Warrior General Games

Exactly. I can think of a lot of examples to which you might be referring.

Like tournament propositions. But you know what actually happens in those threads? Someone proposes a tournament and 50 people post saying "loldots" "this isn't worthwhile" "you're barking up the wrong tree" etc. That isn't insulting someone, it's simply not caring. And it isn't against the rules.

Then there are examples like Roctronic. But he didn't simply come in as a wide-eyed doe caring abotu the dots. He declared his presence in CPL with a big "FUCK YOU GUYS IM BETTER", and was met with hostility.

Where's the example of the innocent guy being molested solely because he spends some time on his dots?

Pro-tip: I have spent an embarassing number of hours working on my team's roster for this year.

I have an idea.

How about we just agree not to shit on threads like GG threads and 'hi I am new to CPL' threads, because lets face it we can shit on the truly terrible posters when they post in other threads anyway.

This way, they can't argue they're being 'pushed out' because they're getting to keep the 2/3 tediously dull threads they'd have in any other league forum.

And yes, this is coming from the guy who started the 'fuck all GG threads everywhere forever' movement, I know. But I'd make the sacrifice if it meant the whiners would stfu.

Originally posted by Catullus 16
Originally posted by Deathblade

I honestly think a lot of the hate is extremely exaggerated views of the forum, along with being a little bit uptight and douchey. I mean really...bitching about someone saying fuck? You don't have anything better to do?

I mean, people say "A, AA, and AAA were great forums"...then you go and look, and they get about 10-15 posts a day, and 3/4 of them are filled with subtle insults, and condescending remarks. The only difference is, one is about dotball, and the other is in response to that person bitching about the forum.

Can they really expect to go into a forum, rant about how terrible it is, insult everyone and call them childish, then freak the fuck out when they get told to eat a bowl of dicks? People can come into CPL and get along just fine. Chessey and r87 are fairly good examples. I think most of the people who can't do so either take the internet/dotball WAY too seriously, or have decided that they hate the forum before they even read an entire thread, and either decide that they always hate it, or that they are going to "make a stand" to try and change it...which is usually them trolling and insulting everyone.

very true... and several forums (especially certain PFs) are victims of this as well.

and i think it's well-established that the CPL is active... no one's questioning that or the virtue of that activity. the pivotal issue here is that the CPL is only enjoyable for some of the league that it supposedly represents... and other people find it incredibly irritating.

there's a reason why this is a constant issue... so i don't think it works to throw up a false caricature of the opposition and blame it all on them. in situations like this, timelines are important -- it also doesn't work to look at a person who now is completely enraged and ignore the fact that they weren't always that way.

and here's another question: is there anything wrong with people taking dotball so seriously? isn't that precisely the sort of customer that bort should want to cultivate? that doesn't mean that they're hypersensitive or anything (cf. false caricature)... it just means they would seriously rather talk about dots than swap memes. so is there a place for them? shouldn't the league forum (by default/definition) be that place?

i'm not saying that the CPL should be evicted... i'm saying that the opposition isn't automatically wrong/childish/etc for disagreeing.

I've said over and over that CPL isn't blameless. But that doesn't mean that theyr'e completely at fault or guilty of all of which they've been accused, as y ou know.

Also, I'm going to re-iterate, my biggest problem is the behavior of horse shit mods in this situaiton. Mods ought to be held to a higher standard, yet they're operating at a lower level.

Originally posted by Catullus 16
i'm not saying that the CPL should be evicted... i'm saying that the opposition isn't automatically wrong/childish/etc for disagreeing.
Oh, well, they are, but we can still accommodate them.

No, I admit there is nothing wrong with taking dotball seriously (and obv. CPLers take it somewhat seriously, lest we would've dissipated by now), but too seriously that you can't even take a joke? Yes. Look at Marblehead for example, quite possibly the most srs dotballers of all, and they're frequent contributors to the CPL forum.

The issue is, generally, people who take dotball too seriously have a myriad of other social issues that preclude them from a). having a sense of humour, and b). not being a douche.

