Warrior General Games

And arguing about an easy sim is just :facepalm

Originally posted by NorDoor
And arguing about an easy sim is just :facepalm

Easy for who? i see a bunch of struggling teams in WL.

Originally posted by ghuffman
Easy for who? i see a bunch of struggling teams in WL.

Those that are trying to diminish a World League Championship by crying that"We played in much tougher sims seasons past than Asau did to win gold.Oh,and we had to walk up hill both ways to get to our pc just to game plan"

Originally posted by NorDoor
Those that are trying to diminish a World League Championship by crying that"We played in much tougher sims seasons past than Asau did to win gold.Oh,and we had to walk up hill both ways to get to our pc just to game plan"

The sim was very playable last season, and Asau had to beat quality teams to win it.


I think what folks see is that there is a lot more parity than there used to be, so there is a bit more of an RNG component to getting the ring.


But that's not because there are no longer freakish excessions like Valhalla that are so good they crush the sim....it's because now there generally 5-6 teams that are ALL at that high level of play. And only one can win it.

WL (for the playoffs) is as tough or tougher than it's ever been, imo. Regular season is a little less intense, as the vets are much more relaxed and the chaff at the bottom is more resigned than ever.

There always seems to be a mosh pit of 6 teams fighting for 3 slots in the middle, those teams may be going full tilt in the regular season.

whew... thought you were taking a shot at me for a sec at the beginning bugafter that Dong game

Originally posted by JT_HOOD
JD also makes a point about WL being easier then before. I agree that it is but come playoffs it's still the same. Everyone puts on their big boy pants for a couple of weeks and goes to work.
Nope, it blows compared to the old days. That's an inevitable consequence of a shrinking player base along with the people who were really good at the game not caring much anymore.

Originally posted by jdbolick

Nope, it blows compared to the old days. That's an inevitable consequence of a shrinking player base along with the people who were really good at the game not caring much anymore.

oh stop it. it's harder to win now then before for the top teams. 10+ seasons ago it was 4-5 teams that could win it all. Now just about all playoff teams can. More teams have figured things out.

Not these crazy player build discrepancies like it was before.

Part of the problem is an absence of superteams, like tautology mentioned. Valhalla or Halifax or Chocolate Blaze crushing things makes the season feel more memorable and creates an inherent challenge of trying to raise your game to match that level. Meanwhile shackling the DPC and expanding the playbook has devalued things as well because you don't see as much unique defensive game-planning anymore. So now it basically comes down to "did that DC really leave _____ uncovered?" and "ugh, _____ caught another pass in double coverage." Or I guess starting last season the latter would change to "ugh, yet another play where the man coverage got catch faked and the deep zone help got pump faked - touchdown."

The WL doesn't feel "excellent" anymore. It's still awesome in the sense that it provides a challenge just to survive, but the old days were more about "I wonder if my crazy gameplan can help us pull off the upset" whereas now I'm not sure there really are upsets in the playoffs anymore. I'm not suggesting that game-planning and dots don't matter, just that they don't matter as much as they used to.

Originally posted by ghuffman
oh stop it. it's harder to win now then before for the top teams. 10+ seasons ago it was 4-5 teams that could win it all. Now just about all playoff teams can. More teams have figured things out. Not these crazy player build discrepancies like it was before.
More RNG in the playoffs, which is frustrating. But it's also easier to make the playoffs than ever.

edit:
And to be clear, I don't think the current state of parity is due to lesser teams raising their level of performance. I think the top teams that came back to the pack, which is why I was able to get here and go 11-5 two straight seasons with my dots and a bunch that other WL teams didn't want.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Part of the problem is an absence of superteams, like tautology mentioned. Valhalla or Halifax or Chocolate Blaze crushing things makes the season feel more memorable and creates an inherent challenge of trying to raise your game to match that level. Meanwhile shackling the DPC and expanding the playbook has devalued things as well because you don't see as much unique defensive game-planning anymore. So now it basically comes down to "did that DC really leave _____ uncovered?" and "ugh, _____ caught another pass in double coverage." Or I guess starting last season the latter would change to "ugh, yet another play where the man coverage got catch faked and the deep zone help got pump faked - touchdown."

