke?

Originally posted by todd_terps_62
Originally posted by wombat killer

Originally posted by PackMan97


Originally posted by wombat killer



Why do you say "because the biggest threat won't get faked"?

I think Bort meant "biggest threat" as in the guy with the best build. I imagine there is some code that a ball carrier uses to rank the threats to run away from. I have two guys in front of me, which one do I want to cut toward? The guy that is the worst tackler/player.

Probably something like the pass coverage code, where the QB tries to avoid the guys that are covered by the best CBs.

I meant closest to making the tackle. Regardless of build. I think it would be pretty crazy to think the HB is going to instantly evaluate who is trying to tackle him.

I agree. But, being the closest does not mean that you should automatically be the one who falls for the fake, even if it is directed at you.

Perhaps I was slightly unclear earlier.

Of course he shouldn't be automatically the one that gets faked. But if he fails his fake roll he should be the one faked.

Originally posted by AngryDragon
I wonder if any tests have been done for this or are scheduled to be done?

The most recent update has been on the test server for a couple weeks now. We may see a new "avoid fake" VA next season, though we may not. I've also done plenty of private testing with the "gloves" on and off, juke abilities turned up and down.

The fact is that if a defender HAS to have a skill to not utterly fail, then all defenders should just have the skill (get a boost to their reactions or whatever). Also, if a tactic is too powerful (I SLAM anyone?) it needs to be toned down, whether that's through a reduction of existing skills, addition of new ones, or adding additional code. Players should not be averaging 15-20 ypc vs defenses that are set up to stop them, unless they are way outleveled. That's pretty silly.

Originally posted by AngryDragon
Originally posted by wombat killer

Originally posted by PackMan97


Originally posted by wombat killer



Why do you say "because the biggest threat won't get faked"?

I think Bort meant "biggest threat" as in the guy with the best build. I imagine there is some code that a ball carrier uses to rank the threats to run away from. I have two guys in front of me, which one do I want to cut toward? The guy that is the worst tackler/player.

Probably something like the pass coverage code, where the QB tries to avoid the guys that are covered by the best CBs.

I meant closest to making the tackle. Regardless of build. I think it would be pretty crazy to think the HB is going to instantly evaluate who is trying to tackle him.

If Papa Smurf running at you and Ray Lewis is running at you. Who would you try to juke?

In this hypothetical, am I also a Smurf? Or am I regular sized?

Originally posted by PackMan97
Originally posted by wombat killer

Why do you say "because the biggest threat won't get faked"?

I think Bort meant "biggest threat" as in the guy with the best build. I imagine there is some code that a ball carrier uses to rank the threats to run away from. I have two guys in front of me, which one do I want to cut toward? The guy that is the worst tackler/player.

Probably something like the pass coverage code, where the QB tries to avoid the guys that are covered by the best CBs.

Yeah, it's likely that the "biggest threat" is going to be the guy least likely to get faked out. You might as well fake out some other guys if you can, and try to get away from him instead, no?

Originally posted by wombat killer
I meant closest to making the tackle. Regardless of build. I think it would be pretty crazy to think the HB is going to instantly evaluate who is trying to tackle him.

Closest in distance or ability? (please ignore the mixed era here) Let's say you are LaDainian Tomlinson, and you are breaking away on a run. You have Deon Sanders right in front of you just a few steps away and Troy Polamalu closing on an angle. Who are you going to worry about? The guy that has NEVER trained his tackling (Deon), or the beast that is about to devour you (Troy). Trust me, if you are LT, you pretty much ignore Deon and focus on avoiding Troy.

Why not? That's what the best HB's in real life do. They know who to try and plow, who to spin, who to head fake and juke. Who to try and beat to the left, to the right, etc. While much of it is instinct, all of that film watching is done for a reason...to learn every guy that you will face on the field.

Originally posted by Bort
If the carrier sees the defender ready to tackle, he gets to try and fake him.

So, with the new system, does that mean there are more vision checks involved?