I'd hope the changes are either new defensive plays and/or changes to the current offensive plays. I dislike balancing based on results at lower levels. Code re-writes, such as the heuristic coverage changes or changing how backpedals work, are one thing but I really hope there aren't sim nerfs added to make the spammed plays less effective just because they're spammed.
Forum > Goal Line Blitz 2 > Goal Line Blitz/Spam.... A look under the covers.
Xavori
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Originally posted by AirMcMVP
I'd hope the changes are either new defensive plays and/or changes to the current offensive plays. I dislike balancing based on results at lower levels. Code re-writes, such as the heuristic coverage changes or changing how backpedals work, are one thing but I really hope there aren't sim nerfs added to make the spammed plays less effective just because they're spammed.
I would be thrilled if the changes are to defensive AI. It drive me absolutely batty to watch my defenders go slamming into the scrum rather than moving behind the line where they can run free.
I'd hope the changes are either new defensive plays and/or changes to the current offensive plays. I dislike balancing based on results at lower levels. Code re-writes, such as the heuristic coverage changes or changing how backpedals work, are one thing but I really hope there aren't sim nerfs added to make the spammed plays less effective just because they're spammed.
I would be thrilled if the changes are to defensive AI. It drive me absolutely batty to watch my defenders go slamming into the scrum rather than moving behind the line where they can run free.
It's great how anytime someone comes in to argue the "not overpowered" position....without even looking - I know they are on an exploit team...and when I look: they are! Makes me feel like a genius (that's a first!)
the exploit team forums must be overflowing with tears and anguish and they are starting to slowly....head held low...shirts soaked in tears...head for the main forums to voice their rage.
Also love that "but show us some evidence" is still their battle cry!
the exploit team forums must be overflowing with tears and anguish and they are starting to slowly....head held low...shirts soaked in tears...head for the main forums to voice their rage.
Also love that "but show us some evidence" is still their battle cry!
Parab00n
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Originally posted by IotB
You know making assertions without data, is about the most idiotic thing you can do. Don't worry though, I get it, you have been so consumed by your belief that you can't be objective anymore. So with that, you should probably remove yourself from the conversation and let the grown ups make some rational arguments here.
Nope, I'm looking at every defensive play ran against it and the results of each. Name a play and I'll tell you the data on it.
Edit: Stobie has the spreadsheet made with each defensive play and how it does against every GL play. I'm not going to link to it since I didn't compile the data.
You know making assertions without data, is about the most idiotic thing you can do. Don't worry though, I get it, you have been so consumed by your belief that you can't be objective anymore. So with that, you should probably remove yourself from the conversation and let the grown ups make some rational arguments here.
Nope, I'm looking at every defensive play ran against it and the results of each. Name a play and I'll tell you the data on it.
Edit: Stobie has the spreadsheet made with each defensive play and how it does against every GL play. I'm not going to link to it since I didn't compile the data.
Edited by Parab00n on May 26, 2014 10:10:33
I think the problem is the defense doesn't react well enough,
Some new plays that put defenders into more space would kill this issue.
Ofc. you have to find balance.
Some new plays that put defenders into more space would kill this issue.
Ofc. you have to find balance.
IotB
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Originally posted by Parab00n
Why should a team have to build their entire defense to stop 1 play? Isn't that the very definition of overpowered?
That's a strawman argument. I didn't say the entire defense, nor 1 play. I just commented about having to put points into skills that help the defense stop the run plays. Like for example, break run block on CB's. If 75% of the big gain plays are against teams who's CB's don't have any points in this, and worse yet, have really crappy Safties/LB's to stop a run team, why should that be relevant? Would you say the same thing if I had a team of dots that had little to no points in stopping a passing team?
Information like this matters in determining the true success of the run game mechanics to say whether something is OP or not. I'd like to see it broken down by defense plays and formations as well. Because I think a large percentage of the Big Gains% is from bad plays and then bad dots. The macro statistics here don't really say anything.
Originally posted by Parab00n
Nope, I'm looking at every defensive play ran against it and the results of each. Name a play and I'll tell you the data on it.
Edit: Stobie has the spreadsheet made with each defensive play and how it does against every GL play. I'm not going to link to it since I didn't compile the data.
I'll go look at it.
EDIT: I don't see that data in the google doc he posted, nor do I see another link to another doc. So based on the link in his first post this is just playing calling by who with some relevant data. It doesn't show the break down of the play called against it, nor does it consider the team it's being played against. Maybe I'm wrong and stoobie will help me out. But I don't see any data points being addressed in my question/criticism of the statistics he's giving.
