Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Cybertron
Star players do NOT = pro bowlers. Star players are more like "good" players. Not every S* player makes the all-star game. An NFL all pro player would be more like a S* player with a great build.

I would rather they put a hard cap on the number of S* players than reduce the cap. If the cap is reduced, then even with lower number of S*s, the roster will not be filled out.

So to be clear... If its a great S* build that counts as an All Pro... MEANING any good agent would in fact have 9-12 All pros...

hey just throwing this out there, how come a QB's size doesn't affect his pass power at all? If you set any QB's strength to 10 and his confidence to 10, it doesn't matter what else you do with his stats, as long as you have the gunslinger trait and no other detrimental traits to the pass power cap, no matter his size, his pass power cap will always be 99. So a 5'10 165 lb QB has the same exact pass power cap as a 6'6 253 lb QB as long as they're built the same. I feel like the little tweaks to balance and tech and stuff like that are pretty cool but why not power? 🤔

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
I would rather Zone CBs get a new SA and some more plays on defense, but that's me lol

I think that's most of us.

You're the creator of Defensive plays. Everyone is waiting on you to make them.

I'm too busy to make new ones as I'm fixing old ones.

Though we are missing a ton of Passing concepts in this game.

Originally posted by Kayoh
hey just throwing this out there, how come a QB's size doesn't affect his pass power at all? If you set any QB's strength to 10 and his confidence to 10, it doesn't matter what else you do with his stats, as long as you have the gunslinger trait and no other detrimental traits to the pass power cap, no matter his size, his pass power cap will always be 99. So a 5'10 165 lb QB has the same exact pass power cap as a 6'6 253 lb QB as long as they're built the same. I feel like the little tweaks to balance and tech and stuff like that are pretty cool but why not power? 🤔

I'm not sure there is a great deal of correlation between QB body size and actual pass power. I'm not saying there is no correlation but Passing velocity is largely based on flexability, shoulder strength, hand grip/size, and arm length proportional to your body size. Basically a whip principle source of the energy applied times the length of the whip.

Dieter Brock was 5'11" 195 (Listed and likely smaller) and most of his measurables for pure "arm strength" which is a misnomer that everyone understands wouldn't be passed up for a couple decades by anyone - he was a CFL MVP twice and even did a stint with the Rams which injured him and ended his career (back) so the size was more about his ability to take a hit and get back up. Still he was recorded doing 93 yards from a standing pocket drop and step into a throw - that's dead ball 93 yards in the air , and 55 from his knees. He did all kinds of stretching exercises and trained by throwing a football that was basically 3x times the wieght of the ones used in games.

For much more modern , Lamar Jackson and Teddy Bridgewater in addition to both being from Louisville also are almost the exact same size 6'2" 215 there is a huge difference in arm strength.

Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes have virtually the same arm strength - Allen is bigger 6'5" 240 versus 6'2.5" 225lbs.

All height weight are from the combine - rather than listed because teams fudge those.

Originally posted by william78
I'm not sure there is a great deal of correlation between QB body size and actual pass power. I'm not saying there is no correlation but Passing velocity is largely based on flexability, shoulder strength, hand grip/size, and arm length proportional to your body size. Basically a whip principle source of the energy applied times the length of the whip.

Dieter Brock was 5'11" 195 (Listed and likely smaller) and most of his measurables for pure "arm strength" which is a misnomer that everyone understands wouldn't be passed up for a couple decades by anyone - he was a CFL MVP twice and even did a stint with the Rams which injured him and ended his career (back) so the size was more about his ability to take a hit and get back up. Still he was recorded doing 93 yards from a standing pocket drop and step into a throw - that's dead ball 93 yards in the air , and 55 from his knees. He did all kinds of stretching exercises and trained by throwing a football that was basically 3x times the wieght of the ones used in games.

For much more modern , Lamar Jackson and Teddy Bridgewater in addition to both being from Louisville also are almost the exact same size 6'2" 215 there is a huge difference in arm strength.

Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes have virtually the same arm strength - Allen is bigger 6'5" 240 versus 6'2.5" 225lbs.

All height weight are from the combine - rather than listed because teams fudge those.
I fully understand that it isn't a perfect 1:1 ratio where a person who is larger than another person must necessarily have a stronger arm than their smaller counterpart, but I don't think that's really how size works in GLB2. Someone who is taller can very easily have better innate balance than most shorter people, or vice versa. I know plenty of short people who tend to be relatively dopic and ungraceful. I still get the general idea that taller people have a harder time with balance, which is the type of logic GLB2 uses. There is literal physical proof over decades of scouting combine testing that a football player's physical size has a direct correlation to their hand size, as well as arm length, and both of those measurables also have a correlation with what we would refer to as "pass power". The correlation is absolutely there.

