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Originally posted by Larry Roadgrader
Ironing alert!


So businesses don't hire people to meet demand? They just say fuck it, I don't want to make more money and slowly piss off my customers.
 
Cowpoker
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Originally posted by carumba10
I understand it isn't a simple problem or a one size fits all solution.

My local grocery store has the option of a self serve checkout. I won't use it. A McDonalds near me has just installed self serve kiosks. You order and pay with basically an atm machine. They bring your order out to you. I won't use that either.

Simple things like home maintenance or renovations. Good luck finding someone ...and if you actually do, cross your fingers and hope they are honest and do a good job.

Electricians, carpenters, plumbers, mechanics are all in demand. Yet the apprenticeship programs have been cut. Graduating high schoolers have no interest. They prefer their bachelor of Arts degree or some type of Human Resources job.


Eventually that will even out, there are many business owners and that are in that 60+ age range and they will leave a void that the market will fill. Currently it just seems like we have 5 young people in their mid 20's with a quality degree for every available job but 1 person in their mid 20's who has the ability to weld or wire a house to fill 5 jobs, that will even out eventually.

I need to find the article that I read that talked about what percentage of the US's wealth will change hands in the next decade and how many small business owners will pass their position on in the next decade. It just blew me away how rapidly the face of the country will change in the next 5-10 years and we have never seen a massive transition like that before. The people handling the decision making and the checkbook will be completely new.



 
Cowpoker
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Originally posted by glbisthewaytobe
So businesses don't hire people to meet demand? They just say fuck it, I don't want to make more money and slowly piss off my customers.


He is probably doubting your assumption that we will create additional demand or if there is any additional demand, if it will lead to an increase in jobs instead of an increase in automation or import.

Also, companies do not expand simply to meet demand, there has to be a profit margin there or what is the point of getting bigger.
 
Catullus16
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giffen vs veblen: electric boogaloo
 
carumba10
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Originally posted by Cowpoker
Eventually that will even out, there are many business owners and that are in that 60+ age range and they will leave a void that the market will fill. Currently it just seems like we have 5 young people in their mid 20's with a quality degree for every available job but 1 person in their mid 20's who has the ability to weld or wire a house to fill 5 jobs, that will even out eventually.

I need to find the article that I read that talked about what percentage of the US's wealth will change hands in the next decade and how many small business owners will pass their position on in the next decade. It just blew me away how rapidly the face of the country will change in the next 5-10 years and we have never seen a massive transition like that before. The people handling the decision making and the checkbook will be completely new.





I hope so. but I have my doubts. Talk to 19-24 year old and many consider trades as grunt work and is beneath them.
 
Cowpoker
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Originally posted by carumba10
I hope so. but I have my doubts. Talk to 19-24 year old and many consider trades as grunt work and is beneath them.


Depends on where you live, how you were brought up.

There are still 19-24 year olds who consider office work, wearing a suit and tie to be a death sentence.

We'll be fine in that regard.
 
TruBucfan22
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Originally posted by carumba10
I hope so. but I have my doubts. Talk to 19-24 year old and many consider trades as grunt work and is beneath them.


Little do they know i make more than most of them. Suckers.

But tbh, when my sons grow up i am going to try and send them to college before i sign them up for an apprenticeship. If they can't cut it as doctors or lawyers then maybe i'll set them up in a trade.

No point in not reaching for the stars.


 
Catullus16
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wow, trubuc makes more than most 19-year-olds
 
TruBucfan22
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Originally posted by Catullus16
wow, trubuc makes more than most 19-year-olds


Damn right!
 
Lurchy
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Originally posted by Cowpoker
He is probably doubting your assumption that we will create additional demand or if there is any additional demand, if it will lead to an increase in jobs instead of an increase in automation or import.

Also, companies do not expand simply to meet demand, there has to be a profit margin there or what is the point of getting bigger.


I think profit is implicit in his definition of demand. At least that's how I understood it.

Nobody in their right mind would expand to lose money, long term. Short term? Yes, most def, but not long term.
 
Venkman
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Originally posted by carumba10

Electricians, carpenters, plumbers, mechanics are all in demand. Yet the apprenticeship programs have been cut. Graduating high schoolers have no interest. They prefer their bachelor of Arts degree or some type of Human Resources job.


Originally posted by carumba10
I hope so. but I have my doubts. Talk to 19-24 year old and many consider trades as grunt work and is beneath them.


