Warrior General Games

Lots of tl;dr but this thread delivers in a way

Originally posted by RaphaneKnight
A lot of people think chiwanna is your multi though Probably not but I'm thinking you know him in real life or possibly a family member. I remember you clearly saying you do everything for Pimps and this was the first time you mention this so I'm just not going to buy it, AGAIN. Just like I don't buy people saying they don't take this seriously or just didn't have the time etc etc blah blah. We already discussed this already but I'm just going to judge it on how I see it and the fact is you tried but just weren't good enough until S20. That's only one good season and I don't know how you can spin that around, especially when you were one of the few teams that had luxury of building all the players plus boost/CE. You were in an opposite situation in WL where you had build disadvantage. You take that into consideration, you actually did worse in PW in your first 3 seasons in gold.

Hmmm so a team struggles to make the playoffs and never really does much other than one fluke season in a passing sim. Then they roll off a season like the Pimps had last season. Yeah it was just because everything clicked. And all their hard work for 5 seasons start paying off...........LOL. Or is it more likely that something changed........Just so happens to be the same time my higher level team gave up and started over, And my activity in the forums prior to that was non-existent. So I would say there is pretty good "evidence" as to what happened......

Originally posted by RaphaneKnight
The point was that you didn't have a say in here because you are not a WL guy. Besides you are getting ahead of yourself with one good season: in a bigger picture can't call that success. As for S21, sorry you'll always be overshadowed by Gerr with 85 Bears. I try to give you some credit but you confirmed on your own it was you who wanted to join and then you pretty much put the nail in the coffin when you admitted you couldn't figure out Gerr's lolTIA no/no team. Can't have it both way now that the argument is different.


I don't have a say because I am not a WL league guy? Does that mean you are a WL guy? If not you don't have a say either.......
The 85 bears are Gerr's team. No question. Doesn't mean I didn't have a lot to do with their success. It is pretty simple concept that I made the Bears better. And the same would have been said if Gerr had joined the Pimps and taken over the defense. He would have made them better. With a limited amount of time. A team can be run more efficiently with two good Coor's than one.
I didn't try to figure out TIA. I just more or less laughed about it with Gerr. It just didn't make a whole lot of sense why a no/no team with no scouting or game planning was having that kind of success in the tourneys.

I am getting ahead of myself with one good season? Since you like to think good seasons are tied to winning things then you might need to look in the mirror. Seems to me you only had one good season too (since you didn't do anything for Maine last season). All the other seasons you were just Jkids and FGC playoff punching bag. You really got successful when his care meter and effort went way down..........

Originally posted by RaphaneKnight
Can a WL guy come down here with his WL knowledge and have immediate success? Never seen one and probably never will. They have to take your routes and actually become a PW guy and go through 7-8 seasons of trials and errors to even have a chance.
If they were given a team of good/elite builds. They would be in hunt by the second season at the very minimum and maybe even get it turned around fast enough in the first season to be competitive in the playoffs if they got there.

Multiple coordinator teams are only better because each person spending 20 minutes is a lot better than one person spending 20 minutes... end of story.

Originally posted by RaphaneKnight

By the way, I actually like WL and is why I decided to build a player for sigmike but like you said fact is fact. WL will always remain a build oriented league where the guy with the biggest flex muscle and cookie cutter builds prevail over superior game planning. I'm not saying builds don't have any affect in PW but it's quite the opposite of WL, that also won't change.


I disagree. I think PW Gold is just as much build oriented as the WL at least looking at the top teams. Once you get past the basics on game planning (i.e. covering outside runs early, tagging running QB's, situational double coverage etc......) then it comes down to builds and RNG. Just looking at the final four teams in the playoffs. If a team had a far superior game plan that made that much difference then the scores would not be 1-2 score games. It comes down to players making a few plays here and there that make the difference and that is based on builds and winning rolls.

I mean according to you everyone uses your defensive scheme that you invented. So why are they not as successful running that defense??? hmmm only leaves builds and/or tactics......

Plus the difference in the points at low levels have far great impact than they do at the higher levels. Meaning the difference between 80 speed and 75 speed is greater than the difference between 135 and 130 speed. And that especially applies to lower attributes where 25 vs 20 has a greater impact then 60 vs 55

But it is just an opinion with no right or wrong answer.

Last post I agree with 100%, a few SA or points in a build x 55 is HUGE.

That said, fun fact, this was not Gerrs 1st Gold league championship appearence, can anyone name his first and with what team?

wasn't he your DC for a few seasons?

Originally posted by Nif
wasn't he your DC for a few seasons?

