Warrior General Games

Originally posted by TxSteve
Hey - I'd be all for adding some kind of off day tier tournament toward the end of each season. seems like that would solve everyone's problem.

Leave the ladder as is.
leave leagues as they are
add a tier championship tournament at the end of each season (with 8 or 16 teams -- whatever makes sense)


This is a good solution, not without its problems of course. People will complain that a single loss will ruin your chances of winning a ladder trophy, whereas currently a #1-5 ladder trophy represents winning consistency. I vote that you have the tournament, but still award ladder trophies as well, so people can argue they are the best because they won the league tourney, and others because they were the most consistent ladder team. It'll open more discussions at least, which is something this game's dead forums desperately need.

This has probably been proposed and rejected, but I think it would be cool to have:

1) League
2) Ladder
3) A tier-wide cup style tourney similar to what you see for soccer leagues or even march madness. A simple one and done tourney where all non-cpu teams in the tier are entered, so you end up with a single champion at the end of the season.

This would be a huge change (and probably not very realistic) as it would likely add another game day.

I think trying to crown a ladder champ by running a tourney at the end of the season (or some other form of combining a tourney with the ladder) is a bad idea and defeats the whole point of an ELO based ladder.

Originally posted by mrm708

It's about which teams have played the best over the course of their teams entire history.


This is wrong. 99% online games have a ladder to see who has the best anything. It's all about bragging rights. this is an online game, not a football sim. We have global rankings right now, so yes, the system is mis-represented and the trophies make no sense.

in this thread: guy who's never won a trophy - starts a movement to abolish trophies?

Originally posted by Mezirah
This is wrong. 99% online games have a ladder to see who has the best anything. It's all about bragging rights. this is an online game, not a football sim. We have global rankings right now, so yes, the system is mis-represented and the trophies make no sense.

Only thing making no sense is this post.

Originally posted by TxSteve
in this thread: guy who's never won a trophy - starts a movement to abolish trophies?

No, I started a movement to justify the trophies...

I never even brought up trophies Steve. Galactic did.

mrm708, maybe you don't online game as much as I do, but ladder ranks are for seeing who's the best. I suggest adding it to this game. Not have a system to try and have competitive matches as Corndog stated.

Thanks for participating in my suggestion though. You've contributed valid points up until you showed your gamer ignorance. Your probably just a football guy who is a fanboy of Warrior General. I get it. No need to say I'm not making sense if you don't understand.

Originally posted by Mezirah
I never even brought up trophies Steve. Galactic did.

mrm708, maybe you don't online game as much as I do, but ladder ranks are for seeing who's the best. I suggest adding it to this game. Not have a system to try and have competitive matches as Corndog stated.

Thanks for participating in my suggestion though. You've contributed valid points up until you showed your gamer ignorance. Your probably just a football guy who is a fanboy of Warrior General. I get it. No need to say I'm not making sense if you don't understand.

I've played many online games, including many that have ladders. And they operate almost exactly like this ladder. My argument is that this ladder system DOES do a good job of eventually sorting teams into a reasonable ranking, whether you are talking within a single tier or across all tiers.

Your previous post was just so poorly written it literally made no sense to me. No clue what you were trying to say with it.

Poorly written? I suppose when I say, the 'best anything' that is confusing. I meant the best farm in farmville, the best planet in a space RTS. The best pokemon. etc. Why should football teams be different? Playing 5 seasons until you can actually fight and challenge your piers for the top position is not serving to the playerbase. Even if, a few of you guys in forums, think it is. Talking to other players it is not. People want to play evenly leveled teams in immediate vicinity of their place in the ladder.

When you get to the top or bottom of the tier rankings, that diminishes.

Yes, that makes a lot more sense. I just feel that the old system (only played teams within the same tier except for rare occasions) was extremely monotonous for those same exact teams (the very top and very bottom of each tier). And I feel like both systems will 99% of the time result in the best team ending up at #1. If your argument is that its more fun to play the same few teams within your tier repeatedly, then that is a valid argument that should be open to discussion. I think I disagree but thats a debate worth having (it kind of already happened, which resulted in the change to the current system).

But it sounds like you, and others, are arguing that the new system does a much worse job of actually determining the rankings within any given tier, and that is what I am strongly disagreeing with. If Team A is #5 in their tier, they might feel like they are better than the #4 team (Team B). Team A might also feel had they had their chance to face Team B directly they would win and be #4 (their rightful place!). Chances are, in my opinion, that Team B is the better team. It feels crappy to be ranked behind teams you havent played recently and think you can beat, but if they are ahead of you they are most likely the better team.

The Minnesota Stunners are #1 in journeyman and have yet to play a journeyman team in a ladder match. I understand this is not a broken mechanic, however I think it should be changed. Not much more else to explain the ladder rant #645 than that. Enjoy the trophy Steve.

Originally posted by Mezirah
The Minnesota Stunners are #1 in journeyman and have yet to play a journeyman team in a ladder match. I understand this is not a broken mechanic, however I think it should be changed. Not much more else to explain the ladder rant #645 than that. Enjoy the trophy Steve.

They have played against a journeyman team literally every single league game, though.

And they have beat them all.

Handedly.

Originally posted by Corndog
I'd guess Stobie with his super scripts could comment on the average scores of ladder games, and I'd guess there will be pretty good parity.

Sorry didn't quite login this weekend.

So here is what I have....

2304 games played where a CPU team has not been involved.

Scores you see are home team first and visitor second and followed by a descriptor. Mind you this is average scores. Cannot confirm this but I believe Home is the higher ranked team and Away is lesser ranked team.

22.92 to 16.52 in 1400 games across all Ladder Games
13.84 to 9.56 in 432 games in Rookie only
21.13 to 14.67 in 256 games in Sophomore only
23.48 to 15.93 in 140 games in Seasoned only
28.48 to 20.83 in 98 games in Seasoned versus Journeyman
27.25 to 19.75 in 4 games in Seasoned versus Professional
16.67 to 23.72 in 18 games in Seasoned versus Veteran
34.10 to 25.22 in 50 games in Journeyman only
32.54 to 24.02 in 68 games in Journeyman versus Professional
30.26 to 23.07 in 46 games in Journeyman versus Veteran
27.71 to 25.43 in 28 games in Professional only
28.25 to 23.15 in 112 games in Professional versus Veteran
33.54 to 21.68 in 148 games in Veteran only

Wow...thanks for the stats.

Those are even closer margins than I was expecting. Was expecting like a 14-16 point margin...not 6.

Originally posted by Corndog
Wow...thanks for the stats.

Those are even closer margins than I was expecting. Was expecting like a 14-16 point margin...not 6.

Probably with statistics like this are the context they are needed.

For instance look at the Seasoned versus Veteran. 18 games where a team played 3 levels above. I dived into these 18 games as I didn't believe that could happen but indeed it did and mainly against the 3 worst Vet teams which might explain the reverse home vs away scores.

Am I correct in ladder pairing the home team is the higher ranked team? If so that explains why away team has higher point totals than home in this instance.

What I could do is only focus on the +1/2/3 scenarios and see what that tier did score wise. But it would lead me to believe that majority of the time the lesser tier team is the lesser ranked team as well.