Warrior General Games

I've said all along that the #1 problem with this game is the league sorting and parity. Elite leagues have parity and are very competitive and fun. World league (for the most part) has parity and the games are very competitive and fun.

Yello1.... do you agree or disagree that better league sorting would lead to more competitive games?

Originally posted by yello1
Originally posted by beenlurken

Im not surprised you cant understand a simple table. It is the % of team fumbles by returner. You dont have a point that there is a problem with ST fumbles when so many teams dont have a problem..

Clearly your ST coordinator did not fix your STs. Either he hates youor doesnt know shit about STs. Any sane person would realize thats the problem but you insist on blaming the SIM and ignoring the fact that most dont have a problem.

Tables have labels on the data for a reason in every single context of their use from science to industry to the class room.

And wow, really? 55% Yikes. No wonder I am so annoyed by it.

Again,

1) They SAID they upped it. And it did go up for us season to season.

2) Whether its just me or not, it should not be happening. Unrealistic results are still unrealistic, regardless of how often. Girl scouts ought never to be on the field, ever, not even once. Etc, see above. Same points apply. Your lowest fumbling player should be your KR, its a part of that process to hold on to the ball precisely because it is so important.

3) You think he hate me?

LOL Any moron with half a brain could understand that table without labels. I guess I give you too much credit (at this point I have no idea why).

1) Exactly so why are you surprised that you are fumbling more.

2) I am sorry but as long as you continue to use unrealistic strategy with your ST's you should fumble the ball at an unrealistic rate. A NFL team would not wait 8 weeks to address a major problem with the return teams like you did. You cant expect realistic results if you are unwilling to play realistically. It would appear most teams lowest fumbling player is their returner but most teams actually play this game with some sense of reason. Also, your analogy is off... you returner is obviously not girl scout quality (obviously since a little better depth chart has limited the fumbling)... your problem was you put the girl scout leader in charge of your ST's. Sure you cant make in game changes when they screw up the depth chart but it is just one game. You cant wait 8 games to make changes and then have the audacity to bitch and blame the SIM. The game allows you to use subpar players and still get "NFL-like" results... the game will never allow you to use "girl scout quality" coordinators and produce "NFL-like" results.

3) No I think he sucks and has no business touching a ST depth chart. I think you hate yourself and thats why you continue to allow him to run your STs.

Originally posted by yello1
Originally posted by aaasahi

When can you understand we are not simulate for NFL?


When you can you understand that if we weren't, GLB would have no customers.



I dont know how you can say that when clearly you think there are a lot of aspects about this game that does not simulate the NFL and yet...

Originally posted by yello1
I DO enjoy the game, didnt spend four years and thousands of dollars here because it blows

Clearly this simulation does not have to replicate the NFL for people to enjoy this game and spend a lot of time and money here. You are probably the user who is the most frustrated that this game isnt exactly like the NFL yet here you are... your presence completely contradicts everything you say. Just accept that this game does not have to mirror the NFL. It just has to follow the general principles of "American Football".

The #1 problem with GLB is not implementing injuries and the lack of a comprehensive bounty program.

/thread

Originally posted by markm6770
I've said all along that the #1 problem with this game is the league sorting and parity. Elite leagues have parity and are very competitive and fun. World league (for the most part) has parity and the games are very competitive and fun.

Yello1.... do you agree or disagree that better league sorting would lead to more competitive games?


Yes it positively would - IF you can manage it. Thats a tough thing to do with teams being sold mid season and so forth though.

BUT there is the issue of having a reachable top goal for players to aspire to. If you make it so that the "Pro" level of play is only attainable by 10% of your player base, alot of that other 90% will give up and quit out of frustration.

Imagine buying Madden and being forced to forever play Midget League Football. You buying Madden 2013 after that?

All lawyer speak about "its not about the NFL so we don't get sued" aside, this game is ALL about the NFL. People buy it and play it because they want to play the NFL game (some redneck hayseeds aside who like College Ball more, same still applies to them but substitute NCAA top Division III (?) play for NFL). Instead they get a game where they are constantly forced to be on scrub teams because the crummy documentation and the idiotic build system leads them to build dots that can't be in the "NFL"., aka the top tiers of the game (National Pro+). That frustration in not getting what they bought, and being constantly negatively reinforced by "Your dot isnt good enough, you suck scrub, to Reg Pro Regular for you!" is going to lead them to find a new hobby toot sweet.

The smaller you make the "NFL" top tiers of the game, the more players are thusly blocked out of the end goal of GLB play and the more of them that leave in frustration.

