And I mean just because we pointed things out at times doesn't entirely mean they were fixed or that the fixes were perfect. Also most of the work revolved around veteran league play because there was only a league or so of teams that went from rookie to veteran and their seasons were a week long. So if something is wonky in Rookie or Sophmore or anything before veteran excuse those people if they didn't pick that up in the couple days they had of seeing it from about 10-20 teams to look at.
Forum > Goal Line Blitz 2 > The Pass Power Conundrum
bhall43
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Hell the month I spent playing Vet league was rendered almost entirely useless by the new coverage schemes. So theres that.
peeti
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Originally posted by nortobc
Anybody tried the Tampa 2 defense?
yes, boobs did
didnt work. As soon as 2 WR go a bit deeper on one side u are dead. Reaction to the Run was lol
Anybody tried the Tampa 2 defense?
yes, boobs did
didnt work. As soon as 2 WR go a bit deeper on one side u are dead. Reaction to the Run was lolGalithor
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Originally posted by peeti
yes, boobs did didnt work. As soon as 2 WR go a bit deeper on one side u are dead. Reaction to the Run was lol
I think the thing with Air Raid that killed us mostly from zones was you choose your death. If you blitz to try and get pressure, the zones are too wide for your coverage guys to have a real chance. If you choose not to blitz, the opposing receivers get deep and beyond your underneath coverage, leaving 2-3 shell guys typically trying to cover sometimes 4 receivers.
It'd probably be better if the underneath coverage guys were smart enough to realize when there's no threats to their zones, and free them up to follow a guy out of their zone or initiate a delayed pass rush when QB rolls out to their side. Maybe crazy high zone awareness or coverage tech does this later on, but so far it just looks like they're content to release receivers streaking through their zone to an over-matched safety trying to cover 2 guys deep.
yes, boobs did didnt work. As soon as 2 WR go a bit deeper on one side u are dead. Reaction to the Run was lol
I think the thing with Air Raid that killed us mostly from zones was you choose your death. If you blitz to try and get pressure, the zones are too wide for your coverage guys to have a real chance. If you choose not to blitz, the opposing receivers get deep and beyond your underneath coverage, leaving 2-3 shell guys typically trying to cover sometimes 4 receivers.
It'd probably be better if the underneath coverage guys were smart enough to realize when there's no threats to their zones, and free them up to follow a guy out of their zone or initiate a delayed pass rush when QB rolls out to their side. Maybe crazy high zone awareness or coverage tech does this later on, but so far it just looks like they're content to release receivers streaking through their zone to an over-matched safety trying to cover 2 guys deep.
-Phaytle-
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The problem with zones is the defenders don't actually play zone.
They stay in a general area and then play man on whoever comes closest.
That's not a very good zone, and it shows in how ineffective it is in this game.
Zone works in real life because the defender is usually focused on more than one receiver like a man assignment. He usually has his body somewhat towards the QB so he can keep what is going on in the backfield in his peripheral, or multiple receiver/blocking routes in his peripheral. Zones work because the defender is more aware and is able to react quicker.
In GLB2, a defender in zone is really a defender playing man that lines up somewhere else other than over the assignment and does not immediately run to him after the snap.
Deep zones don't work well here because this very principle of them really playing man. When you play a deep zone your assignment is not whoever comes closest to you. Your assignment is to keep everyone in front of you, don't let anyone get behind you. Also, if there are two going deep, then you need try and keep the same distance between both routes. Since the ball will be in the air for quite a while you should have time to move into position to defend both routes when the ball is thrown. This is called range.
When someone in zone goes off and plays one man when there are two routes running through his zone you just made zone not work and not a zone, most of the time.
Another reason zone and man assignments, don't work very well here is because every defender acts like they are the only one on the field left to defend the run/pass. This makes them go for the safest position most of the time, which means a position to easily give up a gimme reception, when in fact they actually had plenty of time to make a play on the ball. Most defenses and coverages are built around the whole defense knowing each other's roles and assignments, so they know where their teammates will be and where/when they have help.