Data:

I'm just going to throw this out there. I spent the last 3 days running 8 scrims a day against the top 8 opponents LogZilla could schedule. My offense was Screens, so it's designed to be terrible overall. The defense was a 33/33/33 mix of 3 plays:

33% 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger - Pass Long
33% 5-2 Under 2 Same Fire- Pass Medium
33% 5-2 Over Mike Edge

For all situations, except Goal Line.

Now, I have a Man-based Defense designed to run 5-2. I don't have any Zone Awareness on any of my players (other than base level) and I don't even have 4 LBs on my roster to properly run 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger.

Here's the data against Passing plays:

Cover 3 Tiger: Plays 327 - Comp 47.7% - Int 4.9% - Sack 12.8% - YPA of 5.4 - YPC 11.4 - Net YPA 2.34
Under 2 Sam Fire: Plays 299 - Comp 53.8% - Int 2.7% - Sack 11.7% - YPA of 5.8 - YPC 10.8 - Net YPA 3.78
5-2 Over Mike Edge: Plays 320 - 49.4% - Int 0.9% - Sack 15.0% - YPA of 5.5 - YPC of 11.2 - Net YPA 4.08

So after 300 plays, against opponents in a similar "tier" as LogZilla, both Zone plays outperformed the Man play my 7 S* Defense is built to run.

No "test" is perfect, but when a play I literally can't field an appropriate roster for is outperforming my best Passing D play by 1.66 YPA, isn't there even a chance that something is wrong?

What else am I to think?

Originally posted by Xars
Data:

I'm just going to throw this out there. I spent the last 3 days running 8 scrims a day against the top 8 opponents LogZilla could schedule. My offense was Screens, so it's designed to be terrible overall. The defense was a 33/33/33 mix of 3 plays:

33% 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger - Pass Long
33% 5-2 Under 2 Same Fire- Pass Medium
33% 5-2 Over Mike Edge

For all situations, except Goal Line.

Now, I have a Man-based Defense designed to run 5-2. I don't have any Zone Awareness on any of my players (other than base level) and I don't even have 4 LBs on my roster to properly run 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger.

Here's the data against Passing plays:

Cover 3 Tiger: Plays 327 - Comp 47.7% - Int 4.9% - Sack 12.8% - YPA of 5.4 - YPC 11.4 - Net YPA 2.34
Under 2 Sam Fire: Plays 299 - Comp 53.8% - Int 2.7% - Sack 11.7% - YPA of 5.8 - YPC 10.8 - Net YPA 3.78
5-2 Over Mike Edge: Plays 320 - 49.4% - Int 0.9% - Sack 15.0% - YPA of 5.5 - YPC of 11.2 - Net YPA 4.08

So after 300 plays, against opponents in a similar "tier" as LogZilla, both Zone plays outperformed the Man play my 7 S* Defense is built to run.

No "test" is perfect, but when a play I literally can't field an appropriate roster for is outperforming my best Passing D play by 1.66 YPA, isn't there even a chance that something is wrong?

What else am I to think?




can you post that data including run defense stats?

Originally posted by Xars
Data:

I'm just going to throw this out there. I spent the last 3 days running 8 scrims a day against the top 8 opponents LogZilla could schedule. My offense was Screens, so it's designed to be terrible overall. The defense was a 33/33/33 mix of 3 plays:

33% 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger - Pass Long
33% 5-2 Under 2 Same Fire- Pass Medium
33% 5-2 Over Mike Edge

For all situations, except Goal Line.

Now, I have a Man-based Defense designed to run 5-2. I don't have any Zone Awareness on any of my players (other than base level) and I don't even have 4 LBs on my roster to properly run 3-4 Cover 3 Tiger.

Here's the data against Passing plays:

Cover 3 Tiger: Plays 327 - Comp 47.7% - Int 4.9% - Sack 12.8% - YPA of 5.4 - YPC 11.4 - Net YPA 2.34
Under 2 Sam Fire: Plays 299 - Comp 53.8% - Int 2.7% - Sack 11.7% - YPA of 5.8 - YPC 10.8 - Net YPA 3.78
5-2 Over Mike Edge: Plays 320 - 49.4% - Int 0.9% - Sack 15.0% - YPA of 5.5 - YPC of 11.2 - Net YPA 4.08

So after 300 plays, against opponents in a similar "tier" as LogZilla, both Zone plays outperformed the Man play my 7 S* Defense is built to run.

No "test" is perfect, but when a play I literally can't field an appropriate roster for is outperforming my best Passing D play by 1.66 YPA, isn't there even a chance that something is wrong?

What else am I to think?




Builds are a factor in play results. I make players a specific way to get certain plays to be successful. I tested this with Lexington running the exact same defense as KY vs the Bulls and got two drastic different results being that KY easily handled Hawaii while Lex got steam rolled.

I posted this in the Academy discord but for posterity my thoughts on the test are as follows.

I think are your CBs are liability slow in man. They have a ton of intercepting which is going to boost INT rates when theyre in the C3 versus C0.

One of your LBs has a ton of intercepting, same concept of massively boosted INTs in C3 versus man when he's in single coverage with the TE.