I think that cowpoker has already addressed this, but I agree that this is probably very dependent on where you are. I've taught in two fairly rural school districts in Maine, and a good sized population of both of those districts has opted for vocational ed in their last couple of years of high school. a lot of those kids are opting the construction, electrician, plumbing route, etc. another good sized population in those districts wants nothing more than to work on the farm or for their dads logging business.
in other words, in rural areas, there is no shortage of kids who are more than happy to go in to grunt work.
 
Cowpoker
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Originally posted by Lurchy
I think profit is implicit in his definition of demand. At least that's how I understood it.

Nobody in their right mind would expand to lose money, long term. Short term? Yes, most def, but not long term.


Nobody in their right mind describes a number of proposed policy changes by the presidential candidates.

The differences between what has happened in the past and what would happen now with higher wages is that in the past, every step of the process was more American. What I mean is that products sold in the US were largely from US raw materials, manufactured in the US, sold in the US. You can go a step further and say that many of the profits from each of those steps was reinvested in the US. That is currently not the case.

In theory, we should be able to set a minimum wage at any price point and businesses and industries that have an important enough role, have a quality product/service that is deemed important will be able to adjust to it and survive. Those that can't, don't belong in this market. There might be a whole lot of hurt and adjustment to get there but it isn't the end of the world.

That being said, some of the soap box preaching needs to stop. Let's shame American companies for attempting to compete globally while we keep legislating more costs. At the same time, as individuals we are free to shop for the cheapest possible price without any consideration for where it was manufactured, brag about the price we paid and then bitch about the process.
 
Cowpoker
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Originally posted by glbisthewaytobe
Do you want to know what I think we should actually do?

Start by getting rid of individual state income taxes, cut every federal tax bracket in half(only personal income) and institute a sales tax on everything except grocered food items, clothing, water, and electricity. Then raise the federal minimum wage to $10/hour (which is what most of America can agree on as acceptable). Then, tie wages to payroll tax credits. So if you only pay minimum wage you pay the full amount of payroll tax, pay all your american employees more than minimum wage and see that payroll tax disappear. Then tie employee benefits to income tax. Give your american employees no benefits (paid vacation, sick leave, etc) pay the full income tax for your bracket. Have a lot of benefits you hand out to your american employees and see the income tax disappear. Then you marginally increase import taxes to the point where it evens out the cost of goods foreign or domestic.

We should tax people at the point of action. Not before they can be active in society. More people will be less burdened by a drastic cut in income taxes and be able to purchase more, and we will make more money through taxing every sale action that happens. That's why states that have marginal income taxes that are tempered with a sales tax run more smoothly and have more active state economies more often than not. It's only in places like California where they have both high income and sales taxes where it doesn't work.


I like the tax idea personally because I don't consume many products. That being said, any idea what your budget would look like in terms of revenue ?

You realize that import taxes and tariffs can hurt you as much as they help you right ? If you look at oil and fuel alone, we are not that far removed from $100 a barrel, the only reason we are currently at a fraction of that is because of our ability to drill our own oil, if we aggressively added a tariff to foreign oil to support the Texas, ND, OK, Alaska regions, we would likely still be $70+ for oil and $3.50+ for a gallon of gas. I maybe see the dark side of these trade deals more then the average person, we just recently approved a trade deal with Columbia that removed an 80% tax on US beef and TPP will ratchet down what is currently a 39.5% tariff on US beef that Japan has in place and that is one of our largest export markets. The importance of those trade deals being that as the middle class grows worldwide, they consume energy and their diets change and we are one of the largest suppliers of protein and refined fuel and you want to fuck that up now ? That is shitty timing, we already weathered the loss of production jobs and now when it is our turn to reap the rewards from those sacrifices and investments, you want to fuck the whole thing up ? As much as it might pain me and others to admit, we are WTO's bitch. The American consumer supported Country of Origin Labeling (COOL) where US companies were allowed to label a beef product as born, raised, butchered in the USA and Mexico and Canada sued the US with WTO and WTO ruled in their favor to allow them to impose tariff increases which would have cost the US beef industry over 1 billion dollars a year. The US congress caved in immediately, they had no choice. Basically, Canada and Mexico have more control over your food then you do.
 
Cowpoker
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The funny part being that we are net importers of beef, we also import ethanol as stupid as that sounds. You can't isolate yourself from the global market and then expect to compete in it.
 
Catullus16
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Originally posted by TruBucfan22
Damn right!


and they don't even know!
 
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