Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
Let me rephrase, with the word usage of man switching to zone if there's nobody to cover, does it also switch from man awareness to zone awareness?

If your player starts off the play in zone, he will always use zone awareness. Vice versa for man. If a player is in zone coverage and a WR runs into his zone, he will go cover the WR until the WR leaves his zone, at which time the zone defender will run back to the middle of his zone and wait for another defender to enter. Or if a 2nd defender is in his zone while he releases the original WR he was guarding due to the WR leaving the zone, he will run over to cover 2nd WR in his zone. I don't understand the confusion.

Originally posted by Aeir
whereas the coverage of the defender itself is actually governed by man awareness...


The coverage of the defender is governed by Coverage Tech.

Originally posted by Aeir
I had always wondered if zone awareness only effects the radius of the zone that the defender can react in, whereas the coverage of the defender itself is actually governed by man awareness...

So a Zone defender would actually have to have both zone and man awareness to be effective... and that's why zone pass D sucks... Because none of them also take man awareness...

Looks like I have a new experiment for all my spare Zone DBs! (I have a full 9 DB set with zone awareness)

Just a thought

I have never invested in man coverage for my all zone defense.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
I have never invested in man coverage for my all zone defense.

Maybe that's why they suck in pass d?

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
If your player starts off the play in zone, he will always use zone awareness. Vice versa for man. I don't understand the confusion.

Below are two people saying defenders who in Man Base can sometimes have Pump Fake effect them.

Originally posted by Parab00n
Well it lines up Man Coverage on all available receivers, if anyone is double covered that defender is running zone. You'll see them get Pump Faked occasionally.

Originally posted by Galithor
This. The fact that pump fake will hit LBs as the "spare" player(s) in Man Base would indicate they're in some sort of zone.

The tooltip for Zone Awareness on a defender mentions avoiding Pump Fake. The tooltip for Man Awareness does not. If when running Man Base, a spare defender is Pump Faked, this seems to imply that he's both in Zone and using Zone Awareness. If he was using Man Awareness, then Pump Fake should not affect him.

Originally posted by Aeir
I had always wondered if zone awareness only effects the radius of the zone that the defender can react in, whereas the coverage of the defender itself is actually governed by man awareness...

Maybe? Let me see if I understand your theory.

As soon as the defender leaves his designated zone, it would switch to man coverage. If he passes the man awareness roll, he'd see a WR uncovered and go towards him. But if he fails the man awareness roll, he drifts back towards his designated zone and waits for someone else to enter?

I suppose the only way to really know (besides Bort) is to see if zone defenders ever get Head Faked?

Pump Fake only affects defenders in zone coverage.
Head Fake only affects defenders in man coverage.

What I'm saying doesn't really hold water, it's just me spewing forth illogical assumptions about man awareness effecting the effectiveness of the pass defense, while in zone coverage.

The issue about Man Base is that however many WRs there are, there are 1 defender to cover them each...and the rest fall into a zone. (this is where pump fake can look like it's affecting man defenders)

So when you have a 4WR pass play, and a 6DB coverage scheme, the 4WRs each get covered in man to man coverage by 1 player and the rest of the defenders drop off into a zone. Which since it's a man-based coverage shouldn't be the case...they should all be in man to man, even if a WR has 2 defenders on him.

They also suck because they aren't typically made for a zone...if the DC calls a man base D

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
Maybe? Let me see if I understand your theory.

As soon as the defender leaves his designated zone, it would switch to man coverage. If he passes the man awareness roll, he'd see a WR uncovered and go towards him. But if he fails the man awareness roll, he drifts back towards his designated zone and waits for someone else to enter?

I suppose the only way to really know (besides Bort) is to see if zone defenders ever get Head Faked?

ya i mean, you can cruise through a zone defense and look for headfake, or you can just give zero cares like me. Just joking, but if this were the case, it would only really make zone awareness a disingenuous skill, even if playing zone defenses. But you might argue a faster reaction to the ball being transferred would be better vs the run, but I kinda disagree as the zone assignments seem to keep zone guys away from being caught on the line during an outside run. I say take the extra tick to drift back on your heels.

I just say that because although zone is the best for interceptions, and zone aware would be the skill to invest in if you are going for that, but I don't put much stock into interceptions, especially since man coverage has proven to be almost as good vs the short pass with the new backpeddling mechanics introduced.

So I don't think you'll find a headfake if you tried, but maybe I'm wrong and zone aware is pointless.

Originally posted by Aeir
The issue about Man Base is that however many WRs there are, there are 1 defender to cover them each...and the rest fall into a zone. (this is where pump fake can look like it's affecting man defenders)

So when you have a 4WR pass play, and a 6DB coverage scheme, the 4WRs each get covered in man to man coverage by 1 player and the rest of the defenders drop off into a zone. Which since it's a man-based coverage shouldn't be the case...they should all be in man to man, even if a WR has 2 defenders on him.

They also suck because they aren't typically made for a zone...if the DC calls a man base D

So it sounds like you're backing up the notion that Zone Awareness applies for a FS in Man Base when all other receivers are covered.

This gives me an idea for a future defensive playbook/depth chart/roster.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
So it sounds like you're backing up the notion that Zone Awareness applies for a FS in Man Base when all other receivers are covered.

This gives me an idea for a future defensive playbook/depth chart/roster.

Not just FS, but any player that drops into coverage that isn't one of the 3/4 man to man guys. LB, FS, SS, extra CB...they all do it.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
So it sounds like you're backing up the notion that Zone Awareness applies for a FS in Man Base when all other receivers are covered.

This gives me an idea for a future defensive playbook/depth chart/roster.

It's a technically sound defense btw. It's effective vs pass plays but soft to the inside runs.

Originally posted by Aeir
Not just FS, but any player that drops into coverage that isn't one of the 3/4 man to man guys. LB, FS, SS, extra CB...they all do it.

Just look at the play art...it shows which players are in zone and which ones are in man.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
Just look at the play art...it shows which players are in zone and which ones are in man.

not on man base plays. Partly because which defenders are leftover to play zones depends on the offensive formation. Its usually a LB that gets left in a zone though.

Just started running a hybrid defense...some 4-3 and some 3-4.

Originally posted by Galactic Empire
Just started running a hybrid defense...some 4-3 and some 3-4.

You got the high part right, wait wut?