Warrior General Games

Originally posted by jfbueno
Except making one of the most dominant teams of all time. What exactly have you done?

To be fair stunners road on the back of a broken run game and every team not named Salty having having poor run defense builds. Honestly its hard to tell how much teams like the stunners and DA and such are dominant because of how talented the agents are or how good they are at exploiting the flaws in the game. Its why I think what MeM has done is prety amazing. I run that team all by myself and do a decent job but there are definitely people who could probably run it better yet it has always been a contender every season I have coached it. Really speaks about how well the team is put together.

Originally posted by USC_Trojans
To be fair stunners road on the back of a broken run game and every team not named Salty having having poor run defense builds. Honestly its hard to tell how much teams like the stunners and DA and such are dominant because of how talented the agents are or how good they are at exploiting the flaws in the game. Its why I think what MeM has done is prety amazing. I run that team all by myself and do a decent job but there are definitely people who could probably run it better yet it has always been a contender every season I have coached it. Really speaks about how well the team is put together.

Win a #1 trophy and talk to us. This team that "you run" I have beat on the way to #1. Just because you have never been able to get over the hump doesn't mean you can disrespect the teams that did.

I agree with Rob. If "exploiting the flaws in the game" is using the best builds/strategies/plays according to the current meta then everyone should get to exploiting. Welcome to every MMO ever.

Originally posted by DeeVee8
I agree with Rob. If "exploiting the flaws in the game" is using the best builds/strategies/plays according to the current meta then everyone should get to exploiting. Welcome to every MMO ever.

Yes it's true. I think it's a combination of "exploiting the flaws" AND skill. If that's all it took was to exploit the flaws then everyone would do it. If it was so easy then why doesn't everyone do it? All my teams would just be another team in the crowd right?

The game is constantly evolving and the key is anticipating those changes and being capable of adjusting. Combine that with good player building and good coordinating and you have a deadly combination. It's the same with teams in the NFL. Successful teams have good players and continue to evolve with their schemes and style because if you remain stagnant then you will fall behind.

The Stunners were one of many pure rushing teams during their time. If it was so easy to just take advantage of the run game during that time then why was nobody else nearly as successful as them? They don't get nearly enough credit for their superior builds AND excellently underrated defense.

The moral of the story: everyone has equal chance of putting a team and scheme together and making the most of the current meta. Only the best actually rise to the top and it's never as easy as you think.

Originally posted by Rob.
Win a #1 trophy and talk to us. This team that "you run" I have beat on the way to #1. Just because you have never been able to get over the hump doesn't mean you can disrespect the teams that did.

You clearly didn't understand what I posted. I'm saying that MeM manages to do incredibly well despite the fact that I can't run it at 100% of its potential. I believe its impressive to do so well despite that. Also its not disrespect its just fact. Playing WoW for 6 years I see it all the time. The fight for world first bosses is brutal. Some guilds do it by subbing skill for classes that are too strong and other do it with undertuned classes and immense skill.same thing here. I'm saying there are quite a few people here who I don't believe can find success without taking advantage of the flaws and I don't think I can claim them to be dominate if they can't win without those flaws being the center of the team. Its the people who win without the flaws who are most impressive, they can win with pure skill running things that no one would. Its one of the reasons I think Galithor was one of the most impressive agents to play. Teams like Air Raid and GA ignored the meta and still win. Also I may not of hit number 1 on vet yet but I also have never coached a team built to my specs like pretty much all the recent number 1 teams have.

Originally posted by USC_Trojans
To be fair stunners road on the back of a broken run game and every team not named Salty having having poor run defense builds. Honestly its hard to tell how much teams like the stunners and DA and such are dominant because of how talented the agents are or how good they are at exploiting the flaws in the game. Its why I think what MeM has done is prety amazing. I run that team all by myself and do a decent job but there are definitely people who could probably run it better yet it has always been a contender every season I have coached it. Really speaks about how well the team is put together.

I don't agree that this is any way fair. It's so easy to pick and choose what counts and what doesn't towards being great. It's great and all what you've been able to do with MeM, but the point of this game is to win championships, and TxSteve was able to dominate in every single tier that he played in. If he discovered how to take advantage of the current meta at the time, more power to him, because anyone else could have done the same. I remember being on MMA, and we had multiple seasons dedicated to roster building just to be able to beat them.

The man's won six (edit: as an owner). He gets his damn credit.

Getting back to the OP:

Since we're only 3 games into S15, I think S14 data is still relevant.

S14 LZ Boys
Belgarath put up the 10th best Passing season (see Rob. thread)

Out of 2570 Attempts: (is someone really going to argue that the sample size isn't large enough?)
Drops: 112 - or 4.3579%. (from Stobie's GLB2Scout)

Now, that's LESS THAN 4 TIMES A GAME. Are we really complaining about something that effects less than 4 plays a game???

Yes, WRs should get wide open more than 4 times per game. But I've watched almost all of LZ Boys games (until S14 when I went auto-pilot). That's 8 seasons of 30 games (240).