No Snap Reaction on your blitzing LB which massively benefits the C3 versus 5-2.

And your DEs are built to spin and not TV which hinders LBs routes to the QB in 5-2.

Basically, your team is more set up to succeed running C3 Tigers than a 5-2 Blitz.

Originally posted by Xars

Here's the data against Passing plays:

Cover 3 Tiger: Plays 327 - Comp 47.7% - Int 4.9% - Sack 12.8% - YPA of 5.4 - YPC 11.4 - Net YPA 2.34
Under 2 Sam Fire: Plays 299 - Comp 53.8% - Int 2.7% - Sack 11.7% - YPA of 5.8 - YPC 10.8 - Net YPA 3.78
5-2 Over Mike Edge: Plays 320 - 49.4% - Int 0.9% - Sack 15.0% - YPA of 5.5 - YPC of 11.2 - Net YPA 4.08

So after 300 plays, against opponents in a similar "tier" as LogZilla, both Zone plays outperformed the Man play my 7 S* Defense is built to run.

No "test" is perfect, but when a play I literally can't field an appropriate roster for is outperforming my best Passing D play by 1.66 YPA, isn't there even a chance that something is wrong?

What else am I to think?



Great data. The problem is largely a lack of good passing plays. As zone has been buffed over the seasons, passing has never been given new counter plays, so here we are. Would love more long passing plays in every formation, and new ones for the Trips formations.

Right now, a few zone plays can essentially cover the vast majority of passing plays. For example, in 3WR Trips, there just one long passing play. medium has just 6, short has 4. There are so few plays in what would logically be the best formation to counter a zone defense. In other formations, zones can counter most passing plays because EotP defenders are roaming in the few areas receiver routes actually go.

For me, I'm nearly always pro buffing over nerfing. Like with the passing arc change which has helped. To me, GLB2 just needs more passing plays, we've been using mostly the same the last 5+ years. Play Action was good counter a couple years ago, but got nerfed into oblivion.

Originally posted by BoDiddley

Great data. The problem is largely a lack of good passing plays. As zone has been buffed over the seasons, passing has never been given new counter plays, so here we are. Would love more long passing plays in every formation, and new ones for the Trips formations.

Right now, a few zone plays can essentially cover the vast majority of passing plays. For example, in 3WR Trips, there just one long passing play. medium has just 6, short has 4. There are so few plays in what would logically be the best formation to counter a zone defense. In other formations, zones can counter most passing plays because EotP defenders are roaming in the few areas receiver routes actually go.

For me, I'm nearly always pro buffing over nerfing. Like with the passing arc change which has helped. To me, GLB2 just needs more passing plays, we've been using mostly the same the last 5+ years. Play Action was good counter a couple years ago, but got nerfed into oblivion.

elliX disagrees.

Anyway, we're discussing/ debating if the play success (Cover 3 Tiger) is too dependent on the RO. My cover guys have no Zone awareness so that shouldn't be helping.

Originally posted by Xars
elliX disagrees.

Anyway, we're discussing/ debating if the play success (Cover 3 Tiger) is too dependent on the RO. My cover guys have no Zone awareness so that shouldn't be helping.



I don't think the issue is with the blitz at all. It has more to do with how zones are handled in the passing game.

Originally posted by BoDiddley



For me, I'm nearly always pro buffing over nerfing. Like with the passing arc change which has helped. To me, GLB2 just needs more passing plays, we've been using mostly the same the last 5+ years. Play Action was good counter a couple years ago, but got nerfed into oblivion.

I'm normally very against nerf but Xars and others in regards to those 2 plays has a good point.

I still think a mismatch formation drape penalty is a better overall 1st step to address defenses that always seem to matchup but logically should not. We may find that the some existing passing plays work better against those plays.

Play Action if its run correctly should freeze the DL as well - also the roll out / boot plays...right now they are just way too risky because the QB waits to make a decision until he's at the end of the roll out. If a blitz is coming to that side he runs right into it. It wouldn't be too bad if he just chucked the ball into the stands or at least somewhat reliably did so , certainly don't want to penalize callign a D that bltizes in the face of a roll out - that said its a bit goofy he directly runs into the DE or OLB.

Added this to Suggestions:

Filter the Defensive Playbook by Tags instead of Formations.

Have:
Pass Short
Pass Medium
Pass Long
Inside Run
Outside Run

and have a 5 play minimum for each playbook.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum/thread/5319710

Originally posted by Adderfist
I don't think the issue is with the blitz at all. It has more to do with how zones are handled in the passing game.

But there is a Blitz on the play so you can't just discount it.

Whether or not my RO blitzer is built optimally for the Tiger blitz or not, how do players with no Zone Awareness generate so many more INTs than on Man plays where there's a 6 man rush vs. 5 and they have the appropriate Awareness.

Clearly, Awareness isn't part of the equation.

Hence, why BSB was able to run a Hybrid D with low Awareness scores on players (40-50).