Originally posted by Mango Fandango
This thread was a complaint not a plea for help.
Clearly.
This thread was a complaint not a plea for help.
Clearly.
Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Game Help > This Defensive AI Strategy Is Unengaging. Unyielding. UnFun.
Mango Fandango
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Originally posted by Xars
Clearly.
It took you 5 pages, but yeah... I've been pretty clear about my stance.
Clearly.
It took you 5 pages, but yeah... I've been pretty clear about my stance.
Raid
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Originally posted by Mango Fandango
Look here's the issue, and perhaps I am clearly not making myself clear. And I'll-slooooowly-type-metaphor-free.
Human error is always likely to occur, especially by someone who is very new to the interface.
So when a play is called for Short distance, no matter whether it's a pass or run or whatever, the short distance play should override the pass/run inputs. Why? Because protecting Short is important. Distance first. Always.
If there are no suitable plays that match the tag for short and pass, for example, then the AI should dial up the most likely short playcall first, not what's the next best thing for Pass/Run. Why? Because protecting Short is important. Distance first. Always.
See where my logic is left behind? So the tactics screen is exactly how I describe it.
Unengaging. Unyielding. UnFun.
It needs overhauling for n00bs, newbs, rookies and casual gamers. It's currently a sh** fest.
I've said it in Discord, and I'll say it here, I can't wait for GLB3. And I hope that they sort out distance priorities first and foremost on defense. Why? Because protecting Short is important. Distance first. Always.
Oh-oh-oh and while I am making suggestions - as unlikely as I'll be heard - I suggest that the developers of GLB buy Stobie's software and pay him handsomely. Then integrate the software into GLB2.
GLB2 Scout is a pay-to-win premium DLC. I had to buy a season's worth to spot the errors in my playcalling. It doesn't stop the errors, cos I'm clearly cr** at understanding the intent behind Passing is more important than distance, but at least I could spot the error right there and then.
If you call for short, and have no short pass plays in the book, you want it to go for an inside run play, outside? run plays have no distance and you didn't have a short pass play selected.
You forgot to put a short pass play in 2WR, so when you asked it to pull a short pass play from 2 wide, what is your solution to what it should do when asked there?
The only other logical solution would be to ignore your % on plays you don't have a tag for, which would require re-writing the entire thing to accomplish as it's going to have to examine your playbook to determine which tags are and aren't in there each time before it starts anything else to determine which of your inputs to ignore. Then it would override things the other way though, as in if you had a play call for 80% pass long and 20% outside run and forget to tag a play pass long - well then you're looking at the outside run defense 100% of the time.
Either way doesn't solve the problem of you not having a play selected for 2 WR short pass, the game has to select another play for you from somewhere - you didn't give it one to run in that situation.
Look here's the issue, and perhaps I am clearly not making myself clear. And I'll-slooooowly-type-metaphor-free.
Human error is always likely to occur, especially by someone who is very new to the interface.
So when a play is called for Short distance, no matter whether it's a pass or run or whatever, the short distance play should override the pass/run inputs. Why? Because protecting Short is important. Distance first. Always.
If there are no suitable plays that match the tag for short and pass, for example, then the AI should dial up the most likely short playcall first, not what's the next best thing for Pass/Run. Why? Because protecting Short is important. Distance first. Always.
See where my logic is left behind? So the tactics screen is exactly how I describe it.
Unengaging. Unyielding. UnFun.
It needs overhauling for n00bs, newbs, rookies and casual gamers. It's currently a sh** fest.
I've said it in Discord, and I'll say it here, I can't wait for GLB3. And I hope that they sort out distance priorities first and foremost on defense. Why? Because protecting Short is important. Distance first. Always.
Oh-oh-oh and while I am making suggestions - as unlikely as I'll be heard - I suggest that the developers of GLB buy Stobie's software and pay him handsomely. Then integrate the software into GLB2.
