Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by blln4lyf

Would it still emulate the power setting though, I am not sure the Safest route vs Riskier route really captures that, as it might lean towards elusives. That could be adjusted though, surely.

Even a powerback...why would they choose to not run at the angle that will get them the furthest downfield, untouched? I mean, why run 1 yard downfield into a defender, when you can turn slightly and go 2 yards downfield before running into that defender?

Because Arm tackles are easily avoided by them, and sometimes Power Backs don't have the Agility to make easy turns.

Originally posted by StoutOne
Originally posted by Deathblade

Originally posted by blln4lyf


Would it still emulate the power setting though, I am not sure the Safest route vs Riskier route really captures that, as it might lean towards elusives. That could be adjusted though, surely.

Even a powerback...why would they choose to not run at the angle that will get them the furthest downfield, untouched? I mean, why run 1 yard downfield into a defender, when you can turn slightly and go 2 yards downfield before running into that defender?

Because Arm tackles are easily avoided by them, and sometimes Power Backs don't have the Agility to make easy turns.

Yep, as long as the adjustments were still very minor..

Originally posted by Bukowski
Why shouldn't it help the Break Tackle/Juke/Head Fake/Spin roll?

It should help all of those things.

But think of it realistically: does being able to see the field better help you fake out a tackler, besides choosing the correct path or angle at which to approach him? Once you're in front/ in his tackle radius, would vision make him able to fake better? You could argue that more Vision could potentially help see how/when/what fake to use, or which direction to Juke, but I don't think this game will ever progress that far.

Originally posted by StoutOne
Because Arm tackles are easily avoided by them, and sometimes Power Backs don't have the Agility to make easy turns.

So make 100 "safest" into "Super Power" mode, where they just run downfield ignoring everything, plowing over the little men.

Originally posted by Air18
Originally posted by Bukowski

Why shouldn't it help the Break Tackle/Juke/Head Fake/Spin roll?

It should help all of those things.

But think of it realistically: does being able to see the field better help you fake out a tackler, besides choosing the correct path or angle at which to approach him? Once you're in front/ in his tackle radius, would vision make him able to fake better? You could argue that more Vision could potentially help see how/when/what fake to use, or which direction to Juke, but I don't think this game will ever progress that far.

But it does in real life, and that's what we're trying to accomplish with this thread.

What do you think Barry Sanders' best asset was? Besides his Agility, it was his Vision. He was famous for his Vision, which enabled him to be able to fake out defenders from all kinds of crazy angles. It also helped him shed tackles, that lesser RBs might not have been able to see coming.

Marvin Harrison was famous for being able to avoid big hits, because he had the vision (or awareness) to see (or sense) the defender approaching.

Originally posted by Air18
But think of it realistically: does being able to see the field better help you fake out a tackler, besides choosing the correct path or angle at which to approach him? Once you're in front/ in his tackle radius, would vision make him able to fake better? You could argue that more Vision could potentially help see how/when/what fake to use, or which direction to Juke, but I don't think this game will ever progress that far.

You have some catching up to do, I think....

Originally posted by tautology
Originally posted by Air18

But think of it realistically: does being able to see the field better help you fake out a tackler, besides choosing the correct path or angle at which to approach him? Once you're in front/ in his tackle radius, would vision make him able to fake better? You could argue that more Vision could potentially help see how/when/what fake to use, or which direction to Juke, but I don't think this game will ever progress that far.

You have some catching up to do, I think....

Ha yeah, I forgot he just joined in.

Originally posted by Bukowski
Ha yeah, I forgot he just joined in.

Yea my bad, was out late tonight and still a lil drunk . Thanks for not flipping and giving me some credit . It's hard to sit down in your hotel room and read 66 pages. Lol.

Originally posted by Air18
Yea my bad, was out late tonight and still a lil drunk . Thanks for not flipping and giving me some credit . It's hard to sit down in your hotel room and read 66 pages. Lol.

Not as hard as it is to sit down in 66 pages and read a hotel room.

I'll retain my comments to my lolDE'ssucknow thread.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by StoutOne

Because Arm tackles are easily avoided by them, and sometimes Power Backs don't have the Agility to make easy turns.

So make 100 "safest" into "Super Power" mode, where they just run downfield ignoring everything, plowing over the little men.

Sounds ok to me.....I haven't read what these sliders will fully do tbh.

Originally posted by Air18
Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt

I'm guessing in the current sim?
Yes.
In the future sim once vision actually works?
No.

You have to ask yourself... what would more vision ACUTALLY do? Make you see holes better? With 60+ vision (I even find this at 48 vision on my Power HB) I already hit the hole fast enough. What would more Vision do? I don't think it would/should help in the missed tackle/juke/spin/etc. roll. All I can see it doing is making your HB more aware of defenders, which isn't the elusive problem IMO atm.