Why should a team have to build their entire defense to stop 1 play? Isn't that the very definition of overpowered?
That's a strawman argument. I didn't say the entire defense, nor 1 play. I just commented about having to put points into skills that help the defense stop the run plays. Like for example, break run block on CB's. If 75% of the big gain plays are against teams who's CB's don't have any points in this, and worse yet, have really crappy Safties/LB's to stop a run team, why should that be relevant? Would you say the same thing if I had a team of dots that had little to no points in stopping a passing team?
Information like this matters in determining the true success of the run game mechanics to say whether something is OP or not. I'd like to see it broken down by defense plays and formations as well. Because I think a large percentage of the Big Gains% is from bad plays and then bad dots. The macro statistics here don't really say anything.
Originally posted by Parab00n
Nope, I'm looking at every defensive play ran against it and the results of each. Name a play and I'll tell you the data on it.
Edit: Stobie has the spreadsheet made with each defensive play and how it does against every GL play. I'm not going to link to it since I didn't compile the data.
I'll go look at it.
EDIT: I don't see that data in the google doc he posted, nor do I see another link to another doc. So based on the link in his first post this is just playing calling by who with some relevant data. It doesn't show the break down of the play called against it, nor does it consider the team it's being played against. Maybe I'm wrong and stoobie will help me out. But I don't see any data points being addressed in my question/criticism of the statistics he's giving.
Edited by IotB on May 26, 2014 10:24:51
bhall43
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So teams who largely can stop every other run in the entire game if they plan for it have shitty builds and that is why they can't stop GL QB Rollout successfully? Makes sense.
Ancient Sith Lord
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1st off, I hate this play as much as anybody. But this play isn't that unrealistic. If you run 5-2, Cat Blitz 2 Roll, you will stop the QB GL Rollout for a loss or small gain about %90 of the time. You will give up a big gain (15-20 yards) about %5 and a TD about %5. I am just estimating these numbers, but this has been my experience.
It is a high risk, high reward play. It is also a very low successful play if the defense runs the correct play. In real life, if a team runs the hail mary every play, they will catch 1 sooner or later.
It is a high risk, high reward play. It is also a very low successful play if the defense runs the correct play. In real life, if a team runs the hail mary every play, they will catch 1 sooner or later.
burn_209
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Originally posted by AirMcMVP
I'd hope the changes are either new defensive plays and/or changes to the current offensive plays. I dislike balancing based on results at lower levels. Code re-writes, such as the heuristic coverage changes or changing how backpedals work, are one thing but I really hope there aren't sim nerfs added to make the spammed plays less effective just because they're spammed.
This...oh god this
I'd hope the changes are either new defensive plays and/or changes to the current offensive plays. I dislike balancing based on results at lower levels. Code re-writes, such as the heuristic coverage changes or changing how backpedals work, are one thing but I really hope there aren't sim nerfs added to make the spammed plays less effective just because they're spammed.
This...oh god this
Originally posted by nortobc
1st off, I hate this play as much as anybody. But this play isn't that unrealistic. If you run 5-2, Cat Blitz 2 Roll, you will stop the QB GL Rollout for a loss or small gain about %90 of the time. You will give up a big gain (15-20 yards) about %5 and a TD about %5. I am just estimating these numbers, but this has been my experience.
It is a high risk, high reward play. It is also a very low successful play if the defense runs the correct play. In real life, if a team runs the hail mary every play, they will catch 1 sooner or later.
I will tell you right now your numbers are FAR off...
Big Gain % 40.178
Loss % 36.1607
Avg YPC 7.8973
Big Gain is > 10 yards
1st off, I hate this play as much as anybody. But this play isn't that unrealistic. If you run 5-2, Cat Blitz 2 Roll, you will stop the QB GL Rollout for a loss or small gain about %90 of the time. You will give up a big gain (15-20 yards) about %5 and a TD about %5. I am just estimating these numbers, but this has been my experience.
It is a high risk, high reward play. It is also a very low successful play if the defense runs the correct play. In real life, if a team runs the hail mary every play, they will catch 1 sooner or later.
I will tell you right now your numbers are FAR off...
Big Gain % 40.178
Loss % 36.1607
Avg YPC 7.8973
Big Gain is > 10 yards
burn_209
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Originally posted by bhall43
So teams who largely can stop every other run in the entire game if they plan for it have shitty builds and that is why they can't stop GL QB Rollout successfully? Makes sense.
