Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Raid
So you're saying they don't go all the way home, they just start towards it and then react when the HB gets the ball? Like the examples I showed on the chamrs?

No, I'm saying they go the zone home spot first, then make an awr check.Originally posted by Raid
I mean, that's how they react in real life in zone coverage, read run first and create depth if the run doesn't occur.

But the reactions as soon as the ball is handed off works well on the chamrs, our run numbers when running zone are great... just since we can't defend pass as no one has zone aware...

That's not what they do in the game, they drop back first, then check for a run. In game works the opposite than IRL.

Here is 4-4 Big Cover 2 Sink: https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/727248/201264

All players move back, hit their spot then make their Awr check... this bit of a delay on play read allows the HB to practically be at the LoS before I even get a chance to react. One LB is blocked soon as he reads and when the other makes the tackle, the HB already has 5 yards. Its like the entire non DL guys run away from the play before they think to stop a run. This is every single play in which a player does not blitz. This is not how zone works IRL, but before the passing nerf I accepted it was just game design... now that we have a possible pass buff/fix I'd like to see the same applied to zone awr.

You know what would be cool? If we could create players at any tiers or if we could auto enroll a pickup player into pickup games. This logging in 10 times a day thing to grind a player up to a different tier is painful.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
What I want is for the players to make an actual play read instead doing some automated movement first. I already blitz the bejeezus out of teams all game just to do what you suggested, but why do the other players have to drop back into the zone home spot first before they can read a play? Can't they read the play first before dropping back into coverage if its a pass?



Honestly that sounds like a pretty massive change they would have to undertake to adjust that. They being the programmers of this game. I'm speculating that there would be a lot of back and forth testing for that and it would probably take awhile to perfect.

Plus if those changes you suggest were to go into effect and work as you outlined- that would seem to be a high risk of making zone defense overpowered and everyone would run it.

I'm grateful for the balance, reaction time, and throwing power changes that have been implemented recently with success. I think the sim is running the best it has since I've been here...with the exception of field goal kickers

Originally posted by NLF
You know what would be cool? If we could create players at any tiers or if we could auto enroll a pickup player into pickup games. This logging in 10 times a day thing to grind a player up to a different tier is painful.

True this. I'm grinding Superstar's for my team next season and it's painful.

Originally posted by NLF
You know what would be cool? If we could create players at any tiers or if we could auto enroll a pickup player into pickup games. This logging in 10 times a day thing to grind a player up to a different tier is painful.

So basically just remove tiers and levels and everyone just makes a vet player then does nothing for the rest of their career?

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Here is 4-4 Big Cover 2 Sink: https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/727248/201264

All players move back, hit their spot then make their Awr check... this bit of a delay on play read allows the HB to practically be at the LoS before I even get a chance to react. One LB is blocked soon as he reads and when the other makes the tackle, the HB already has 5 yards. Its like the entire non DL guys run away from the play before they think to stop a run. This is every single play in which a player does not blitz. This is not how zone works IRL, but before the passing nerf I accepted it was just game design... now that we have a possible pass buff/fix I'd like to see the same applied to zone awr.

Zone defense has always been like this in this game. I could argue it is actually a benefit that they drop back into their zone first because it usually gives them more room to maneuver around blocks, unlike man, which can get caught in a cluster at times trying to pursue the runner. I actually like that feature, because it allows my players to go first to where the play art tells them to go, which usually puts them in a better position to stop the play... especially vs. the new play action plays.

They don't react until the HB gets to the LoS? They literally start moving toward the LoS the tick after the RB gets the ball and have the benefit of facing the HB so they can fire off at the HB, which is why zone D usually has an easier time with FFUMs b/c more momentum tackling straight thru the carrier.

Man has its disadvantages too:
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/727761/496951

Players run away from the play (when it is a run) to cover their man and don't react until ball has crossed LoS. That is the real benefit of zone in this game imo, ensuring there is a player in each area of the field to make a play on the ball if the player comes into their zone.

Now, I wouldn't be opposed to an SA ("Stunt") that would allow a player to stay up closer to the LoS/fake a blitz to start the play.

Corn what about smaller league sizes?

I actually like the current size of leagues

Hey kinda just rolling ideas around but what if we could make S* players for use on cpu only teams and it didn't count against our limit? The trade off being we don't have any control on who they play for. That would beef up cpu teams and provide some variety. They would however need to be "Free" like have their initial cost but free SP/AP Boost to stay in line with the rest of the cpu players.

Tldr: Auto-Assigning players to beef up CPU teams for players to create. Would feel kinda like a draft system. As CPU teams fold as player teams advance you could start coalescing these players to form really strong CPU teams with multiple S*. I could imagine a VET level CPU Team with many well built S* acting as a boss opponent that would require a proper scheme to beat.

Originally posted by o The Boss x
Zone defense has always been like this in this game. I could argue it is actually a benefit that they drop back into their zone first because it usually gives them more room to maneuver around blocks, unlike man, which can get caught in a cluster at times trying to pursue the runner.