IMO... Vision should be factored into a HB passing a vision check - once a threat is near the HB (defenders tackle radius intersects the HB's vector path.

1.) If the Vision check is failed...
a.) No Fake/Tackle Avoidance roll should occur. Fake Score = 0.
b.) The defender gets his tackle roll...
c.) And the tackle roll should be pretty low in order for a successful tackle to occur.

Result = No Fake or Tackle avoidance made by the HB... And the defender either makes or misses the tackle.

2.) If the Vision check is passed... A Fake/Tackle Avoidance roll should occur.
a.) See the sub roll comments made by me a few pages back... The Fake/Tackle Avoidance roll score would be acquired by the HB.
b.) The defender gets his tackle roll...
c.) And the tackle roll score should be matched against the fake roll/tackle avoidance roll score... Higher score wins.

Result = Higher roll score wins

Agility, Carrying, Confidence, AEQ, SA's VA's should determine what type of sub rolls are carried out - and modifiers to make that fake/tackle avoidance roll higher for the Elusive back.

Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt
IMO... Vision should be factored into a HB passing a vision check - once a threat is near the HB (defenders tackle radius intersects the HB's vector path.

1.) If the Vision check is failed...
a.) No Fake/Tackle Avoidance roll should occur. Fake Score = 0.
b.) The defender gets his tackle roll...
c.) And the tackle roll should be pretty low in order for a successful tackle to occur.

Result = No Fake or Tackle avoidance made by the HB... And the defender either makes or misses the tackle.

2.) If the Vision check is passed... A Fake/Tackle Avoidance roll should occur.
a.) See the sub roll comments made by me a few pages back... The Fake/Tackle Avoidance roll score would be acquired by the HB.
b.) The defender gets his tackle roll...
c.) And the tackle roll score should be matched against the fake roll/tackle avoidance roll score... Higher score wins.

Result = Higher roll score wins

Agility, Carrying, Confidence, AEQ, SA's VA's should determine what type of sub rolls are carried out - and modifiers to make that fake/tackle avoidance roll higher for the Elusive back.


Seems logical. But how much vision do you think should be needed to pass the fake roll check?

Originally posted by Air18
Seems logical. But how much vision do you think should be needed to pass the fake roll check?

well you could probably still pass it with lower vision, higher vision just increases your chance at it, so i would assume there is no minimum REQUIRED to pass, but there is a minimum that you should have if you EXPECT to pass.

Originally posted by Air18
Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt

IMO... Vision should be factored into a HB passing a vision check - once a threat is near the HB (defenders tackle radius intersects the HB's vector path.

1.) If the Vision check is failed...
a.) No Fake/Tackle Avoidance roll should occur. Fake Score = 0.
b.) The defender gets his tackle roll...
c.) And the tackle roll should be pretty low in order for a successful tackle to occur.

Result = No Fake or Tackle avoidance made by the HB... And the defender either makes or misses the tackle.

2.) If the Vision check is passed... A Fake/Tackle Avoidance roll should occur.
a.) See the sub roll comments made by me a few pages back... The Fake/Tackle Avoidance roll score would be acquired by the HB.
b.) The defender gets his tackle roll...
c.) And the tackle roll score should be matched against the fake roll/tackle avoidance roll score... Higher score wins.

Result = Higher roll score wins

Agility, Carrying, Confidence, AEQ, SA's VA's should determine what type of sub rolls are carried out - and modifiers to make that fake/tackle avoidance roll higher for the Elusive back.


Seems logical. But how much vision do you think should be needed to pass the fake roll check?

Minimally 48... To even have a shot at the Fake/Tackle avoidance sub rolls. The number of sub rolls are really dependent on Agility, Carrying, Confidence, AEQ, SA's, VA bonuses/stacks...

Like I said before... The lower the value of Vision... The less sub rolls you have access too. The higher the vision... The more sub rolls you have a chance at.

So a back with 48 vision may only be able to roll Quick Cut and Juke.... Or randomly selected two sub rolls. Whichever score is higher is what is taken and goes up against the defenders tackle roll.

But a back with say 70 vision... Well he has a chance to roll Quick Cut, Juke, Head Fake and possibly Spin - which would be four sub rolls for the tackle avoidance score (the highest score taken - all the rest thrown out)... And it is matched up against the defenders tackle roll.

Thus higher vision would in a sense, unlock additional chances for the HB to roll a successful tackle avoidance skill/ability score.

It is getting late, and I am not sure if this makes sense. But it seems logical to me??