Warrior General Games

Originally posted by AngryDragon
So maybe we should create a new position.
Jukebait ftw

Seriously 1 juke per tick sounds like it should work for the current sim. Realistically it seems kind of high. How many real HBs juke with every stride? I am guessing that the combination of lots of juke SAs and VAs makes more than one juke per play possible.

qft

Originally posted by AngryDragon
So maybe we should create a new position.
Jukebait ftw

Seriously 1 juke per tick sounds like it should work for the current sim. Realistically it seems kind of high. How many real HBs juke with every stride? I am guessing that the combination of lots of juke SAs and VAs makes more than one juke per play possible.

All I know is post sim changes, my guy is a different back. And I haven't changed anything with regard to the slider, as I wanted to make sure I was running with the same pre-sim fake change to ensure it was the changes implemented and not me making a change to my running style.

Originally posted by todd_terps_62
Originally posted by wombat killer

Originally posted by Deathblade


Originally posted by wombat killer



Originally posted by Deathblade




Didn't read the thread, but I would hope that it is the defender that gets the worse roll against it.

So you are saying all possible defenders make a roll and the one that scores the worst get faked?

I'm not saying that's how it works, but that's how it should work imo

That sounds terrible.

Why? Think about the Bears D. (Not may favorite team, just the first that came to mind.) Urlacher and Mike Brown are Closing in on Tea Baggins running Strong I Off Tackle (Lance Briggs got cut blocked). Urlacher is 4 yards away and Brown is 8 yards away. Tea Baggins jukes. Why should Urlacher be the one who should get faked? Even though Brown is further away, I would still expect Brown to bite before Urlacher did even though Urlacher is 'the bigger threat'....

Your example doesn't really explain a lot.

The HB is going to try and fake out the biggest threat. I don't think anyone is going to disagree with this. The RB should either be successful or not in this attempt. His successfully faking out the biggest threat shouldn't be impated by someone who rolls worse than the biggest threat.

When a HB was faking 3+ guys per play prior to the change, and now is only faking 3 guys per game... IMO, the changes are much more severe then what we are being told.

IMO, I really think the bonuses/triggers from the fake elements were reduced - more so than the recoding of 1 fake per tick versus multiple fakes per tick.

It seems like some people are saying the HB just throws out a "general" juke and multiple people can fall for it. That just seems wrong. Especially if he is limited to one juke per tic. He should be specifically trying to juke the biggest threat. It either works or it doesn't. I don't see how another defender would impact this.

Originally posted by wombat killer
It seems like some people are saying the HB just throws out a "general" juke and multiple people can fall for it. That just seems wrong. Especially if he is limited to one juke per tic. He should be specifically trying to juke the biggest threat. It either works or it doesn't. I don't see how another defender would impact this.

So, that means if the closest defender is NOT juked, that he still has no chance to fake out everyone else?

PS: Being the "biggest threat" should also make it more difficult to beat the fake roll, along with what I already suggest.

I disagree. The HB is trying to throw a fake. Period. He's throwing it at anyone watching. Some guys are more likely to fall for it. It's not as simple as "HB throws fake. Fake works. Fake applies to Biggest Threat." The biggest threat may be a guy built to not fall for the fake.

My example Urlacher was the biggest threat. As far as players go, Urlacher is less likely to be fooled then Mike Brown. Hence, the lesser threat is more likely to be the one to fall for the fake.

Originally posted by Bukowski
It used to be, when the fake SA activates, the defender that was the highest threat would normally be faked.

LOL, you just pulled that out of your ass, because it ain't true. Usually it was just the guys who failed their rolls most miserably. It's the same math & progression as it's always been now. Fakes happen when a defender is getting in position to try and make a tackle, and its in a fairly random order as to who gets picked first amongst those in range, based on which defender is acting first against the carrier. If the carrier sees the defender ready to tackle, he gets to try and fake him. If the tackler is already faked out, he can't get stack-faked, so we can go on to the next guy.

Therefore, lets say there are 3 guys trying to make the tackle.