The WL doesn't feel "excellent" anymore. It's still awesome in the sense that it provides a challenge just to survive, but the old days were more about "I wonder if my crazy gameplan can help us pull off the upset" whereas now I'm not sure there really are upsets in the playoffs anymore. I'm not suggesting that game-planning and dots don't matter, just that they don't matter as much as they used to.

sort of agree, but some of those teams it didn't matter what the game planning was they had such an advantage with builds.

like some of those teams having players with 130 in catching and catching in quadruple coverage all the time though they couldn't get separation..stupid.

i would say that is where networks kind of hurt things for you. No more super teams. I am sure if, for example, DS focused on 2 teams instead of 8 they would probably produce some super teams that would make you happy

Maybe, but probably not because you guys still don't give enough of a shit when it comes to coordinating and it's not possible to gameplan defensively to the extent that we used to.

Originally posted by jdbolick
poop

dont be taking my shit

Originally posted by jdbolick
Part of the problem is an absence of superteams, like tautology mentioned. Valhalla or Halifax or Chocolate Blaze crushing things makes the season feel more memorable and creates an inherent challenge of trying to raise your game to match that level. Meanwhile shackling the DPC and expanding the playbook has devalued things as well because you don't see as much unique defensive game-planning anymore. So now it basically comes down to "did that DC really leave _____ uncovered?" and "ugh, _____ caught another pass in double coverage." Or I guess starting last season the latter would change to "ugh, yet another play where the man coverage got catch faked and the deep zone help got pump faked - touchdown."

The WL doesn't feel "excellent" anymore. It's still awesome in the sense that it provides a challenge just to survive, but the old days were more about "I wonder if my crazy gameplan can help us pull off the upset" whereas now I'm not sure there really are upsets in the playoffs anymore. I'm not suggesting that game-planning and dots don't matter, just that they don't matter as much as they used to.


I don't know....

The "superteams" definitely added an aura of "over-the-topness" to the game, but they were based largely on exploiting ways to break the sim. Hali could PM you that they were going to run the HB screen before the game, you could stack 7 defenders on that side of the field to stop it, and it just didn't matter. Yorke to O-Brien was nigh-unstoppable, regardless of defense.

Probably the last season where we saw that sort of inevitability was season 18, where the sim had a silly hole that HHWC was set up perfectly to exploit, and their DBs generally caught more balls than the opposing WRs as a result,

Those were fun, though probably more fun to watch for the "masses" than for the folks who understood exactly what was going on, but still worthy of admiration for the discipline and dedication and attention to detail it took to really maximize the strategies in use.

The wide open DPC did add some tension to the game, but I thought it was a little too destructive to game play...you basically had to eliminate entire formations from your playbook, and really it left you with about 20% of the playbook as viable. I do miss the added tension at times though.

On the other hand, there is an element of truth in the "ugh, another catch fake TD" assessment. But really isn't that just a slightly less extreme version of what the "super teams" were doing? Didn't you ever say "ugh, O-brien just just caught another flag route," or "ugh, another HB screen and 8 missed tackles to Jedi Knight?"

I think the issue is that everything is a little less novel to the jaded folks who have seen it all a hundred times, and of course there are 8 teams who all have a dangerous bag of tricks backed up by solid dots and high quality coordination, instead of just the two or three that there used to be.

As a result, whereas Valhalla could have played the season 15 playoffs 10 times and won 9 of them, Asau would probably only win the season 29 playoffs 3 times out of ten, just because the field was so much deeper.

All things considered, I still think it's tougher to win the ring now than ever, for all those reasons...but maybe just a little less special because it takes more luck? But maybe that ought to be more special, because it's actually harder?

Originally posted by tautology



Probably the last season where we saw that sort of inevitability was season 19, where the sim had a silly hole that HHWC was set up perfectly to exploit, and their DBs generally caught more balls than the opposing WRs as a result,


i really could not agree more with taut. the first legitimate season of the WL was season 20, and thus the first legitimate win for a moon league team.

i'll go a step further and say the game was broken starting with season 23, making seasons 20-22 the only WL seasons that have ever mattered.

Originally posted by The Second Coming of Rusty Trombone
i really could not agree more with taut. the first legitimate season of the WL was season 20, and thus the first legitimate win for a moon league team.

i'll go a step further and say the game was broken starting with season 23, making seasons 20-22 the only WL seasons that have ever mattered.

Season 21 was a little bogus too though, amirite?

edit: actually I meant season 18 as the last exploit season, not 19. 19 was a much more balanced sim than 18.