Warrior General Games

Is Xavori crying about coverage because he can't stop the pass?

All I'm hearing is "I don't want to invest in physical skills to an extreme level to matchup with extreme built WRs, or build a CB S* so I can do it and all the other stuff I want to do, or take Chase Down to do it, I just want Corndog to make my mediocre Cornerback able to stop all varieties of wide recievers consistently and be acceptable in at run defense too"

Xav, whats your average sprinting/quickness/footwork on your CBs on the Lounge? We're at 46-47 average on Air Raid. Some guys better than others. All of them still inadequate to deal with the guys we're going to have to cover in Journeyman. I'm well aware of it, and have been having them focus on improving it. We were MUCH worse before.

Originally posted by Galithor
Considerably further than halfway. The SP cost goes up over time. I don't deny the difficult choices that must be made by secondary players. I'm not going to apologize for having maGz build his TE to punish LBs and SSs trying to cover him with run stopping builds either.

If the prevailing thought is adding high footwork to a coverage build isn't doable, I'd again point out that there's a Special Ability called "Chase Down" that's tailor built to assist with the inability to keep up with very mobile WRs. It has a chance to fire every tick you're more than 4 yards away from your target. That means it'll fire often if you've got one of those CBs or Safeties getting regularly torched by Addai on the flag routes.

I wonder how many CBs out there in Seasoned just Golded On an Island or 3rd Down Stopper when they should've been using that AP to Silver Chase Down instead?

we have silver chase down guys, at least 2 - hard to do on a strong safety though

but if man awareness and coverage need to be 80ish right now and and deflect/int 60ish and sprint/quick/at 50ish it's not trivial to get 70 in footwork .. my guys are at 50ish footwork and that seems to be mildly effective (plus toughness conditioning vertical pursuit and so forth)

if we could have specialists that could be assigned to a player that would make it easier - the issue isn't (to me at least) that a cb can't be a dedicated cover guy but that ALL of them have to be and the safeties too because you never know where the uber WR will line up

it's a bit of a catch 22

my concern isn't that footwork is important

Originally posted by Rom_Fox
we have silver chase down guys, at least 2 - hard to do on a strong safety though

but if man awareness and coverage need to be 80ish right now and and deflect/int 60ish and sprint/quick/at 50ish it's not trivial to get 70 in footwork .. my guys are at 50ish footwork and that seems to be mildly effective (plus toughness conditioning vertical pursuit and so forth)

if we could have specialists that could be assigned to a player that would make it easier - the issue isn't (to me at least) that a cb can't be a dedicated cover guy but that ALL of them have to be and the safeties too because you never know where the uber WR will line up

it's a bit of a catch 22

my concern isn't that footwork is important

I get the feeling most CBs and safeties are built pretty much like ours. Waaaay too much early investment in awareness and cov tech and other crap, not nearly enough in the physical skills needed to actually use those other skills.

Hey guys you are putting too much in cover tech and not enough in chase down sa. That is your problem.

Originally posted by Galithor
All I'm hearing is "I don't want to invest in physical skills to an extreme level to matchup with extreme built WRs, or build a CB S* so I can do it and all the other stuff I want to do, or take Chase Down to do it, I just want Corndog to make my mediocre Cornerback able to stop all varieties of wide recievers consistently and be acceptable in at run defense too"

Xav, whats your average sprinting/quickness/footwork on your CBs on the Lounge? We're at 46-47 average on Air Raid. Some guys better than others. All of them still inadequate to deal with the guys we're going to have to cover in Journeyman. I'm well aware of it, and have been having them focus on improving it. We were MUCH worse before.

Uh. You don't have to consider quick/sprint when comparing CB's and WR's to see the problem. Both of them need those skills.

Footwork is required on CB's. It's not required on WR's.

CB's need two skills just to stay with a WR route. WR's don't actually need any skills to follow sorta along their route. They will need receiving hands to catch the ball tho.

3 skills for CB's other than running. 1 skill for WR's other than running. And that's not even doing anything more than just staying with the WR...and failing because backpedal turn is broken.