Tick 1, you fake guy B.
Tick 2, you fail all your rolls and don't fake anybody. Guy B is still faked.
Tick 3, you can't fake guy B because he's already faked out, so you fake guy A.
Tick 4, guy B and A are already faked out, still shrunken, so you fake guy C.

Now, with this method, you do end up with fewer chances to fake people, because you have to wait until the next tick to try for the next guy when you succeed, but that's what I wanted - focus on taking out one tackler at a time.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by wombat killer

It seems like some people are saying the HB just throws out a "general" juke and multiple people can fall for it. That just seems wrong. Especially if he is limited to one juke per tic. He should be specifically trying to juke the biggest threat. It either works or it doesn't. I don't see how another defender would impact this.

So, that means if the closest defender is NOT juked, that he still has no chance to fake out everyone else?

I would think it should be a very small chance if they are farther back. I certainly think distance to the ball carrier should matter.

Honestly, it should make one fake attempt, and this should ONLY be against the closest defender. Wether this fake attempt succeeds or fails, the 'faker' needs to lose a little more speed than they do presently.

The thought that it might go down the list until it succeeds or is out of range is stupid.

You get to try to fake the guy closest. Thats how it should be.

Originally posted by todd_terps_62
I disagree. The HB is trying to throw a fake. Period. He's throwing it at anyone watching. Some guys are more likely to fall for it. It's not as simple as "HB throws fake. Fake works. Fake applies to Biggest Threat." The biggest threat may be a guy built to not fall for the fake.

My example Urlacher was the biggest threat. As far as players go, Urlacher is less likely to be fooled then Mike Brown. Hence, the lesser threat is more likely to be the one to fall for the fake.

Agree - if you're always just targeting the "biggest threat" it's likely you'll never fake anyone at all, because the biggest threat won't get faked.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Bukowski

It used to be, when the fake SA activates, the defender that was the highest threat would normally be faked.

LOL, you just pulled that out of your ass, because it ain't true.

All I needed to read.
Though I knew that before you said it bort.

Thanks for the info!

Originally posted by todd_terps_62
I disagree. The HB is trying to throw a fake. Period. He's throwing it at anyone watching. Some guys are more likely to fall for it. It's not as simple as "HB throws fake. Fake works. Fake applies to Biggest Threat." The biggest threat may be a guy built to not fall for the fake.

My example Urlacher was the biggest threat. As far as players go, Urlacher is less likely to be fooled then Mike Brown. Hence, the lesser threat is more likely to be the one to fall for the fake.

What? HBs throw fakes at specific players.

Originally posted by wombat killer
It seems like some people are saying the HB just throws out a "general" juke and multiple people can fall for it. That just seems wrong. Especially if he is limited to one juke per tic. He should be specifically trying to juke the biggest threat. It either works or it doesn't. I don't see how another defender would impact this.

I don't think any HB says, "I'm going to juke, but it only applies to the MLB." I think they'll take what they can get because there are multiple threats and the idea is to avoid all of them....or as many as possible....so you can't get too specific.

Originally posted by TyrannyVaunt
Originally posted by AngryDragon

So maybe we should create a new position.
Jukebait ftw

Seriously 1 juke per tick sounds like it should work for the current sim. Realistically it seems kind of high. How many real HBs juke with every stride? I am guessing that the combination of lots of juke SAs and VAs makes more than one juke per play possible.

All I know is post sim changes, my guy is a different back. And I haven't changed anything with regard to the slider, as I wanted to make sure I was running with the same pre-sim fake change to ensure it was the changes implemented and not me making a change to my running style.

I see your point. I wonder how complicated the code already is. I would bet one major juke maybe 2 for an extreme build may be enough if it could affect a group of defenders that are within a certain radius of the HB.

I mean it was getting out of hand with D linemen that were blocked on the other side of the field being juked. Still I can see 2 or 3 defenders surrounding the HB and he should be able to make a move to fool them. If he is that much better than them. I think the problem is there is no direct counter to the VA and SA combos that made the HBs so dominant this season. Super vision is the only thing that came to mind but that was balanced with the juke and fake SAs before the VAs enhanced the Jukes.

I wonder if any tests have been done for this or are scheduled to be done?