Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt

Only problem is the way DE's are built... Their circles based on your theory would be larger than any of the defenders. Hell they would be larger than some HB's!! LOL

Not if they are being blocked >_>

True dat. My bust.

Originally posted by Deathblade
That's been discussed as well, and carried over to the test server, and added to Bort's personal list of things to tinker with.

And for the second part of my pretty circles...
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3082/prettycircles2.jpg

The middle path would like, be the "power" path. The left path would like, require 50+ elusive. The outside path would require 90+ elusive

I think the fundamental problem is that the 90+ path isn't really an elusive path...it's a freakish speed path. You are just trying to outrun the whole defense to the sideline.

To be elusive, you need to be able to make something out what you see, not just spot a hole 20 yards away that you can hit if you have 160 speed.

At least that's my first impression.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by tautology

I still think the elusive back needs to be able to influence the defenders path in a little more nuanced way than just blinking him in order for a solution to be found. Maybe not though...if he could at least anticipate the effect of the blink.

Knowing that a dot is blinked, and knowing how that dots can recover is a key part of the solution. A blinked dot should not be ignored (as it is currently), but should be "understood" in some way by the HB.

That's been discussed as well, and carried over to the test server, and added to Bort's personal list of things to tinker with.

And for the second part of my pretty circles...
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3082/prettycircles2.jpg

The middle path would like, be the "power" path. The left path would like, require 50+ elusive. The outside path would require 90+ elusive

I still see it being a push if the effect of a cut doesn't lead to some type of loss of balance..basically a defender shouldn't be able to do a 180 at full speed in 1 tick.

The other challenge is if you do that... In any of the "I" or Pro formations where there is a blocking FB... How is an OC going to get his Elusive to follow his lead blocker?

Basically it wouldn't make sense to run an Elusive behind a FB. At least I am not following in your diagram how an Elusive back would ever follow his blocker.

Originally posted by tautology
Originally posted by Deathblade

That's been discussed as well, and carried over to the test server, and added to Bort's personal list of things to tinker with.

And for the second part of my pretty circles...
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3082/prettycircles2.jpg

The middle path would like, be the "power" path. The left path would like, require 50+ elusive. The outside path would require 90+ elusive

I think the fundamental problem is that the 90+ path isn't really an elusive path...it's a freakish speed path. You are just trying to outrun the whole defense to the sideline.

To be elusive, you need to be able to make something out what you see, not just spot a hole 20 yards away that you can hit if you have 160 speed.

At least that's my first impression.

Yeah I am kinda getting that read as well. Can't really think of a way to fix that off the top of my head though..if you know you will get tackled taking a angle that picks up an extra yard or two(without the zig zag) might help..anything to really make smart change of directions worth it..which is what I am assuming this circle method is trying to accomplish.

Yeah, it would have to be somewhat adjusted behind a lead blocker, until the RB is out in space, or unless he's challenged by a defender behind the LOS.

Originally posted by tautology
I think the fundamental problem is that the 90+ path isn't really an elusive path...it's a freakish speed path. You are just trying to outrun the whole defense to the sideline.

To be elusive, you need to be able to make something out what you see, not just spot a hole 20 yards away that you can hit if you have 160 speed.

At least that's my first impression.

Yeah, I honestly just put the outside path there for the hell of it.

Ok, going with the whole "cutting makes defenders slower" thing. What about...the sharper the cut in relation to the defender, the more difficult the vision check is to pass?

But at the same time...70-80 vision isn't that outlandish for most defensive players...so what kind of vision check are we talking about?

Originally posted by tautology
Originally posted by Deathblade

That's been discussed as well, and carried over to the test server, and added to Bort's personal list of things to tinker with.

And for the second part of my pretty circles...
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/3082/prettycircles2.jpg

The middle path would like, be the "power" path. The left path would like, require 50+ elusive. The outside path would require 90+ elusive

I think the fundamental problem is that the 90+ path isn't really an elusive path...it's a freakish speed path. You are just trying to outrun the whole defense to the sideline.