Originally posted by Asheme
Originally posted by Catullus 16
i mean, here's the very first forum rule, which the CPL flouts with hilarious impunity:
We encourage debate and lively discussion. However, we will not tolerate hate speech, personal attacks, racism, disparaging remarks about others' sexuality, insulting posts, purposeless inflammatory posts, or other actions that degrade the site experience for other users. Please treat other people with respect, including the mods and administrators of this site.
I could likely link you 10 threads from the first page alone in USA Pro that do the same.
This isn't really about the rules, cat, it's about certain people disliking CPL's culture of not caring on a site full of care.

the fact that other forums have similar problems doesn't mean that the CPL is thus perfect.

if the question is whether or not the CPL generally abides by the forum rules, you'd have to grant the the opposition's claim is pretty much correct. but the logical misstep that they make is assuming that that fact necessitates prompt action by the mods along the lines that they prefer. we obviously don't have enough mods to make every forum obey all the rules (even if our current collection of rules were even halfways enforceable).

so i think we can leave USPL and other forums out of it, other than to note that there's a serious disconnect between the forum rules and how the forums actually behave. the point remains that the CPL (more than any other forum that i'm aware of) seems to have a lot of these problems with great frequency. so we can either blame the complainers and say it's actually their fault for complaining... or we can find a structural solution to solve/prevent things.

i mean, wouldn't all of you rather be talking about something else right now? i fail to see how a compromise (no matter how cheesy) isn't a good thing here.

Sometime last season Queen City needed the Beans to beat some team to give QC the tie breaker to make the playoffs.

Beans won, I posted in some thread quoting SI thanking him for getting us in the playoffs.

I am still alive.

Originally posted by Vando
I have an idea.

How about we just agree not to shit on threads like GG threads and 'hi I am new to CPL' threads, because lets face it we can shit on the truly terrible posters when they post in other threads anyway.

This way, they can't argue they're being 'pushed out' because they're getting to keep the 2/3 tediously dull threads they'd have in any other league forum.

And yes, this is coming from the guy who started the 'fuck all GG threads everywhere forever' movement, I know. But I'd make the sacrifice if it meant the whiners would stfu.

This is waht I've been saying. They ALREADY don't get shat upon.

However, a relevant idea would be sorta swearing in these new CPL mods with the understanding that they would act in the event that threads like that are indeed shat upon. And I would support that idea.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Vando

I have an idea.

How about we just agree not to shit on threads like GG threads and 'hi I am new to CPL' threads, because lets face it we can shit on the truly terrible posters when they post in other threads anyway.

This way, they can't argue they're being 'pushed out' because they're getting to keep the 2/3 tediously dull threads they'd have in any other league forum.

And yes, this is coming from the guy who started the 'fuck all GG threads everywhere forever' movement, I know. But I'd make the sacrifice if it meant the whiners would stfu.

This is waht I've been saying. They ALREADY don't get shat upon.

However, a relevant idea would be sorta swearing in these new CPL mods with the understanding that they would act in the event that threads like that are indeed shat upon. And I would support that idea.

gonna make a new thread for this idea.

The forum rules do not exist to be applied 100%, they exist so when a mod has to ban Random Dickhead #5352 they can shut them the fuck up by quoting the rules at them. Can we please stop discussing if CPL follows the rules because that is not what the rules are for.

Originally posted by Catullus 16
and here's another question: is there anything wrong with people taking dotball so seriously? isn't that precisely the sort of customer that bort should want to cultivate? that doesn't mean that they're hypersensitive or anything (cf. false caricature)... it just means they would seriously rather talk about dots than swap memes. so is there a place for them? shouldn't the league forum (by default/definition) be that place?

You see, there's a difference between liking and enjoying dotball, and taking it as a life and death matter. Do I enjoy the game? Yeah, sure. Do I think the outcome of any game proves anything at all? Not really.

So, as you could tell, someone bragging about a dotball win in a forum where everyone feels the same way...it won't really be greeted with congratulations. Can you talk about dotball in CPL? Of course you can. But you will also be laughed at if you take it incredibly serious, and act like it is real life.

For instance..."X team is new to CPL, and we are ready to kick ASS!!!".

That's going to be met with, "loldots", and "We don't care"...because...we don't care. The the person has one of two routes, accept that people don't care, pull the stick out of there ass, and have a good time...or they can profusely claim that they are superior and get offended by the lack of caring. Yetis for example...the sole reason that they hated the CPL forums is because all of their useless trash talk fell on deaf ears that don't give a damn about it.

Originally posted by Vando
I have an idea.

How about we just agree not to shit on threads like GG threads and 'hi I am new to CPL' threads, because lets face it we can shit on the truly terrible posters when they post in other threads anyway.

This way, they can't argue they're being 'pushed out' because they're getting to keep the 2/3 tediously dull threads they'd have in any other league forum.

And yes, this is coming from the guy who started the 'fuck all GG threads everywhere forever' movement, I know. But I'd make the sacrifice if it meant the whiners would stfu.

