Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Laggo
Do you run any slower when you are low morale? Legit question.

Not certain, but my initial guess would be yes. Seems to affect everything.


I dunno I guess my perception is a bit warped as Alpine hasn't suffered a mega-sack game this season - we've gotten sacked 3 times once. So maybe I'm just not seeing the sack-heavy defenses in action.

Originally posted by NiborRis
Not certain, but my initial guess would be yes. Seems to affect everything.


I dunno I guess my perception is a bit warped as Alpine hasn't suffered a mega-sack game this season - we've gotten sacked 3 times once. So maybe I'm just not seeing the sack-heavy defenses in action.

Probably would. Which is why the idea of Beating the D-line down with a pass power line sounds like a ton of fun.

Originally posted by Time Trial
Probably would. Which is why the idea of Beating the D-line down with a pass power line sounds like a ton of fun.

it'd be cooler if pancake chef worked on pass blocking too, and swap it's "powered by" skill to intimidation instead of run block technique.

Then we can do the balanced thing, and change immovable object to run block tech instead of power. It's basically the "Leverage" of run blocking. It should be the tech skill. It doesn't make balance sense for there to be two run block power SAs (Get Low and Immovable Object).

Not to mention, giving pancake chef over to intimidation would allow it's use for STs by pass blockers too, which would be helpful for balancing that aspect of the game.

Originally posted by Galithor
it'd be cooler if pancake chef worked on pass blocking too, and swap it's "powered by" skill to intimidation instead of run block technique.

Then we can do the balanced thing, and change immovable object to run block tech instead of power. It's basically the "Leverage" of run blocking. It should be the tech skill. It doesn't make balance sense for there to be two run block power SAs (Get Low and Immovable Object).

Well, one is for when you are winning a roll and one is for losing a roll. What doesn't make sense is that they didn't match the winning/losing thing for more rolls.

If I were redoing all the blocking SAs, they'd look like this:

SA - Powered By skill:

Leverage - Pass Block Technique
Strong Arm - Pass Block Power
Peel Back - Pass Block Awareness (new SA)

Immovable Object - Run Block Technique
Get Low - Run Block Power
You're Next - Run Block Awareness (changed from intimidation, it makes sense that you need to be aware to quickly move to the next target)
Pull Specialist - Lead Block Awareness

Pancake Chef - Intimidation (or maybe blocking consistency?), also make this work for run or pass blocking.
Beat Down - Intimidation
Wide Load - Passive



That is a whole lot better balanced in distribution and purpose IMO.

Originally posted by Time Trial
Well, one is for when you are winning a roll and one is for losing a roll. What doesn't make sense is that they didn't match the winning/losing thing for more rolls.

Get Low is for winning a roll too. So Immov Object/Get Low is essentially the mirror of Leverage/Strong Arm. Except both are Run Block Power, while leverage/strong arm is Pass Tech/Power.

That's why I think it makes sense for Pancake Chef to be made neutral, and available to pass and run blocking.

One other interesting thing I bet a whole bunch of people overlook. Ever notice that Wide Load says it works while RUN or pass blocking?

That's right, it will supposedly help against blitzes used against your rushing attack too, in the few cases where that could be relevant. The way I've felt it works is that your player causes an inherent amount of slowdown to unblocked players nearby. Wide Load just buffs up that slow-down effect all the time. It's not easy to test though, for sure.

Originally posted by Galithor
Get Low is for winning a roll too. So Immov Object/Get Low is essentially the mirror of Leverage/Strong Arm. Except both are Run Block Power, while leverage/strong arm is Pass Tech/Power.

That's why I think it makes sense for Pancake Chef to be made neutral, and available to pass and run blocking.

Well, I meant having a winning Run Block Power / losing Run block Power, winning run block tech / losing run block tech, winning pass block power / losing pass block power, and winning pass block tech / losing pass block tech.

Having Pancake Chef work with both run and pass would make it OP and an obvious 100% pick (since you can go with technique side or power side on your traits already).

I'd rather have more and make them more situationally limited than to have few that work in many situations.

Originally posted by Galithor
One other interesting thing I bet a whole bunch of people overlook. Ever notice that Wide Load says it works while RUN or pass blocking?

That's right, it will supposedly help against blitzes used against your rushing attack too, in the few cases where that could be relevant. The way I've felt it works is that your player causes an inherent amount of slowdown to unblocked players nearby. Wide Load just buffs up that slow-down effect all the time. It's not easy to test though, for sure.

Bort added the slowdown effect and Wide Load on the Alpha server at the same time. You used to just be able to blitz through the line at full speed, which then became an autosack.

Originally posted by Time Trial
Bort added the slowdown effect and Wide Load on the Alpha server at the same time. You used to just be able to blitz through the line at full speed, which then became an autosack.

that certainly makes me think it works the way I think it works then.

I don't know that pancake chef would be so automatic if it were based on blocking consistency. You don't see people pumping that up to 80+ like you do with run block tech. There's aspects of the skill that can be used to weaken it for balance (% chance to fire, for example).

That said, if you want to create 4 base skills for the win/lose tech/power on passing and rushing, and give pass blocking an equivalent to pancake chef, I'm all for it. That's a bigger wishlist than my own thought.

Originally posted by Galithor
that certainly makes me think it works the way I think it works then.

I don't know that pancake chef would be so automatic if it were based on blocking consistency. You don't see people pumping that up to 80+ like you do with run block tech. There's aspects of the skill that can be used to weaken it for balance (% chance to fire, for example).

That said, if you want to create 4 base skills for the win/lose tech/power on passing and rushing, and give pass blocking an equivalent to pancake chef, I'm all for it. That's a bigger wishlist than my own thought.

I just think it would be too automatic a choice for running or passing teams if it did both.

Originally posted by Time Trial
I just think it would be too automatic a choice for running or passing teams if it did both.

I'd take it. But then if you gave me a separate pass block tech specific SA that did the same thing just for pass blocking I'd take it too and not complain about the fact it doesn't work for run blocking.

Of course, if it didn't work for Special Teams blocking I'd still bitch about the unbalanced nature of run-blocking vs pass-blocking for that third of the game.

Originally posted by Galithor
I'd take it. But then if you gave me a separate pass block tech specific SA that did the same thing just for pass blocking I'd take it too and not complain about the fact it doesn't work for run blocking.

Of course, if it didn't work for Special Teams blocking I'd still bitch about the unbalanced nature of run-blocking vs pass-blocking for that third of the game.

That's true. I wouldn't mind seeing the run blocking SAs not work on STs... the advantage is already pretty clear.

Originally posted by Time Trial
That's true. I wouldn't mind seeing the run blocking SAs not work on STs... the advantage is already pretty clear.

I got a punt return TD today. First one since Season 3. Blind Hog found an Acorn. That gives Air Raid 7 in 3.4 seasons so far. 6 of which came in the first two seasons when the build difference and SAs weren't so widely separated.

Compare that to a team like Erkner with all their run blocking builds. They've had 23 Return TDs in that same timeframe. They're averaging 35/15 on KR/PR yardage. I'm getting 28/10. That difference will get worse too, not better. I frankly prefer teams kick TBs against me or punt it into the endzone. I don't have to eat the morale/energy drain from the revcakes as much like that. It's better for my offense if you don't kick it to me. My line starts drives healthier on the bars.

Teams like Erkner? They want the returns. Even if they don't get a big gain, they still get a chance to pummel you with Pancake Chef and Beat Down. Thier return teams INFLICT morale and energy drain on the coverage team.

It's the worst balance issue in the game right now IMO.

That implies that passing and rushing should be equal.