Yet in my play shown, it does not do any of that...one ILB is blocked at his home spot with the reaction time vs the run being abysmal the other ILB makes the tackle after a 5 yard gain. Having the players not stay in their starting spots like Man and instead dropping back into a home spot they are running away from the HB, how can anyone not see that this is bad and why zone sucks vs the run.

Originally posted by o The Boss x
it allows my players to go first to where the play art tells them to go, which usually puts them in a better position to stop the play... especially vs. the new play action plays.

To stop what, the PA pass? Unfortunately that doesn't work well against rushing or defending the rest of the passing now that zone does not get picks. Having zone give up chunks and chunks of yardage without the chance of getting a TO so we can potentially stop one play type feels asinine.

Originally posted by o The Boss x
They don't react until the HB gets to the LoS? They literally start moving toward the LoS the tick after the RB gets the ball and have the benefit of facing the HB so they can fire off at the HB, which is why zone D usually has an easier time with FFUMs b/c more momentum tackling straight thru the carrier.

They literally are back peddling before he even touches the ball, taking them away from the run because they think pass first. By the time they react he is in the LOS, by the time they get to him he has his 5 yards. So no, this is wrong. Creating FF's however I agree, it along with getting picks was the benefit from using zone that gives up yards against the pass and the rush.



Originally posted by o The Boss x
Man has its disadvantages too:
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/727761/496951

Players run away from the play (when it is a run) to cover their man and don't react until ball has crossed LoS. That is the real benefit of zone in this game imo, ensuring there is a player in each area of the field to make a play on the ball if the player comes into their zone.

Now, I wouldn't be opposed to an SA ("Stunt") that would allow a player to stay up closer to the LoS/fake a blitz to start the play.

I'm aware of Man's quirks, I ran one of the better def's for years, and it is in no way in the same league as bad as Zone. There is no comparison.

I suggested zone plays with a Spy to prevent players from dropping back, but that is a band-aid at best.

Originally posted by Bretto007
Honestly that sounds like a pretty massive change they would have to undertake to adjust that. They being the programmers of this game. I'm speculating that there would be a lot of back and forth testing for that and it would probably take awhile to perfect.

They implement changes all the time and see how it works via the season its added to. Changing how the ball is intercepted is a massive change and devastating blow toward zone.

Originally posted by Bretto007
Plus if those changes you suggest were to go into effect and work as you outlined- that would seem to be a high risk of making zone defense overpowered and everyone would run it.

I'm grateful for the balance, reaction time, and throwing power changes that have been implemented recently with success. I think the sim is running the best it has since I've been here...with the exception of field goal kickers

So making zone have equal chances to stopping the run like Man after an int nerf would be OP? How???

Zone gives up consistent yards vs the pass and run when you're not playing some cpu or lower tier team, the offset was the high chance of getting TO's once your builds developed. GE ran zone for years and no one cared because they adjusted their offense's to beat him (I don't think I ever lost to GE), but as soon as you get people dead set on wanting to pass with impunity against zone the devs cave to pressure and nerf zone's ability to create TO's.

Zone is built to take out the pass... all the players drop back into coverage first. All the SA's for zone are designed to take on the pass. TV makes the DL struggle vs the run with this blitz awr nerf just to bee line to a QB. To suddenly decide after years to make it harder to intercept passes is counter intuitive to the zone's foundation and disheartening to say the least. I never complained that zone gave up rushing yards, but if you're gonna handicap it's main feature I'd expect some sort of balance to offset it.

Edit:

I agree, kicking sucks and needs buffed, they miss way too many kicks. Punter's need a minor buff, it's hard to get a decent 40 yard punt average.

You just held an all rush team to under 1ypc and you're giving up ~3.3ypc on the season. And yeah, you don't have to choose TV or pass SAs. Fix the sim to the builds will always be prevalent in a game like this but I didn't think I'd see it from someone like you.

Seems like an over the top [rope] [heel] push for a zone buff bobby boy.

Originally posted by o The Boss x
You just held an all rush team to under 1ypc and you're giving up ~3.3ypc on the season. And yeah, you don't have to choose TV or pass SAs. Fix the sim to the builds will always be prevalent in a game like this but I didn't think I'd see it from someone like you.

Seems like an over the top [rope] [heel] push for a zone buff bobby boy.

That team was a tier lower and I've stated about a dozen times my 3 S*DL are whats making the difference vs rushing now, the rest of the team still does the same nonsense it has for the past few tiers when teams ran all over me. Facts are facts, but let's not forget context when bringing them up. I just want fair play, especially since I've invested months and months trying to make zone work within the confines of how its operated for years.

I don't mind being the heel if its needed, I got plenty of bookings cuz I was a good hand to have on the roster.

Why not add run awareness to skills. Let that be a way to make players better at reading the run? Then you have a choice to make in your builds, you would definitely want Linebackers to have a higher run awareness which would take something away from pass defense traits most likely, but probably would mirror real life more.