This is another reason why the "idiot proofing" base line NFL second stringer in the build system is so important. Customers should be allowed to fail. But they shouldn't be encouraged to do so, and they should not be allowed at all to fail abysmally the way they can now.

Its just common sense. GLB is in the business of selling entertainment. If they instead are selling frustration, they are going to forever be a small niche company - or not a company at all any more.

So any balancing of the leagues has to be done in that light.

I don't really have a good suggestion on how to manage it.

Originally posted by beenlurken
Clearly this simulation does not have to replicate the NFL for the ten people left playing to enjoy this game and spend a lot of time and money here. You are probably the user who is the most frustrated that this game that didn't already quit isnt exactly like the NFL yet here you are... your presence completely contradicts everything you say. Just accept that this game does not have to mirror the NFL. It just has to follow the general principles of "American Football".

Fixed your post.

The people who are the MOST frustrated, already left - or are in the process of doing so without the pleasantries of explaining their choice on the forums.

I mean come on been. Grab ten people off the street and say "Whats the first thing that comes to mind when I say "American Football"? And NFL is going to be the answer from any of them that do not live in North Texas or Montana or Oklahoma etc - and for THEM Its going to be Big Ten or the like. Maybe in parts of Texas High School.

But the thing is that GLB does not model ANY of them.

GLB - World League GLB - most closely resembles real life Pee Wee play.

Which is funny because GLB Pee Wee League play is the one that comes closest to the NFL.

Originally posted by yello1
BUT there is the issue of having a reachable top goal for players to aspire to. If you make it so that the "Pro" level of play is only attainable by 10% of your player base, alot of that other 90% will give up and quit out of frustration.

That's where you're wrong. Any team that spends the time and even half asses it can get to Pro. That's the reason why Pro doesn't mean anything anymore. It's the reason we need to contract the leagues. Anyone, as long as they stick with it, can reach Pro.

WL is different, but Pro and dumbass can reach.

Originally posted by yello1
Yes it positively would - IF you can manage it. Thats a tough thing to do with teams being sold mid season and so forth though.


Excellent. We agree then. Was that so hard?

I've never had a team in World League and I've never coordinated at the World League level. I do not consider it a God-given right to be able to play there. But I am happy that there is a place for the elite teams and coordinators to compete... and it motivates me to win Pro level games in hopes that I may one day earn a slot there.

If my teams could not compete at Pro level, I'd feel the same way and would be motivated to win at the regional pro level in hopes of earning a shot to compete at the National Pro level.

Originally posted by yello1
Imagine buying Madden and being forced to forever play Midget League Football. You buying Madden 2013 after that?

I'd be even less likely to buy Madden 2013 if I went 16-0 with a shitty team and there was no challenge involved. There's a PS3 game out there called Dark Souls. This game is practically impossible and you will die many, many times. But it is hugely popular because of the challenge presented. Every battle won feels like an immense accomplishment.

Originally posted by yello1
The people who are the MOST frustrated, already left - or are in the process of doing so without the pleasantries of explaining their choice on the forums.

Newsflash... people won't be playing this game forever. See "QuickHit." People eventually lose interest for various reasons and move on. But I'll say one thing, you won't keep the diehards around if the game is made less complex. Good builders and game planners deserve to be the kings of the hill. Once those things no longer matter, they will be gone.

Originally posted by markm6770
Newsflash... people won't be playing this game forever. See "QuickHit." People eventually lose interest for various reasons and move on. But I'll say one thing, you won't keep the diehards around if the game is made less complex. Good builders and game planners deserve to be the kings of the hill. Once those things no longer matter, they will be gone.



very true statement and something i've discussed with other vets in the game in another forum recently. most of us welcome the complexity but it's not complex to us - we all grew up with the game. every season we were fed another piece of complexity. there is certainly a discussion to be had about whether the current status of the game is sustainable; and i'm on the side that feels the game is too complex. and yet, im the first one out the door if i lose that aspect.

GLB must make a business decision here and then steer towards that. i don't have the answers.

Originally posted by geekor
That's where you're wrong. Any team that spends the time and even half asses it can get to Pro. That's the reason why Pro doesn't mean anything anymore. It's the reason we need to contract the leagues. Anyone, as long as they stick with it, can reach Pro.

WL is different, but Pro any dumbass can reach.



This... sadly yello is unable to comprehend that.

Originally posted by markm6770
Originally posted by yello1

Imagine buying Madden and being forced to forever play Midget League Football. You buying Madden 2013 after that?

I'd be even less likely to buy Madden 2013 if I went 16-0 with a shitty team and there was no challenge involved. There's a PS3 game out there called Dark Souls. This game is practically impossible and you will die many, many times. But it is hugely popular because of the challenge presented. Every battle won feels like an immense accomplishment.

