Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar

Give cpu dots templates (let the players contribute, please)


But keep the builds closed.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
What would you give Zone if you gave Man it's best SA? On an Island? I think this would just nerf zone, Man is already pretty strong as is.

I believe Opportunist could be better if the cost of Strip Teach was reduced somewhat, at least that's where I'd start.

As far as anti-PA, I'd think Tunnel Vision should have that built into the SA already since on every run play that it fires the dot ignores the RB and goes after the QB normally.

And I'd love for LB's in Zone to react to the Run better, but I agree with what Vipermaw says... I think it might go against the base code of how zone operates. I pretty much lobbied for this not too long ago when passing power made it harder to get interceptions and that was the impression I got.

blue knights have 90+ strip on every defender and they get fumbles but its not great

Originally posted by Majestic Gent
But keep the builds closed.



If they had templates, I could live with that

Originally posted by BoDiddley
Make Eyes on the Prize work for both man & zone.

This got me erect

Wouldn't Eyes on the Prize make Man to Man defense a little too OP? I know I sure wouldn't run zone anymore.

Originally posted by 4chanCitizen
Wouldn't Eyes on the Prize make Man to Man defense a little too OP? I know I sure wouldn't run zone anymore.

Yep, that's why I asked what would you give Zone to compensate... Man is already strong and that would make playing zone obsolete.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Yep, that's why I asked what would you give Zone to compensate... Man is already strong and that would make playing zone obsolete.

Man D is already OP when done right. People need to get off the zone hate thing. There's way too many weakness against zone D.

Originally posted by 4chanCitizen
Wouldn't Eyes on the Prize make Man to Man defense a little too OP? I know I sure wouldn't run zone anymore.

People have wanted a Man Int TD SA since forever. Would have to be done in tandem with upgrades to QB SAs though, particularly something based on Tech & Accuracy. I'm a big believer of enabling more build diversity in general. But if not Eyes, Man D needs something like it, and make it proc off Cov Tech like Cover Expert does.

As for Zone, it has both Eyes and Zone Shark. What zone needs is better reactions for players, and that would go a long way to helping it.

Both defenses are good when done right. The argument that zone doesn't do well vs. run is a fallacy created only by zone owners. Zone teams can consistently hold S* HBs under 3ypc. Zone obsolete because of a man INT SA? Give me a break. Zone still allows for more INT chances than man - we don't even know what Cdog and co. would create for a man INT SA.

As it stands, the SP boost that EoTP activates is unmatched. It boosts very costly skills ~100k SP. That, paired with the fact that it fires for an unlimited amount of time AND grants a massive morale hit and gain makes it one of, if not the, strongest SA in the game. I don't think I'd care much for a man INT SA if that weren't the case.

Originally posted by o The Boss x
I don't think I'd care much for a man INT SA if that weren't the case.

Yeh, I'm with you on this. Really no reason it was reserved only for zone defenses.

Originally posted by BoDiddley
People have wanted a Man Int TD SA since forever. Would have to be done in tandem with upgrades to QB SAs though, particularly something based on Tech & Accuracy. I'm a big believer of enabling more build diversity in general. But if not Eyes, Man D needs something like it, and make it proc off Cov Tech like Cover Expert does.

As for Zone, it has both Eyes and Zone Shark. What zone needs is better reactions for players, and that would go a long way to helping it.

There is Pick 6... have anyone tried to make it work? I don't particularly like it as that I built my Man CB's to be shutdown types. Maybe more testing needs to be done with that SA then see if it needs some love or just adjusting.

As far as EotP, yes, its a great SA, but you have to be running specific coverage situation to get it to fire (underneath zone with help overtop). Zone shark is far inferior and deals with knocking the ball loose while in underneath zone coverage (clearly meant for LB's). I've ran both defenses with some success and I think On An Island is arguably about as good as EotP. Sure it doesn't get Int's, but it helps you get pass deflections that you just can't match in Zone even wit that SA because you have to spend so many more points elsewhere to make zone work. I'd even argue that the majority of pass defense SA's benefit Man more than Zone when you look at them, like Third Down Stopper for example... I'd say in my opinion that Zone needs more SA's just to match Man.

I agree with you that Zone needs better reactions however, I argued for that when they boosted Pass Power and made ints harder to come by.


Originally posted by o The Boss x
Both defenses are good when done right. The argument that zone doesn't do well vs. run is a fallacy created only by zone owners. Zone teams can consistently hold S* HBs under 3ypc. Zone obsolete because of a man INT SA? Give me a break. Zone still allows for more INT chances than man - we don't even know what Cdog and co. would create for a man INT SA.

As it stands, the SP boost that EoTP activates is unmatched. It boosts very costly skills ~100k SP. That, paired with the fact that it fires for an unlimited amount of time AND grants a massive morale hit and gain makes it one of, if not the, strongest SA in the game. I don't think I'd care much for a man INT SA if that weren't the case.

DlCurt and I have and we both agree that until you hit Pro, Zone is really weak vs inside rushing, and gives up chunks of yards in general.

Did you run even Zone for any significant period of time? Recently maybe? If not, maybe the fallacy isn't on our part, man.

And if you give Man one of the only two SA's Zone has, then why would you play Zone? I would just run Man, give up less yards, get a much better 3rd down defense, have better chances of shutting out my opponent and do so with way more consistency that Zone. That's the trade off I've gathered from years of running Man vs the past year of running Zone, Consistency vs Big Play ability. You'd just leave game balance in favor of making Man stronger... I thought we all wanted variety.

Adding Eyes on the Prize to Man defense would reduce all incentive for running zone to basically nothing. Zone defenses would become an endangered species overnight.

Im not saying you can't run a spectacular defense with zone to defend against both the pass and the run game. But lets not kid around with ourselves here. The moment EoTP becomes a SA for Man defense almost no one is going to run zone.

If you're going to take the Strongest SA from zone defense and give it to Man what would you expect? You would have to come up with some type of incentive to continuing running zone or else we'll just be stuck with an entire aspect of the game that no one would bother to use. The only exception maybe being players with 25+ championships who are bored or just Noobs who don't know any better.

People don't want this because you think it would give the game more depth or whatever, They want this because they realize it would be busted as fuck. It also would make teams that are already virtually untouchable even more insane. Dream Team and Hawaii Bulls are both the #1 Team in their perspective ladder ranks. I could only imagine the terror if their players had the Strongest zone SA.

Originally posted by 4chanCitizen

People don't want this because you think it would give the game more depth or whatever, They want this because they realize it would be busted as fuck. It also would make teams that are already virtually untouchable even more insane. Dream Team and Hawaii Bulls are both the #1 Team in their perspective ladder ranks. I could only imagine the terror if their players had the Strongest zone SA.



Well if anything, Dream Team would take a hit with it since passing is key to it's success. I'm more than fine with the way things are.

Do we also need Power Through for elusive HBs?

Things do different things on purpose.

Originally posted by Corndog
Do we also need Power Through for elusive HBs?

Things do different things on purpose.

I mean, many elusive backs already use it, or is my sarcasm meter broken.