Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Galithor
I've gone to the opinion that you should try for 70+ footwork on a secondary player.

That's obvious. But excessive for the situation and still doesn't solve any of the problems at hand when it comes to coverage.

Originally posted by bhall43
That's obvious. But excessive for the situation and still doesn't solve any of the problems at hand when it comes to coverage.

I know. I'm just not quite ready to concede that the issue can't be corrected or at least somewhat contained with builds. We've played teams that can turn and run with Addai and Fry just fine most of the time. Then there's other teams where at least one of the CBs is clearly overmatched.

The game right now is dealing with extreme build WRs torching generally more balanced built CBs. Especially with the season 2 teams, where nobody built any CB S* players, but there's definitely a small handful of elite S* pass catchers tearing everyone up.

Sorry but I don't look at it as a balanced build at all having to shoot for 70+ footwork/cov tech/man awareness/quickness before even talking about skills like sprinting/deflection/intercept/balance.

Originally posted by bhall43
Sorry but I don't look at it as a balanced build at all having to shoot for 70+ footwork/cov tech/man awareness/quickness before even talking about skills like sprinting/deflection/intercept/balance.

agreeing with Bhall here - the recent sim changes made footwork a core skill that has to be at the level of coverage technique ... which one might assume would include things like 'when to stop backpedalling'

for a seasoned player .. basically just over halfway to final skills right? - having to be near cap on 5 skills to be able to cover seems excessive and God forbid your league has a bunch of running teams and you have to build to handle those too

Originally posted by bhall43
Sorry but I don't look at it as a balanced build at all having to shoot for 70+ footwork/cov tech/man awareness/quickness before even talking about skills like sprinting/deflection/intercept/balance.

Ya. There is no way a CB can build everything they need for basic coverage vs a WR who has fewer skills they need to build up to beat them.

Originally posted by Rom_Fox
agreeing with Bhall here - the recent sim changes made footwork a core skill that has to be at the level of coverage technique ... which one might assume would include things like 'when to stop backpedalling'

for a seasoned player .. basically just over halfway to final skills right? - having to be near cap on 5 skills to be able to cover seems excessive and God forbid your league has a bunch of running teams and you have to build to handle those too



Considerably further than halfway. The SP cost goes up over time. I don't deny the difficult choices that must be made by secondary players. I'm not going to apologize for having maGz build his TE to punish LBs and SSs trying to cover him with run stopping builds either.

If the prevailing thought is adding high footwork to a coverage build isn't doable, I'd again point out that there's a Special Ability called "Chase Down" that's tailor built to assist with the inability to keep up with very mobile WRs. It has a chance to fire every tick you're more than 4 yards away from your target. That means it'll fire often if you've got one of those CBs or Safeties getting regularly torched by Addai on the flag routes.

I wonder how many CBs out there in Seasoned just Golded On an Island or 3rd Down Stopper when they should've been using that AP to Silver Chase Down instead?

Originally posted by Galithor
Considerably further than halfway. The SP cost goes up over time. I don't deny the difficult choices that must be made by secondary players. I'm not going to apologize for having maGz build his TE to punish LBs and SSs trying to cover him with run stopping builds either.

If the prevailing thought is adding high footwork to a coverage build isn't doable, I'd again point out that there's a Special Ability called "Chase Down" that's tailor built to assist with the inability to keep up with very mobile WRs. It has a chance to fire every tick you're more than 4 yards away from your target. That means it'll fire often if you've got one of those CBs or Safeties getting regularly torched by Addai on the flag routes.

I wonder how many CBs out there in Seasoned just Golded On an Island or 3rd Down Stopper when they should've been using that AP to Silver Chase Down instead?

It's not a question of how CB's built, and it would be massively unbalanced if CB's had to take a specific SA just to play coverage.

CB's at a minimum have to have Man or Zone Awareness, Coverage Technique, Footwork, Deflecting or Intercepting, Quickness, Sprinting, and Conditioning just to perform their base duties.

WR's only need Receiving Hands, Quickness, Sprinting, and Conditioning to beat them on outs and fly patterns.