Do any of your CB's have run block? Because I put my OT's at the TE spots in goalline and if he gets his hands on your CB he is going to fuck him up. This whole OP'd play crap is a result of just taking advantage of what dots havent invested points yet. Whether it is CB's break run block, D-line run stop skills (because everyone wants sacks), and everyone damn near having a coverage linebacker. People dont want to invest in those points because it isnt flashy. If you dont want to invest points there then yes plays like GL Sweep are going to fuck you up as it should
So teams who largely can stop every other run in the entire game if they plan for it have shitty builds and that is why they can't stop GL QB Rollout successfully? Makes sense.
Do any of your CB's have run block? Because I put my OT's at the TE spots in goalline and if he gets his hands on your CB he is going to fuck him up. This whole OP'd play crap is a result of just taking advantage of what dots havent invested points yet. Whether it is CB's break run block, D-line run stop skills (because everyone wants sacks), and everyone damn near having a coverage linebacker. People dont want to invest in those points because it isnt flashy. If you dont want to invest points there then yes plays like GL Sweep are going to fuck you up as it should
bhall43
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Originally posted by nortobc
1st off, I hate this play as much as anybody. But this play isn't that unrealistic. If you run 5-2, Cat Blitz 2 Roll, you will stop the QB GL Rollout for a loss or small gain about %90 of the time. You will give up a big gain (15-20 yards) about %5 and a TD about %5. I am just estimating these numbers, but this has been my experience.
It is a high risk, high reward play. It is also a very low successful play if the defense runs the correct play. In real life, if a team runs the hail mary every play, they will catch 1 sooner or later.
Thanks for your help. I will install this play immediately!
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792134
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792327
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792669
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/793010
1st off, I hate this play as much as anybody. But this play isn't that unrealistic. If you run 5-2, Cat Blitz 2 Roll, you will stop the QB GL Rollout for a loss or small gain about %90 of the time. You will give up a big gain (15-20 yards) about %5 and a TD about %5. I am just estimating these numbers, but this has been my experience.
It is a high risk, high reward play. It is also a very low successful play if the defense runs the correct play. In real life, if a team runs the hail mary every play, they will catch 1 sooner or later.
Thanks for your help. I will install this play immediately!
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792134
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792327
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792669
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/793010
bhall43
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Originally posted by burn_209
Do any of your CB's have run block? Because I put my OT's at the TE spots in goalline and if he gets his hands on your CB he is going to fuck him up. This whole OP'd play crap is a result of just taking advantage of what dots havent invested points yet. Whether it is CB's break run block, D-line run stop skills (because everyone wants sacks), and everyone damn near having a coverage linebacker. People dont want to invest in those points because it isnt flashy. If you dont want to invest points there then yes plays like GL Sweep are going to fuck you up as it should
My CB2's? They actually do. But what part about I can stop every single run play in the game if I plan for it except QB Rollout did you not get?
Do any of your CB's have run block? Because I put my OT's at the TE spots in goalline and if he gets his hands on your CB he is going to fuck him up. This whole OP'd play crap is a result of just taking advantage of what dots havent invested points yet. Whether it is CB's break run block, D-line run stop skills (because everyone wants sacks), and everyone damn near having a coverage linebacker. People dont want to invest in those points because it isnt flashy. If you dont want to invest points there then yes plays like GL Sweep are going to fuck you up as it should
My CB2's? They actually do. But what part about I can stop every single run play in the game if I plan for it except QB Rollout did you not get?
Parab00n
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Originally posted by bhall43
Thanks for your help. I will install this play immediately!
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792134
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792327
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792669
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/793010
Sorry, those plays didn't fall into the 90% category. l2stats
Would also like to point out that I'm not built to run this play in the slightest.
Thanks for your help. I will install this play immediately!
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792134
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792327
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792669
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/793010
Sorry, those plays didn't fall into the 90% category. l2stats
Would also like to point out that I'm not built to run this play in the slightest.
Xavori
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Originally posted by bhall43
Thanks for your help. I will install this play immediately!
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792134
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792327
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792669
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/793010
So many pancakes.
But you're right, your guys should be able to get knocked on their butt and still stop the play.
And then I should be able to stop OG GLB, Sunday Funday, and DADDY's passing game without bothering to put any points into coverage technique or deflection/interception.
Thanks for your help. I will install this play immediately!
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792134
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792327
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/792669
http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/64867/793010
So many pancakes.
But you're right, your guys should be able to get knocked on their butt and still stop the play.
And then I should be able to stop OG GLB, Sunday Funday, and DADDY's passing game without bothering to put any points into coverage technique or deflection/interception.
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