Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Rob.
ZEB didn't slow the counters. Four rushes for 18 YPC. They just didn't didn't spam the counters which may have been what you were expecting. But ZEB is pretty terrible against that play.

People are saying counters are easy to stop but we have only 1 example of a game where they were actually stopped and hundreds of examples where they weren't.



Again, this is where just vomiting raw data into a post is very misleading.

-1
-6
18
61

This is a play that also held them to 33% passing with 5 sacks. Give me those results any day against Central. Do we really want it to work against everything again?


Let me vomit a little myself so I can show you why you can't take these stats at face value.


ZEB has a 50% TFL rate on Trips Counter.

Originally posted by Parab00n
Again, this is where just vomiting raw data into a post is very misleading.

-1
-6
18
61

This is a play that also held them to 33% passing with 5 sacks. Give me those results any day against Central. Do we really want it to work against everything again?


Let me vomit a little myself so I can show you why you can't take these stats at face value.


ZEB has a 50% TFL rate on Trips Counter.

And a 50% big play rate.

Originally posted by Rob.
I can live with counters being great against a team that is blitzing from the wrong side or the HB makes a guy or two miss. But these plays are a lot like the QB rollouts from back in the day. They thrive on poor defender logic and allow the ball carrier to go untouched until it is way too late.

Everything takes advantage of poor logic in this game. Teams spam the same passing plays every single time and you can know 100% sure they are coming and you can't stop it. You can slow it down, but poor defender logic keeps you from stopping it. You guys are going to fuck around and convince people thats its overpowered and we are going to be right back where we were 2 seasons ago where everyone has a SS QB and 4 SS WRs spamming the same plays over and over again.

Originally posted by Rob.
And a 50% big play rate.

That one was right over your head.

Originally posted by Parab00n
You guys are going to fuck around and convince people thats its overpowered and we are going to be right back where we were 2 seasons ago where everyone has a SS QB and 4 SS WRs spamming the same plays over and over again.

If they fix blitzer pathing it will just make balanced teams more powerful. If you know for sure which side the team is running, you should be able to blitz to that side and at least get a defender a shot at the ball carrier, but you are making yourself worse against the pass and worse against runs to the opposite side. Counters will still dominate plays like Over Will Blitz, which is a good thing.

Originally posted by Rob.
If they fix blitzer pathing it will just make balanced teams more powerful. If you know for sure which side the team is running, you should be able to blitz to that side and at least get a defender a shot at the ball carrier, but you are making yourself worse against the pass and worse against runs to the opposite side. Counters will still dominate plays like Over Will Blitz, which is a good thing.



This isn't a vacuum, you change that blitz logic and what else does it effect?

Originally posted by Parab00n
This isn't a vacuum, you change that blitz logic and what else does it effect?



Just depends how specific they plan on getting with it. They could make it specific to counters.

It wouldn't be the first time they made adjustments to blitzing logic in regards to counters.

Originally posted by Corndog
Increased the resistance to counter fakes of zone and blitzes even further.
-October 2014

DD has run trips counter 122 times -- by far your most commonly used outside rush play

the 6 outside run plays you've run most frequently this season....all counters.

of your 524 outside runs; 407 are counters (78%).

trips counter strong: 122 times / 10.2 ypc
wi hb counter strong: 67 / 7.1 ypc
si hb counter sweep weak: 61 / 8.1 ypc
BI hb counter left: 39 / 8.7ypc
sb big counter right: 37 / 7.2ypc
sb big hb counter left: 30 / 10.8ypc
si hb counter sweep strong: 18 / 9.8
wi hb counter sweep weak: 17 / 6.8 ypc
DI hb counter weak: 16 / 6.1 ypc

all told: 407 counters for 3533.5 yards = 8.68 yards per carry
82.7% of your outside rushing yards have come from counters.

I don't think you are particularly objective here. DD calls a counter run ~16.5% of the time. Counters account for 24% of DD's offensive yards this season. It seems more like you're protecting your offense.

Originally posted by Rob.
I can live with counters being great against a team that is blitzing from the wrong side or the HB makes a guy or two miss. But these plays are a lot like the QB rollouts from back in the day. They thrive on poor defender logic and allow the ball carrier to go untouched until it is way too late.

This is 100% the problem. Most of GLB2 offensive strategy, especially the abusive stuff like outside running and long passing, are based on defenders being complete morons, a big awareness buff on both offense and defense would help diversify things. Right now teams are going all in on these strategies and forcing defenses to go all in to stop them, it's really boring for the teams that can actually pull it off, and frustrating for the teams that have to go against them.

Originally posted by TxSteve
DD has run trips counter 122 times -- by far your most commonly used outside rush play

the 6 outside run plays you've run most frequently this season....all counters.

of your 524 outside runs; 407 are counters (78%).

trips counter strong: 122 times / 10.2 ypc
wi hb counter strong: 67 / 7.1 ypc
si hb counter sweep weak: 61 / 8.1 ypc
BI hb counter left: 39 / 8.7ypc
sb big counter right: 37 / 7.2ypc
sb big hb counter left: 30 / 10.8ypc
si hb counter sweep strong: 18 / 9.8
wi hb counter sweep weak: 17 / 6.8 ypc
DI hb counter weak: 16 / 6.1 ypc

all told: 407 counters for 3533.5 yards = 8.68 yards per carry
82.7% of your outside rushing yards have come from counters.

I don't think you are particularly objective here. DD calls a counter run ~16.5% of the time. Counters account for 24% of DD's offensive yards this season. It seems more like you're protecting your offense.




I also call passing plays 57% of the time but I've asked that they be toned down.

Do you guys seriously just think you can look at statistics on the surface and get at true reading on something?

Originally posted by Rob.
Just depends how specific they plan on getting with it. They could make it specific to counters.

It wouldn't be the first time they made adjustments to blitzing logic in regards to counters.

Again, not a vacuum. Changing the blitz logic to make blitzes better against counters changes the entire game.

Originally posted by Fumblerooski
This is 100% the problem. Most of GLB2 offensive strategy, especially the abusive stuff like outside running and long passing, are based on defenders being complete morons, a big awareness buff on both offense and defense would help diversify things. Right now teams are going all in on these strategies and forcing defenses to go all in to stop them, it's really boring for the teams that can actually pull it off, and frustrating for the teams that have to go against them.

We need more defensive play diversity. Such as having unbalanced zones. Lurk's, Robber's with Cover 1 over the top are nice plays, but it's an even balance with man outside and zone inside. Shifting zones to the right side, may look weird, but if the current meta does normal passes and runs only to the right then a play needs to be put into place to let us shift zones over.

Just a quick example:
http://i.imgur.com/iA56PWO.jpg

Originally posted by Parab00n
Again, not a vacuum. Changing the blitz logic to make blitzes better against counters changes the entire game.


Ok, I'll bite. How does making blitzers actually go past the LOS before doing a blitz awareness check change the game?

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
Ok, I'll bite. How does making blitzers actually go past the LOS before doing a blitz awareness check change the game?

Do you really want your defenders running to the LOS before they can pass a Blitz Awareness check? How silly is it going to look to blitz your FS/SS and have them run past the RB because it's hard coded that they go to the LOS?


Aside from that, Blitzing has to have a downside. It can't be the best against Inside Runs, Outside Runs, and Passing.