That's a massive mismatch in necessary skills before we even get into how to build. Then you add in the very broken backpedal turns, and without dev intervention, there will be nothing but speed WR's racing past CB's who simply have too many skills they have to build to ever hope to cover them.

Originally posted by Galithor
Considerably further than halfway. The SP cost goes up over time. I don't deny the difficult choices that must be made by secondary players. I'm not going to apologize for having maGz build his TE to punish LBs and SSs trying to cover him with run stopping builds either.

If the prevailing thought is adding high footwork to a coverage build isn't doable, I'd again point out that there's a Special Ability called "Chase Down" that's tailor built to assist with the inability to keep up with very mobile WRs. It has a chance to fire every tick you're more than 4 yards away from your target. That means it'll fire often if you've got one of those CBs or Safeties getting regularly torched by Addai on the flag routes.

I wonder how many CBs out there in Seasoned just Golded On an Island or 3rd Down Stopper when they should've been using that AP to Silver Chase Down instead?

Again you are talking ridiculously excessive measures to cover an obviously bugged route. And we aren't even at the point in which Head Fake is huge thing in everyones builds.

It is this obviously broken coverage that makes it hard for me, even as an OC, to start talking about lowering the base values needed in terms of keeping receivers upright after a catch. I had sort of hoped this would have slowly gone away but it still seems to largely be a part of the game even for guys with 60+ balance. But with where coverage is currently at that would just be severely game breakingly unstoppable.

Originally posted by Xavori
It's not a question of how CB's built, and it would be massively unbalanced if CB's had to take a specific SA just to play coverage.

CB's at a minimum have to have Man or Zone Awareness, Coverage Technique, Footwork, Deflecting or Intercepting, Quickness, Sprinting, and Conditioning just to perform their base duties.

WR's only need Receiving Hands, Quickness, Sprinting, and Conditioning to beat them on outs and fly patterns.

That's a massive mismatch in necessary skills before we even get into how to build. Then you add in the very broken backpedal turns, and without dev intervention, there will be nothing but speed WR's racing past CB's who simply have too many skills they have to build to ever hope to cover them.

How much deflection do you really need to cover that non-CiT, Receiving Grip investment WR you're talking about? How many catches is he even going to get undefended with out the Rec Awareness, Consistency, etc?

White Lightning doesn't exactly have a catch rate north of 50%. He's not so unstoppable that Rusty's Ruins have marched to the top of the ladder higher than they have ever been than they did before without him. And CBs defending him are only going to catch up in speed and agility over the next 1.2 seasons worth of development they've got left.


Also, I don't buy the complaining about having to take an SA to cover a weakness in your build. You either invest appropriately in the physical skills to cover a speedy reciever, or you get chase down to cover your ass. It's not any different than a QB needing OTR and Quick Read to save their-own ass from pressure. Or a halfback taking a carrying grip skill to protect against fumble forcing LBs.

Originally posted by bhall43
It is this obviously broken coverage that makes it hard for me, even as an OC, to start talking about lowering the base values needed in terms of keeping receivers upright after a catch. I had sort of hoped this would have slowly gone away but it still seems to largely be a part of the game even for guys with 60+ balance. But with where coverage is currently at that would just be severely game breakingly unstoppable.

I don't think you ever eliminate drops or falling down. There's always going to be throws to the outer edge of the receivers skill capabilities that they can't quite catch, or quite stay on their feet after catching.

Originally posted by Galithor
I don't think you ever eliminate drops or falling down. There's always going to be throws to the outer edge of the receivers skill capabilities that they can't quite catch, or quite stay on their feet after catching.

I am not talking about deep corner throws. I am talking about the short throws that are made. Guys fall down way too much. Which is something a guy can live with through the early stages but the late stages of the game guys are just falling for really entirely no reason. Especially when wide open.

Galithor, even if we break it down to it's most basic, it's still 3 skills for the CB (Man/Zone Awareness, Coverage Technique, and Footwork) versus one for the WR (Receiving Hands).

WR wins because they now have lots more points to throw at speed than the CB does.

As far as White Lightning is concerned. He was unstoppable before Corndog fixed footwork on the streak routes themselves. The only thing stopping him was himself and his low receiving skills.