Warrior General Games

Originally posted by AFG_vet
My point is, wormser and yourself bring up some interesting factoids and tidbits regarding the conspiracy theory. However, none of your factoids are backed up with evidence of occurrence on 9/11. I don't dispute anything you bring up other than the event was a big conspiracy by the Bush Administration to drag us to Afghanistan and Iraq.

The NSA had the surveillance programs in place for 4 years, and ultimately someone blew the whistle. If what you and wormser assert, then an Obummer lover would certainly have also blown the whistle on the 9/11 conspiracy by now.

The left right thing is an illusion. Have you not noticed that yet?

Originally posted by wormser1971
The left right thing is an illusion. Have you not noticed that yet?

This is a pretty popular talking point.

Originally posted by EmpYllek
Originally posted by Gnosis

false.

all of it


That more scientists and engineers believe the official story than dont is false? Really?

This should be fun because I have actual numbers to back up my argument and you have hocus pocus.

American Society of Civil Engineers: 140k members, 123k believe story.

American Institute of Architects : 85k members, 83 k believe story.

American Society of Mechanical Engineers: 130k members. 120k believe story.

So basically by false you actually mean overwhelmingly true.

30 kids in a classroom + 2 say they don't like the school lunch = 28 kids say they do like it?

Process of elimination fail

Originally posted by NitrousX
30 kids in a classroom + 2 say they don't like the school lunch = 28 kids say they do like it?

Process of elimination fail


You are missing the point I think. He is saying that out of 140k members 123k believe the official story.

Originally posted by baumusc
You are missing the point I think. He is saying that out of 140k members 123k believe the official story.

Yet, that's not true. Most don't even know what the official story is. Most believe what they think is the official story. Much like your belief that ANY explosive used would have shown up on seismographs, yet what is known is that if ONLY explosives like RDX was used, that would have shown up, because of the amount necessary. Does that mean that no explosives were used... no... does it mean that not enough were used to show up on seismographs... yes.

If used in conjunction with an incendiary like thermite... or thermate exclusively... or nano-thermite (found at scene) exclusively... or a combination of these things, would likely not have shown on a seismograph.

However, there were spikes immediately prior to the collapse, but you would like to ignore that, much like many others, because they are too small to be from RDX demolition of a building. But, there were spikes prior to impact from aircraft... by a few seconds. There were also spikes immediately preceding and during collapse. During is expected, but wouldn't that also mask any other explosions? Then there are the videos with an explosion during the video, prior to collapse, but you ignored that, even though those firefighters in the video are real, as well as their reaction.
You also ignored the most recent video I posted, where he used thermite, and created a box cutter. He also directed the thermite on bolts, similar to WTC connections, which created a small explosion. But, hey, ignoring evidence is the only way to cling to the official story, since that is how they came to their conclusions as well.

Originally posted by wormser1971
Yet, that's not true. Most don't even know what the official story is. Most believe what they think is the official story. Much like your belief that ANY explosive used would have shown up on seismographs, yet what is known is that if ONLY explosives like RDX was used, that would have shown up, because of the amount necessary. Does that mean that no explosives were used... no... does it mean that not enough were used to show up on seismographs... yes.

If used in conjunction with an incendiary like thermite... or thermate exclusively... or nano-thermite (found at scene) exclusively... or a combination of these things, would likely not have shown on a seismograph.

However, there were spikes immediately prior to the collapse, but you would like to ignore that, much like many others, because they are too small to be from RDX demolition of a building. But, there were spikes prior to impact from aircraft... by a few seconds. There were also spikes immediately preceding and during collapse. During is expected, but wouldn't that also mask any other explosions? Then there are the videos with an explosion during the video, prior to collapse, but you ignored that, even though those firefighters in the video are real, as well as their reaction.
You also ignored the most recent video I posted, where he used thermite, and created a box cutter. He also directed the thermite on bolts, similar to WTC connections, which created a small explosion. But, hey, ignoring evidence is the only way to cling to the official story, since that is how they came to their conclusions as well.

I am going by what demolition experts have said. You were claiming two things, that C-4 type demolitions were used, (which would register on a seismic level) and that thermite was used, (which does not make an explosion noise when used but instead makes a cutting noise). You then said that people heard explosions before the collapse. I simply stated that since there wasn't any seismic activity before the collapse we know that those explosions did not come from a demo type explosive. Use some common sense, you aren't being a good detective. Also this claim that there was seismic activity before the collision just isn't true, much like a lot of claims have no basis such as the claim that steel beams from the site were quickly shipped over seas to avoid independent examination.

I also have to laugh at the fact that you think that thermite was used on multiple beams at the same time. First of all they would have to use thermite on the level where the crash occurred in order to make it look like the collapse occurred at the floor where the damage was. Of course this would be impossible since those thermite "box cutters" as you claim would have to survive the plane crash itself. Also the video you show is a thermite box cutter applied DIRECTLY to a steel beam. Do you know how invasive it would be for a work crew to setup enough thermite box cutters in the WTC building to collapse the building? Especially if they had to place them on multiple floors since they didn't know exactly where the plane would hit. They would have to expose the beams, remove the fire protection, install the cutters and then cover it all up again. That is a MASSIVE job and surely would have been noticed. The entire scenario is laughable and might only be found in a Oceans 11 movie. You can't possibly believe that is how things went down.

Originally posted by baumusc
I am going by what demolition experts have said. You were claiming two things, that C-4 type demolitions were used, (which would register on a seismic level) and that thermite was used, (which does not make an explosion noise when used but instead makes a cutting noise). You then said that people heard explosions before the collapse. I simply stated that since there wasn't any seismic activity before the collapse we know that those explosions did not come from a demo type explosive. Use some common sense, you aren't being a good detective. Also this claim that there was seismic activity before the collision just isn't true, much like a lot of claims have no basis such as the claim that steel beams from the site were quickly shipped over seas to avoid independent examination.