GLB2 Scout is a pay-to-win premium DLC. I had to buy a season's worth to spot the errors in my playcalling. It doesn't stop the errors, cos I'm clearly cr** at understanding the intent behind Passing is more important than distance, but at least I could spot the error right there and then.
If you call for short, and have no short pass plays in the book, you want it to go for an inside run play, outside? run plays have no distance and you didn't have a short pass play selected.
You forgot to put a short pass play in 2WR, so when you asked it to pull a short pass play from 2 wide, what is your solution to what it should do when asked there?
The only other logical solution would be to ignore your % on plays you don't have a tag for, which would require re-writing the entire thing to accomplish as it's going to have to examine your playbook to determine which tags are and aren't in there each time before it starts anything else to determine which of your inputs to ignore. Then it would override things the other way though, as in if you had a play call for 80% pass long and 20% outside run and forget to tag a play pass long - well then you're looking at the outside run defense 100% of the time.
Either way doesn't solve the problem of you not having a play selected for 2 WR short pass, the game has to select another play for you from somewhere - you didn't give it one to run in that situation.
Edited by Raid on Dec 12, 2021 10:58:10
Edited by Raid on Dec 12, 2021 10:50:46
Edited by Raid on Dec 12, 2021 10:47:55
Edited by Raid on Dec 12, 2021 10:45:27
Raid
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I mean it could pull from other formations too, but then you're getting even more problems with it calling deliberate mismatches on you when you have a gap.
The problem is all the gap, if there is no play to call - it has no 'good solution' to picking a play for you that also is 'obeying' you.
The problem is all the gap, if there is no play to call - it has no 'good solution' to picking a play for you that also is 'obeying' you.
Mango Fandango
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There are 2 short plays
4-4 2 Will Spy and 4-4 cover 3
Yep, I forgot the short pass play cos that's human error. So obviously a long pass play will be dialed up not a short distance play, whatever that may be. Because that makes total sense to ignore distance.
My logic of protecting short distances is incompatible with this MS DOS title. I am in need of a BIOS upgrade.
In order for the game to work correctly, you need to value the game's concept of calling the pass and run plays first than distance because that makes total sense.
With all due respect, Raid, as you have been a fantastic ambassador for GLB, but let's not beat around the bush. The game works for you and others who invested time, money and effort into working for you.
I have wasted time, spent a few pounds to unlock Premium (???) and put in a semi-decent amount of effort into the game, defensively. It doesn't work for me. I'm not interested in the way the Tactics Screen goes woof when I tell it to sit.
4-4 2 Will Spy and 4-4 cover 3
Yep, I forgot the short pass play cos that's human error. So obviously a long pass play will be dialed up not a short distance play, whatever that may be. Because that makes total sense to ignore distance.
My logic of protecting short distances is incompatible with this MS DOS title. I am in need of a BIOS upgrade.
In order for the game to work correctly, you need to value the game's concept of calling the pass and run plays first than distance because that makes total sense.
With all due respect, Raid, as you have been a fantastic ambassador for GLB, but let's not beat around the bush. The game works for you and others who invested time, money and effort into working for you.
I have wasted time, spent a few pounds to unlock Premium (???) and put in a semi-decent amount of effort into the game, defensively. It doesn't work for me. I'm not interested in the way the Tactics Screen goes woof when I tell it to sit.
Raid
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Originally posted by Mango Fandango
There are 2 short plays
4-4 2 Will Spy and 4-4 cover 3
Yep, I forgot the short pass play cos that's human error. So obviously a long pass play will be dialed up not a short distance play, whatever that may be. Because that makes total sense to ignore distance.
My logic of protecting short distances is incompatible with this MS DOS title. I am in need of a BIOS upgrade.
In order for the game to work correctly, you need to value the game's concept of calling the pass and run plays first than distance because that makes total sense.
With all due respect, Raid, as you have been a fantastic ambassador for GLB, but let's not beat around the bush. The game works for you and others who invested time, money and effort into working for you.