This... yello is unable to comprehend because Nat Pro feels like a challenge for his shitty Pro teams. He has no idea how boring the season is for the teams that are actually competing to win the league. He doesnt understand that his team is viewed by many as a bye week.


Originally posted by markm6770
Originally posted by yello1

The people who are the MOST frustrated, already left - or are in the process of doing so without the pleasantries of explaining their choice on the forums.

Newsflash... people won't be playing this game forever. See "QuickHit." People eventually lose interest for various reasons and move on. But I'll say one thing, you won't keep the diehards around if the game is made less complex. Good builders and game planners deserve to be the kings of the hill. Once those things no longer matter, they will be gone.


What markm said. The main reasons people are leaving/have left this game are that they have become bored after playing this game for so long, bored because outside of WL competition does not exist, frustrated with the seasonal changes (this is a big killer... so many big changes that fuck up builds mid-process or force coordinators to retool/relearn AI's), etc. Very few people are leaving or have left because GLB does not replicate the NFL exactly. You and Ken1 are probably the biggest "realistic" sim supporters and you are still here and Ken1 can seem to stay away long when he leaves.

Originally posted by yello1
ten people left playing

So you agree the current userbase is so small that it cannot support 8 Nat Pro leagues and that Nat Pro should be contracted.

I love how people make this out to be a permanent thing. If GLB were to ever advertise and attract an influx of users Bort could easily expand Nat Pro back to 8 leagues but as it is now it is ridiculous to keep it at 8 leagues.

Originally posted by evileyez
very true statement and something i've discussed with other vets in the game in another forum recently. most of us welcome the complexity but it's not complex to us - we all grew up with the game. every season we were fed another piece of complexity. there is certainly a discussion to be had about whether the current status of the game is sustainable; and i'm on the side that feels the game is too complex. and yet, im the first one out the door if i lose that aspect.

GLB must make a business decision here and then steer towards that. i don't have the answers.



This is the truth. GLB is amazingly complex for a "game" and has slowly been moving closer and closer to an actual simulation imo. Despite that, remove the complexity and the user base will decline immediately. I think the answer lies somewhere in the grounds of a real support team. Not people who deal with the current support issues but more like "mentors" willing to discuss and advise newbies in certain areas. Combine that with newbie only leagues, trainer leagues, or some other type of league where no trophies are given out and there is no incentive for any of the trophy whoring vets to actually create a multi.

These "mentors" or training mods would be responsible for maybe a handful of newbie teams or maybe one aspect for those teams (advanced tactics for O or D, play creation, etc...) and each team would consist of 45-50 hand selected CPU players (by the owner) with the rest being his free dot and maybe a few he would buy for a season.

Mentors would receive rewards points similar to mods and would not need to be experts, just knowledgeable enough to convey the ideas behind the more complex aspects of GLB.

Anyway, I could elaborate and throw it in the suggestions area when I'm bored maybe but you get the idea.

Originally posted by HOODjelly
This is the truth. GLB is amazingly complex for a "game" and has slowly been moving closer and closer to an actual simulation imo. Despite that, remove the complexity and the user base will decline immediately. I think the answer lies somewhere in the grounds of a real support team. Not people who deal with the current support issues but more like "mentors" willing to discuss and advise newbies in certain areas. Combine that with newbie only leagues, trainer leagues, or some other type of league where no trophies are given out and there is no incentive for any of the trophy whoring vets to actually create a multi.

These "mentors" or training mods would be responsible for maybe a handful of newbie teams or maybe one aspect for those teams (advanced tactics for O or D, play creation, etc...) and each team would consist of 45-50 hand selected CPU players (by the owner) with the rest being his free dot and maybe a few he would buy for a season.

Mentors would receive rewards points similar to mods and would not need to be experts, just knowledgeable enough to convey the ideas behind the more complex aspects of GLB.

Anyway, I could elaborate and throw it in the suggestions area when I'm bored maybe but you get the idea.

The problem there is that 90% of the people either A) troll or B) give (or have themselves) wrong information.

the 10% that are helpful and could really mentor people are A) overloaded with their own teams or B) burnt out and leaving GLB.

So then instead you have a bunch of new coordinators, who really can't handle how much of a chore it is to set up good AI's. by the time they get to Elite's and/or Pro, they realize they are nothing and quit. Or they stick around and that's why you have horrible Pro team that shouldn't be that bad.

You occasionally get the guys who will stick it out and gradually get better. But that happens way less now compared to the past.