I also have to laugh at the fact that you think that thermite was used on multiple beams at the same time. First of all they would have to use thermite on the level where the crash occurred in order to make it look like the collapse occurred at the floor where the damage was. Of course this would be impossible since those thermite "box cutters" as you claim would have to survive the plane crash itself. Also the video you show is a thermite box cutter applied DIRECTLY to a steel beam. Do you know how invasive it would be for a work crew to setup enough thermite box cutters in the WTC building to collapse the building? Especially if they had to place them on multiple floors since they didn't know exactly where the plane would hit. They would have to expose the beams, remove the fire protection, install the cutters and then cover it all up again. That is a MASSIVE job and surely would have been noticed. The entire scenario is laughable and might only be found in a Oceans 11 movie. You can't possibly believe that is how things went down.

Ace elevator was working on the elevators and shafts for 8 months... keep up.

They went out of business shortly after, even though they had received the largest contract in elevator history... so, yes, someone was doing stuff where the core columns are located. And their work was in the shafts, allowing them direct access.

And yes... there was other seismic activity!

See... spikes!

http://s3.amazonaws.com/nasathermalimages/public/images/WTC_LDEO_KIM.pdf_Figure1.png

Right at the beginning of collapse.... Pretty damn big spikes

Originally posted by baumusc
I am going by what demolition experts have said. You were claiming two things, that C-4 type demolitions were used, (which would register on a seismic level)
The 1993 wtc truck bomb made no seismic wave. Look it up. Whatever created the spikes at collapse onset for the towers was huge!

It's like I said earlier, baum... You don't even know the official story. You think you do, but you don't..

From NIST

Originally posted by
10. Why were two distinct spikes—one for each tower—seen in seismic records before the towers collapsed? Isn't this indicative of an explosion occurring in each tower?

The seismic spikes for the collapse of the WTC towers are the result of debris from the collapsing towers impacting the ground. The spikes began approximately 10 seconds after the times for the start of each building’s collapse and continued for approximately 15 seconds. There were no seismic signals that occurred prior to the initiation of the collapse of either tower. The seismic record contains no evidence that would indicate explosions occurring prior to the collapse of the towers.

But, that is a blatant lie! Look again at the seismograph yourself!
http://uscrisis.lege.net/911/911seismic.gif

And, you sit claiming that WTC 7 fell because of damage from debris. If you knew the official story, you might have to think again.

Originally posted by NIST

The heat from the uncontrolled fires caused steel floor beams and girders to thermally expand, leading to a chain of events that caused a key structural column to fail. The failure of this structural column then initiated a fire-induced progressive collapse of the entire building.

According to the report's probable collapse sequence, heat from the uncontrolled fires caused thermal expansion of the steel beams on the lower floors of the east side of WTC 7, damaging the floor framing on multiple floors.

Eventually, a girder on Floor 13 lost its connection to a critical column, Column 79, that provided support for the long floor spans on the east side of the building (see Diagram 1). The displaced girder and other local fire-induced damage caused Floor 13 to collapse, beginning a cascade of floor failures down to the 5th floor. Many of these floors had already been at least partially weakened by the fires in the vicinity of Column 79. This collapse of floors left Column 79 insufficiently supported in the east-west direction over nine stories.

Seriously? You still claim debris, even though it was proven wrong, and that theory was abandoned by NIST. Fire, and fire alone caused the collapse of this building. That is impossible!

If you would take time to read the NIST report, maybe you would see that they are wrong in several ways.

http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/wtc_finalreports.cfm

They were asked about many of the problems with their report during a 30 day QnA. They left many unanswered questions.

Originally posted by wormser1971
Ace elevator was working on the elevators and shafts for 8 months... keep up.

They went out of business shortly after, even though they had received the largest contract in elevator history... so, yes, someone was doing stuff where the core columns are located. And their work was in the shafts, allowing them direct access.

And yes... there was other seismic activity!

See... spikes!

http://s3.amazonaws.com/nasathermalimages/public/images/WTC_LDEO_KIM.pdf_Figure1.png

Right at the beginning of collapse.... Pretty damn big spikes

According to demolition experts the seismic activity corresponded to a building collapse, not a demolition and collapse... keep up.

Also now I love how you are pretty much accusing ACE elevator of setting up demolition charges. Your story gets better and better. Those evil Ace elevator repairmen!

Originally posted by wormser1971

The 1993 wtc truck bomb made no seismic wave. Look it up. Whatever created the spikes at collapse onset for the towers was huge!


So now you are saying that C4 type explosives were used? I thought you were claiming it was thermite. Get your story straight and then come back.

Originally posted by wormser1971
The left right thing is an illusion. Have you not noticed that yet?

Dude, grab your guns and supplies - go to the basement and wait for me there. Most importantly - don't come out until I get there.

This whole 'left-right paradigm' stuff just proves your paranoia to me tbh.

Originally posted by AFG_vet
Dude, grab your guns and supplies - go to the basement and wait for me there. Most importantly - don't come out until I get there.

This whole 'left-right paradigm' stuff just proves your paranoia to me tbh.

Really? You seriously think that the party affiliation of the president changes the country or it's policies? What are you, like 12 or something?

Originally posted by baumusc
According to demolition experts the seismic activity corresponded to a building collapse, not a demolition and collapse... keep up.

Also now I love how you are pretty much accusing ACE elevator of setting up demolition charges. Your story gets better and better. Those evil Ace elevator repairmen!

You mean tom sullivan.... One of the leading experts in the world?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns_hjONWZ88 The one who says in this video that it has all of the characteristics of controlled demo.... Is that the expert you're talking about?