I have wasted time, spent a few pounds to unlock Premium (???) and put in a semi-decent amount of effort into the game, defensively. It doesn't work for me. I'm not interested in the way the Tactics Screen goes woof when I tell it to sit.
Cross formation would be a nightmare for man to man teams. Could you imagine it calling a 5WR short pass play against a 2WR short formation?
personnel groupings are everything if you want to play even a little man to man.
There are 2 short plays
4-4 2 Will Spy and 4-4 cover 3
Yep, I forgot the short pass play cos that's human error. So obviously a long pass play will be dialed up not a short distance play, whatever that may be. Because that makes total sense to ignore distance.
My logic of protecting short distances is incompatible with this MS DOS title. I am in need of a BIOS upgrade.
In order for the game to work correctly, you need to value the game's concept of calling the pass and run plays first than distance because that makes total sense.
With all due respect, Raid, as you have been a fantastic ambassador for GLB, but let's not beat around the bush. The game works for you and others who invested time, money and effort into working for you.
I have wasted time, spent a few pounds to unlock Premium (???) and put in a semi-decent amount of effort into the game, defensively. It doesn't work for me. I'm not interested in the way the Tactics Screen goes woof when I tell it to sit.
Cross formation would be a nightmare for man to man teams. Could you imagine it calling a 5WR short pass play against a 2WR short formation?
personnel groupings are everything if you want to play even a little man to man.
Edited by Raid on Dec 12, 2021 11:00:14
Mango Fandango
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I tagged those 2 plays with Short
I see short
I protect short
My brain is wired for short.
By programme picks pass because that trumps distance.
So a protect shell comes on at 2nd and 2.
Total sense.
I see short
I protect short
My brain is wired for short.
By programme picks pass because that trumps distance.
So a protect shell comes on at 2nd and 2.
Total sense.
Mango Fandango
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Cross formation? I haven't said anything about cross formation.
I am saying... since page 1... short means short. Med means med. Long means long.
Pass plays/Run plays overriding distances just does ever make sense.
Cut down the human error, because this freaking sh** show of a design PUNISHES human error.
I am saying... since page 1... short means short. Med means med. Long means long.
Pass plays/Run plays overriding distances just does ever make sense.
Cut down the human error, because this freaking sh** show of a design PUNISHES human error.
Edited by Mango Fandango on Dec 12, 2021 11:02:36
Raid
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Originally posted by Mango Fandango
I tagged those 2 plays with Short
I see short
I protect short
My brain is wired for short.
By programme picks pass because that trumps distance.
So a protect shell comes on at 2nd and 2.
Total sense.
You are asking for reasoning and logic from a machine, it doesn't do that - it follows orders.
I tagged those 2 plays with Short
I see short
I protect short
My brain is wired for short.
By programme picks pass because that trumps distance.
So a protect shell comes on at 2nd and 2.
Total sense.
You are asking for reasoning and logic from a machine, it doesn't do that - it follows orders.
Raid
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Originally posted by Mango Fandango
Cross formation? I haven't said anything about cross formation.
I am saying... since page 1... short means short. Med means med. Long means long.
Pass plays/Run plays overriding distances just does ever make sense.
You didn't have a 2WR play tagged short, so you are asking it to grab a tagged short play from another formation.
That's the solution you offer when you say to grab a play you did tag as short. Which would be insanely bad for man to man or hybrid teams.
Cross formation? I haven't said anything about cross formation.
I am saying... since page 1... short means short. Med means med. Long means long.
Pass plays/Run plays overriding distances just does ever make sense.
You didn't have a 2WR play tagged short, so you are asking it to grab a tagged short play from another formation.
That's the solution you offer when you say to grab a play you did tag as short. Which would be insanely bad for man to man or hybrid teams.
Edited by Raid on Dec 12, 2021 11:02:57
Mango Fandango
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Originally posted by Raid
You are asking for reasoning and logic from a machine, it doesn't do that - it follows orders.