To be elusive, you need to be able to make something out what you see, not just spot a hole 20 yards away that you can hit if you have 160 speed.

At least that's my first impression.

Thats a very good point too. Which goes back to having those 'Fake' rolls... When a defender goes to make a tackle (based) on the defenders tackle radius... The Elusive should have a chance to fake. The higher the Vision, Carrying, Confidence, SA+VA+AEQ stack helps with the .... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 combos (sub rolls which can help make the Fake score higher).

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by tautology

I think the fundamental problem is that the 90+ path isn't really an elusive path...it's a freakish speed path. You are just trying to outrun the whole defense to the sideline.

To be elusive, you need to be able to make something out what you see, not just spot a hole 20 yards away that you can hit if you have 160 speed.

At least that's my first impression.

Yeah, I honestly just put the outside path there for the hell of it.

Ok, going with the whole "cutting makes defenders slower" thing. What about...the sharper the cut in relation to the defender, the more difficult the vision check is to pass?

But at the same time...70-80 vision isn't that outlandish for most defensive players...so what kind of vision check are we talking about?

Well assuming it is tick by tick, start it off much harder on the first tick and ease the vision check down..it probably works this way already actually, but seems way way to easy to pass on the first tick.

I have an elusive doing very well in WEPL: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=501789
Here is his Spin production this season starting with game 1:
3, 5, 5, 3, 1, 2, 6, 4, 6, 4

I think it is working just fine.
Special Abilities
Elusive Back Abilities
Quick Cut: 7
Head Fake: 7
First Step: 10
Juke: 10
Spin: 10

Power Back Abilities
Cover Up: 6
Lower the Shoulder: 2
Stiff Arm: 2
Power Through: 2
Dive for Yardage: 0

Originally posted by ultrajer
I have an elusive doing very well in WEPL: http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=501789
Here is his Spin production this season starting with game 1:
3, 5, 5, 3, 1, 2, 6, 4, 6, 4

I think it is working just fine.

Sweet!!!! At least you know your dot isn't broken! Seriously. Not being a dick either!!!

I hate out thinking myself.

I'm blanked

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by tautology

I think the fundamental problem is that the 90+ path isn't really an elusive path...it's a freakish speed path. You are just trying to outrun the whole defense to the sideline.

To be elusive, you need to be able to make something out what you see, not just spot a hole 20 yards away that you can hit if you have 160 speed.

At least that's my first impression.

Yeah, I honestly just put the outside path there for the hell of it.

Ok, going with the whole "cutting makes defenders slower" thing. What about...the sharper the cut in relation to the defender, the more difficult the vision check is to pass?

But at the same time...70-80 vision isn't that outlandish for most defensive players...so what kind of vision check are we talking about?

Are you talking about introducing vision check which needs to be passed to successfully attempt a tackle roll? After a fake or juke?

Originally posted by Deathblade
Yeah, I honestly just put the outside path there for the hell of it.

Ok, going with the whole "cutting makes defenders slower" thing. What about...the sharper the cut in relation to the defender, the more difficult the vision check is to pass?

But at the same time...70-80 vision isn't that outlandish for most defensive players...so what kind of vision check are we talking about?


Tough call.

The tick system is a little too coarse for a black/white freeze/pause scenario...perhaps a vision check where 100 would fairly reliably give you no penalty, but 50 would generally give you a 50% penalty to your agility for one tick (while making the cut)?

Something on that scale?

Originally posted by tautology

Tough call.

The tick system is a little too coarse for a black/white freeze/pause scenario...perhaps a vision check where 100 would fairly reliably give you no penalty, but 50 would generally give you a 50% penalty to your agility for one tick (while making the cut)?

Something on that scale?





I am actually not sure how much of an effect that would be...but it seems reasonable.

Also scale it with the quality of the cut somehow i think.