If a CB has a receiver 1 on 1 with deep safety help then he doesn't always have to make sure he is a yard ahead of the receiver's route like we see here all the time.
Or why do we ever see a CB between the receiver and the sidelines? Or even out of bounds? Illogical. It should be coded out like the fix for better end zone coverage.
Pass power isn't worth very much right now because coverage is so bad.
Coverage seems hard to code, but it's also complicated in real life. The pass coverage defenders need to favor certain positions relative to the receiver and their team's playcall.
And everyone on every play needs some kind of vision. It's getting frustrating to see players ignore something they are facing just a couple yards away from them... I understand we need awareness, but basically it's like players are blind but there is no glasses/contacts/prescription skill for us to increase.
Sorry if I restated anything, I didn't feel like reading all the posts already here right now... too busy.
They stay in a general area and then play man on whoever comes closest.
That's not a very good zone, and it shows in how ineffective it is in this game.
Zone works in real life because the defender is usually focused on more than one receiver like a man assignment. He usually has his body somewhat towards the QB so he can keep what is going on in the backfield in his peripheral, or multiple receiver/blocking routes in his peripheral. Zones work because the defender is more aware and is able to react quicker.
In GLB2, a defender in zone is really a defender playing man that lines up somewhere else other than over the assignment and does not immediately run to him after the snap.
Deep zones don't work well here because this very principle of them really playing man. When you play a deep zone your assignment is not whoever comes closest to you. Your assignment is to keep everyone in front of you, don't let anyone get behind you. Also, if there are two going deep, then you need try and keep the same distance between both routes. Since the ball will be in the air for quite a while you should have time to move into position to defend both routes when the ball is thrown. This is called range.
When someone in zone goes off and plays one man when there are two routes running through his zone you just made zone not work and not a zone, most of the time.
Another reason zone and man assignments, don't work very well here is because every defender acts like they are the only one on the field left to defend the run/pass. This makes them go for the safest position most of the time, which means a position to easily give up a gimme reception, when in fact they actually had plenty of time to make a play on the ball. Most defenses and coverages are built around the whole defense knowing each other's roles and assignments, so they know where their teammates will be and where/when they have help.
If a CB has a receiver 1 on 1 with deep safety help then he doesn't always have to make sure he is a yard ahead of the receiver's route like we see here all the time.
Or why do we ever see a CB between the receiver and the sidelines? Or even out of bounds? Illogical. It should be coded out like the fix for better end zone coverage.
Pass power isn't worth very much right now because coverage is so bad.
Coverage seems hard to code, but it's also complicated in real life. The pass coverage defenders need to favor certain positions relative to the receiver and their team's playcall.
And everyone on every play needs some kind of vision. It's getting frustrating to see players ignore something they are facing just a couple yards away from them... I understand we need awareness, but basically it's like players are blind but there is no glasses/contacts/prescription skill for us to increase.
Sorry if I restated anything, I didn't feel like reading all the posts already here right now... too busy.
Edited by -Phaytle- on Mar 10, 2014 16:28:28
Galithor
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Originally posted by Jampy2.0
How much awr do your men have atm thor
we stopped our guys investing in zone awareness in the 40-45 range a couple weeks ago.
How much awr do your men have atm thor
we stopped our guys investing in zone awareness in the 40-45 range a couple weeks ago.
Having pass power means your QB might actually try to hit the WR in stride or even lead him a few yards,
sounds like a bad idea to me if you want the easy completion...
Just underthrow it, and let the WR adjust, we all know the CB won't.
sounds like a bad idea to me if you want the easy completion...
Just underthrow it, and let the WR adjust, we all know the CB won't.
Originally posted by Galithor
we stopped our guys investing in zone awareness in the 40-45 range a couple weeks ago.
That's nothing dude... Shoulda atleast took it to 60s before you quit on it....
Here I was thinking you guys were really loaded up on zone. My SSs with high Zone awr react to things almost instantly some times...
If the CBs weren't broken, I would run full zone because how fast defenders react.
we stopped our guys investing in zone awareness in the 40-45 range a couple weeks ago.