My WRs were open more than 8 times a game. Shit in S14, my HB Scatback got 111 targets on mostly dump offs. He caught 84 of them for a 75% catch rate (with Rec Hands of 70) and 9 drops. You're telling me he was covered like glue on 84 those plays but on only 9 plays he was wide open yet dropped the ball 100% of the time?

What are all these excuses? What's stopping you from running MeM at their potential, then? They won Pro, usually that team has a good shot at #1 in vet too. You're not winning off of pure skill. I've seen the builds, they're a lot like Hawaii 1.0, and those builds still work.

And Air Raid ignoring the meta? They ran just about 5 plays a game, and pass was 100% the meta. I don't remember who GA was.

A lot of teams are coordinated by one agent, you're not the only one. You're just the only one full of excuses.

It's not a huge problem at veteran, but I bet if you looked at the rookie numbers things would be different, that's a frustrating tier. It's also weird that most of the drops come from short passes, especially screens. There are equal or less drops down field which is bad risk versus reward.

Originally posted by o The Boss x
What are all these excuses? What's stopping you from running MeM at their potential, then? They won Pro, usually that team has a good shot at #1 in vet too. You're not winning off of pure skill. I've seen the builds, they're a lot like Hawaii 1.0, and those builds still work.

And Air Raid ignoring the meta? They ran just about 5 plays a game, and pass was 100% the meta. I don't remember who GA was.

A lot of teams are coordinated by one agent, you're not the only one. You're just the only one full of excuses.

No excuses just facts. agents who can win no matter what they run are better than agents who can only win with certain conditions. i was the coach for pro and to be honest it was literally just southside and mem in pro the other legit teams went inactive or reset by then. as to why I can't I legitly dont know how. MeM can pass but it strength iis its run game. determining when and how much to pass to keep defenses from running weird stuff like odd blitzes and zones without hurting the offense when they dont has eluded me for a couple seasons. Im sure someone else could map it out better than me. also I was referring to the builds not my skill when complimenting MeM.

also Air Raid was built in season 2 and was always full pass, pretty sure the all pass meta didnt come till whatever season the stunners retired and run nerfs started. Air Raid actually created the all pass meta (there was zorp who was alll pass but they disappeared). GA was Galithors all run team with no wrs used and ran a 5-2 defense. They were a top 5 team but because of MeM's defense they were guaranteed a loss at least once a season.

also im trying to say I have never actually ran a team built to be run by me. all the teams I have coordinated were built for someone else's dream and I just offered to help. Also none of the teams I run have ever been considered meta (Its more fun to try to take first with a non meta team anyway). the teams that usually win 1 are built to cater to the person running it. I've never had the flex to setup a team built to my standards but if I ever did I'm 90% sure I could get 1 in vet.

but that all derives from the main point. I dont believe most of these guys can win without running a meta team. How dominating can a person be if they can't without having the best conditions? The few agents who have done it are truly the more impressive ones because they can win no matter what they are running.

That was the most confusing post I've ever read.

tldr version?:
Originally posted by USC_Trojans
I don't know how to coordinate with mem

Air raid won ladder #1 when pass was meta

I've never gotten a group of agents to build a team for me, and I don't like building teams that win (because that's "not fun")

I don't even know what I'm trying to say in this last segment but I don't like agents that build teams to win

Side note: I don't think there even is a clear-cut meta right now

Originally posted by o The Boss x
Side note: I don't think there even is a clear-cut meta right now

Meta is balance with a counter focus on the run game. The faster the half back the better.

I think its better to say I don't know how to run MeM perfectly.
Air Raid was built in season 2, hard to say it was built for the meta since there was no meta
I can't afford the flex to own a team, asking for people to help me build it isn't the issue. Plenty of the non meta teams I coach win, just never the best.
People who win under any condition>people who only win under specific conditions.

I think that should help clear it up. I always write like I'm explaining something to myself so I can understand if I'm unclear at times

Much better. What's an example of a team who wins/won under any condition though?

Originally posted by o The Boss x
Much better. What's an example of a team who wins/won under any condition though?

Galithor, You (i wouldnt call the current hawaii meta and your doing well), Sov (I havent seen him fail with an offense yet) dredgar (work a lot with him and rarely see him struggle.) Salty (always do solid, always run their style of offense and defense no matter the meta). Paraboon (only person I see field a competitive zone defense team. bhall (only top 10 team to feature a gunslinger qb) I left a name or two out most likely but these are the people who I see do well without being meta confined. Sure Rob and TxSteve are good coaches but I have never seen them even attempt a non meta team.

but these are guys i can think can win with any scheme. I shouldn't say any conditions though cause you can only take shit builds so far so im adjusting it to any scheme

Thanks for your input USC. You will always be the sore loser who makes an excuse after every loss. This is just a more sophisticated version of that yet again. I don't need your approval and neither does TxSteve.