As for Lounge CB's, I have great physicals. LaOompah is usually the fastest guy on the field. The rest of the CB's have 5.3 40's which is about where most WR's are. Footwork averages mid 40's.

Trust me, the problem isn't my guys ignoring physicals.

At this point I have seen Galithor's point quite clearly....he doesn't really understand defense at all. I know because if he did their defensive players would be far more better than ours. But clearly they aren't and I talk with Adderfist all the time in knowing that hes on the same page all of us DC's are.

The good thing about being one of the top OC's and DC's is that I can sympathize with both sides without having huge bias. I have one of the best passing offenses in the game and know exactly how hard it is to stop. I run scrims all the time. If I were just running through OG I would think far more needs to be done like people think, but really with having the advantage of SF as well I have learned that really if you made the effort of fixing the footwork on the routes to the corner like you did with the deep streak routes and then further went through the process of clearing up all the problems in coverage play by play (i know it sucks and its a bitch but I really dont care because it is your job and the game is built around these sort of things. If at any point you think screw you for thinking this way just think where this game is and the fact that this really isn't a ridiculous request because im tired of dealing with attitude on things that are simply needed to be fixed in this game) which is obviously the coverage assignments due to the new weird coverage things. We would be in pretty good shape I think. I think I would feel pretty good about my own defense anyways. And I don't even blitz that much.

Xav, I'd say 40 footwork is definitely too low.

I agree on the assignments needing fixed and clarified.

Originally posted by Galithor
Xav, I'd say 40 footwork is definitely too low.

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Originally posted by Galithor
Xav, I'd say 40 footwork is definitely too low.

Great. Then tell me how much Break Run Block, Deflecting, Sprinting, Coverage Technique, Man Awareness, Quickness, Heart, Snap Reaction, and Toughness I should have had my guys skip out on to get more at this point?

CB's have way more skills they have to build versus WR's. That's been the point the whole time.

And it doesn't matter if you have 100 Footwork since right now the sim will have the CB turn inside against out routes, and loop slightly when the WR runs straight past.

Originally posted by Xavori
Great. Then tell me how much Break Run Block, Deflecting, Sprinting, Coverage Technique, Man Awareness, Quickness, Heart, Snap Reaction, and Toughness I should have had my guys skip out on to get more at this point?

CB's have way more skills they have to build versus WR's. That's been the point the whole time.

And it doesn't matter if you have 100 Footwork since right now the sim will have the CB turn inside against out routes, and loop slightly when the WR runs straight past.

I'll tell you how much: less.

The CB building more skills argument doesn't mean much to me. You don't need to match a WR 1:1 on sprinting/quickness to cover them. Those are easily the two most expensive skills by far. Shaving them slightly would probably free up the points needed for footwork alone.

In any event, you're asking for a jack of all trades player to be able to handle a min/maxxed player against what the min/maxxed player is maxxed to do. When's that ever been effective in an MMO?

Speed is overrated on a CB unless you put him on an island. If you have safety help over the top, you can get away with reducing the CBs speed. If you don't have safety over the top and you put your CB on an island and play man to man, then you need to concentrate on speed, quick, footwork, balance, etc...and don't put any run stopping skills on him. It all depends on what type of defense you run and what you are specifically doing with that CB.

Originally posted by Xavori
Great. Then tell me how much Break Run Block, Deflecting, Sprinting, Coverage Technique, Man Awareness, Quickness, Heart, Snap Reaction, and Toughness I should have had my guys skip out on to get more at this point?

I barely hit toughness, snap reaction, and heart on my CBs

if you just care about stopping the pass, ignore break run block... bring those CBs good at it in only for run-stopping formations

cov tech is overrated

xav, you can't have EVERYTHING on CBs... pick and choose what you care about, then build from there

it's like complaining it's hard to build a WR that's REALLY fast with great hands, a RB than runs through people as well as around them, a QB than is an amazing runner AND passer, etc etc etc. PICK AND CHOOSE!

all you do is complain complain complain, and it's really getting old

Everyone keeps saying Cover Tech is overrated but that Chase Down is a great SA that we should be having gold in to cover obviously broken routes? Are we playing the same game? Because it really doesn't sound like it.