That's nothing dude... Shoulda atleast took it to 60s before you quit on it....
Here I was thinking you guys were really loaded up on zone. My SSs with high Zone awr react to things almost instantly some times...
If the CBs weren't broken, I would run full zone because how fast defenders react.
Galithor
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Our safeties reacted in shell zones fine. Underneath broke on the ball too regularly. They're reacting to the pass fine. They're just so terribly out of position most of the time its irrelevant.
Galithor
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Don't get me wrong. We're still planning to try zones heavily towards endgame. Were just not doing it right now when DAG and ZEB allow us to hold opponents to around 100 yards total offense. That's why we stopped the zone awareness investment for now. We aren't using it much.
Adderfist
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Besides the fact zone awareness doesn't actually help you in coverage except vs pump fake...
Originally posted by Galithor
Our safeties reacted in shell zones fine. Underneath broke on the ball too regularly. They're reacting to the pass fine. They're just so terribly out of position most of the time its irrelevant.
When was the last game you ran your full zone D so i can watch
Our safeties reacted in shell zones fine. Underneath broke on the ball too regularly. They're reacting to the pass fine. They're just so terribly out of position most of the time its irrelevant.
When was the last game you ran your full zone D so i can watch
Originally posted by Adderfist
Besides the fact zone awareness doesn't actually help you in coverage except vs pump fake...
It affects your reaction time while in the zone.
Besides the fact zone awareness doesn't actually help you in coverage except vs pump fake...
It affects your reaction time while in the zone.
-Phaytle-
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Originally posted by Jampy2.0
That's nothing dude... Shoulda atleast took it to 60s before you quit on it....
Here I was thinking you guys were really loaded up on zone. My SSs with high Zone awr react to things almost instantly some times...
If the CBs weren't broken, I would run full zone because how fast defenders react.
IME, even the safeties with high zone awr don't react correctly to the pass. Yes, they react slightly quicker to the run, but when they do react to the pass they still run to a spot a yard ahead of the receiver to make sure they are in front of him to get the tackle when the ball gets there. Awareness should have a lot to do with giving yourself time to be in a better position, but it doesn't. It doesn't help to react faster if you are just going to get to the same spot faster than a player with lower awareness, it's even a disadvantage here. If you react slower, then you are actually closer to the ball/receiver or in better position here in GLB2. We all see this on deep throws. Even cov tech doesn't help that much, yeah they seemingly cover a bit closer and cut at the same time or before the receivers (lol), but their position is still coded wrong so it doesn't show much of an effect.
Increasing pass power should give the defenders less time to get in advantageous position. But when the defenders are coded to always get in a bad position in the first place, then you never need to worry about that - hence pass power being worthless, maybe even detrimental to a point.
That's nothing dude... Shoulda atleast took it to 60s before you quit on it....
Here I was thinking you guys were really loaded up on zone. My SSs with high Zone awr react to things almost instantly some times...
If the CBs weren't broken, I would run full zone because how fast defenders react.
IME, even the safeties with high zone awr don't react correctly to the pass. Yes, they react slightly quicker to the run, but when they do react to the pass they still run to a spot a yard ahead of the receiver to make sure they are in front of him to get the tackle when the ball gets there. Awareness should have a lot to do with giving yourself time to be in a better position, but it doesn't. It doesn't help to react faster if you are just going to get to the same spot faster than a player with lower awareness, it's even a disadvantage here. If you react slower, then you are actually closer to the ball/receiver or in better position here in GLB2. We all see this on deep throws. Even cov tech doesn't help that much, yeah they seemingly cover a bit closer and cut at the same time or before the receivers (lol), but their position is still coded wrong so it doesn't show much of an effect.
Increasing pass power should give the defenders less time to get in advantageous position. But when the defenders are coded to always get in a bad position in the first place, then you never need to worry about that - hence pass power being worthless, maybe even detrimental to a point.
Edited by -Phaytle- on Mar 10, 2014 16:42:33
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