I am asking for reasoning and logic from the programmers of the machine. They failed miserably and I await GLB3.
You are asking for reasoning and logic from a machine, it doesn't do that - it follows orders.
I am asking for reasoning and logic from the programmers of the machine. They failed miserably and I await GLB3.
Mango Fandango
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Originally posted by Raid
You didn't have a 2WR play tagged short, so you are asking it to grab a tagged short play from another formation.
That's the solution you offer when you say to grab a play you did tag as short. Which would be insanely bad for man to man or hybrid teams.
Ho-hum we're going in circles.
You're seeing the whole thing through the lens of an experienced veteran who can see that short tag is mutually exclusive from pass/run tags.
I, as a n00b, see Short and tag it for short and will (by human error) assume that it would fire for short distances. Why? Because I value the marker.
Now, tell me can you see my perspective yet? Because for 6+ pages I sure as hell can see yours.
You didn't have a 2WR play tagged short, so you are asking it to grab a tagged short play from another formation.
That's the solution you offer when you say to grab a play you did tag as short. Which would be insanely bad for man to man or hybrid teams.
Ho-hum we're going in circles.
You're seeing the whole thing through the lens of an experienced veteran who can see that short tag is mutually exclusive from pass/run tags.
I, as a n00b, see Short and tag it for short and will (by human error) assume that it would fire for short distances. Why? Because I value the marker.
Now, tell me can you see my perspective yet? Because for 6+ pages I sure as hell can see yours.
Raid
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Originally posted by Mango Fandango
I am asking for reasoning and logic from the programmers of the machine. They failed miserably and I await GLB3.
They can't program that into the code man... you are talking with the code, not the programmer. It can't assume you want something, it has to follow it's procedure.
The only question becomes what is the best procedure, which is where the reasoning and logic of the programmer comes in.
I am asking for reasoning and logic from the programmers of the machine. They failed miserably and I await GLB3.
They can't program that into the code man... you are talking with the code, not the programmer. It can't assume you want something, it has to follow it's procedure.
The only question becomes what is the best procedure, which is where the reasoning and logic of the programmer comes in.
Mango Fandango
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Look, the procedure is wrong for a n00b.
Short = short
Med = med
long = long
start there as a priority
then go down the checklist
make the programme less punishing to human error.
there should also be a tool tip to ensure that there is always a play tagged short, med and long.
Short = short
Med = med
long = long
start there as a priority
then go down the checklist
make the programme less punishing to human error.
there should also be a tool tip to ensure that there is always a play tagged short, med and long.
Raid
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Originally posted by Mango Fandango
Ho-hum we're going in circles.
You're seeing the whole thing through the lens of an experienced veteran who can see that short tag is mutually exclusive from pass/run tags.
I, as a n00b, see Short and tag it for short and will (by human error) assume that it would fire for short distances. Why? Because I value the marker.
Now, tell me can you see my perspective yet? Because for 6+ pages I sure as hell can see yours.
Good lord, I get what you are saying, you are the one failing to read what I am saying.
That the other solutions are very much worse, selecting by distance alone would get you 5 CBs out there against a 2TE formation.
You guessed 50/50 pass run, so it chooses a short pass play - and it grabs 5 wide! oops, run up the gut, touchdown.
Ho-hum we're going in circles.
You're seeing the whole thing through the lens of an experienced veteran who can see that short tag is mutually exclusive from pass/run tags.
I, as a n00b, see Short and tag it for short and will (by human error) assume that it would fire for short distances. Why? Because I value the marker.
Now, tell me can you see my perspective yet? Because for 6+ pages I sure as hell can see yours.
Good lord, I get what you are saying, you are the one failing to read what I am saying.
That the other solutions are very much worse, selecting by distance alone would get you 5 CBs out there against a 2TE formation.
You guessed 50/50 pass run, so it chooses a short pass play - and it grabs 5 wide! oops, run up the gut, touchdown.
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