Shitting on the new teams is like your guys tradition though. You can't sell out!

I mean, perhaps certain users who's username rhymes with bumcrunchable are a little coarse about it, but it is still amusing.

EDIT: agree with asheme actually; they don't get 'shit on'. 15 ppl saying, 'you will gut by week 12' isn't being rude or harassing, that's straight up GLB competition talk 0_o

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Still arguable. What do you consider disrespect? I don't consider it disrespectful to tell someone to eat a bowl of dicks (pending intent). You have any idea how many times I"ve told my friends/roommates to do that?
it's obviously context-driven... i definitely wouldn't say that to my grandmother, for example.

so looking at it that way, the problem is that the CPL represents a context that's incredibly clear to its regulars, but a radical departure for any neophyte. so here's a different compromise -- throw up a "welcome to CPL" thread or something and when a person first steps foot into the CPL, point them to it. if their first experience was a little bit of education instead of a wall of flaming, a lot of these issues would be avoided.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Not to mention that that rule is flotued in every single forum on GLB that has more than 10 posts. Moderators flout it regularly. Some admins flout it. So it isn't as simple as any action that degrades the site experience for other users is banned. That's ridiculous and impossible.
fully agree.

but you realize this also means that the opposition is right in their claim. their claim is more or less irrelevant, but they're still right.

Originally posted by r87
Originally posted by Vando

I have an idea.

How about we just agree not to shit on threads like GG threads and 'hi I am new to CPL' threads, because lets face it we can shit on the truly terrible posters when they post in other threads anyway.

This way, they can't argue they're being 'pushed out' because they're getting to keep the 2/3 tediously dull threads they'd have in any other league forum.

And yes, this is coming from the guy who started the 'fuck all GG threads everywhere forever' movement, I know. But I'd make the sacrifice if it meant the whiners would stfu.

Shitting on the new teams is like your guys tradition though. You can't sell out!

I mean, perhaps certain users who's username rhymes with bumcrunchable are a little coarse about it, but it is still amusing.
Oh they'd still get shit on in other threads, don't you worry.

Originally posted by Catullus 16
the fact that other forums have similar problems doesn't mean that the CPL is thus perfect.

if the question is whether or not the CPL generally abides by the forum rules, you'd have to grant the the opposition's claim is pretty much correct. but the logical misstep that they make is assuming that that fact necessitates prompt action by the mods along the lines that they prefer. we obviously don't have enough mods to make every forum obey all the rules (even if our current collection of rules were even halfways enforceable).

so i think we can leave USPL and other forums out of it, other than to note that there's a serious disconnect between the forum rules and how the forums actually behave. the point remains that the CPL (more than any other forum that i'm aware of) seems to have a lot of these problems with great frequency. so we can either blame the complainers and say it's actually their fault for complaining... or we can find a structural solution to solve/prevent things.

i mean, wouldn't all of you rather be talking about something else right now? i fail to see how a compromise (no matter how cheesy) isn't a good thing here.
Well, I did say I'm fine with a GG forum. Or, as Vando proposed (also known as Vando Slayer of GG Threads), a moratorium on posting in new ppls"Hey, we're new" and "GG" threads.

Of course I don't think CPL is perfect or blameless or perfectly smooth-skinned with lavender sweat and taut sweater muffins, I just think hiding behind forum rules while other league forums blatantly break the same rules is ridiculous. The numerous mod raids, the obvious anti-CPL bias, CPL miscast as FFA pt.2, etc., is what bothers me.

Originally posted by Azure Dreams
Originally posted by Vando

I have an idea.

How about we just agree not to shit on threads like GG threads and 'hi I am new to CPL' threads, because lets face it we can shit on the truly terrible posters when they post in other threads anyway.

This way, they can't argue they're being 'pushed out' because they're getting to keep the 2/3 tediously dull threads they'd have in any other league forum.

And yes, this is coming from the guy who started the 'fuck all GG threads everywhere forever' movement, I know. But I'd make the sacrifice if it meant the whiners would stfu.

This is waht I've been saying. They ALREADY don't get shat upon.

However, a relevant idea would be sorta swearing in these new CPL mods with the understanding that they would act in the event that threads like that are indeed shat upon. And I would support that idea.

Oh, I was assuming that people started calling them faggots or something in the end, all I've seen is 'you will gut by week x' and 'who are you we don't care', but then I don't generally read such threads past page 1 so I always assumed they turned into complete shit later on.