Yep season 13. Just for the championship game season 13. I got us there and wanted to do extra work on the offense. For his services I ran his offense and helped get Chicago in Gold in season 14

Season 14, I asked Thunder to run my defense in the championship game.

ahhh good times... good times

careful puttin that all out there tho... you might just be a pig. or maybe the trough?

sure weren't any dopey WL owners in those finals either way

more chest beating?

Originally posted by Bevo05

The 85 bears are Gerr's team. No question. Doesn't mean I didn't have a lot to do with their success. It is pretty simple concept that I made the Bears better. And the same would have been said if Gerr had joined the Pimps and taken over the defense. He would have made them better. With a limited amount of time. A team can be run more efficiently with two good Coor's than one.
I didn't try to figure out TIA. I just more or less laughed about it with Gerr. It just didn't make a whole lot of sense why a no/no team with no scouting or game planning was having that kind of success in the tourneys.

I am getting ahead of myself with one good season? Since you like to think good seasons are tied to winning things then you might need to look in the mirror. Seems to me you only had one good season too (since you didn't do anything for Maine last season). All the other seasons you were just Jkids and FGC playoff punching bag. You really got successful when his care meter and effort went way down..........


Bevo,

Gold/West was anything but spectacular competition last season. There were a few teams with their try face on but quite a few teams on cruise control taking a break to recharge the batteries, not to mention teams that were CPU or had no business in Gold to begin with. So you being an epic OC that made all the difference in the world to Gerr's team.. well I don't buy into that. Gerr could have got there on his own last season IMO. Not taking anything away from you Gerr cause we have played vs each other many times and my opinion is based on experience.

Also Bevo to call out RK and try to discredit his abilities in this game is ReDonkulous. Bottom line he has hardware/scoreboard and you don't. With a quick check over S20 it looks like RK was 4>0 vs UT Pimps. To say he's JKids playoff punching bag is a douchbag thing to say tbh.

There are a few Agents/Owners that continually rise to the top every season and with that being said there are even fewer at the very top. Any given season in the past it has never been a surprise that RK is at the top tier in this game.

Hmm cant wait for S22, I hope I can stay motivated.

Bevo05, I don't disagree the math you use in the post. 125 to 130 is definitely a smaller deal than 75-80. My thoughts are the top teams are probably not that much different in their point differential. Their just isn't enough time for the builds to be that much different in total build points.

As I've said in other posts, I have a really good record when going up against teams that have out leveled my teams. I can't remember all of the games but I'm pretty sure it's in the double digits. Especially since more teams boosted early in the past. I can only remember losing 1 game (in Gold) to a team that out leveled one of my teams. Yet, I've lost 2 games where my team out leveled the opponent.

We can use my test team in Season 15 as an example too. 45+ players were created on Day 2 and 3. By the end of the season, even though my builds weren't as good because of the lost time... that test team was tough. Even beat Tombstone in our test scrimmage for the S15 championship game. The AI was the same AI I used in S13 with the Crabs besides a few changes to singleback Ds. I barely touched the O AI until I tried to recreate Short Bus's passing attack for the test scrimmage. That test probably had a better chance of beating Short Bus because the builds matched the sim better then Tombstone's run first builds. And, if you go back to the Short Bus Tombstone championship game - the singleback pitch weak killed us and was one of the main reasons we lost the game. Which was more of an AI issue than a build advantage. We spent most of the day trying to figure out how to slow down Short Bus's passing attack and left a glaring hole in our defense. (So glaring, that I remember DirtyMike posting after the game stating the pitch weak was open "all day".. and he was right )

I've also helped Silver teams in the past that had really really bad builds. Anyone remember Footie Panda? Horrible builds, but we only got beat by Wood Village 14-0 in the playoffs. I DC'd for the S14 Surly Goats - this was before Gruppo and I really put much time into the team and watched the agents builds closely.. we beat a very good Chicago Mobster team in the finals. We were surprised we won that game with some of the stinker builds on that team. Another example was in a Cap 14 League where Dony and I got beat 13-7 by a 55 man SSB team (Alantis Eclipse).. they had a 30 point dot build advantage on us and were also top notch coordinators.

Builds do play a part though. I don't think it's the point difference that has the most influence, it's IF the builds match the sim. If your team is within 5-10 points on the roster page, you should have no problem competing. Bigger differences can be overcome but there is a point where game planning is almost pointless. But I don't think I've had success in Pee Wee just because of builds, I think it's been both. Really good builds and really good AI. I would still say the AI has been the key though because I've had some teams that didn't match the sim very well and were still really competitive to dominant.

And... don't forget Luck.. plays a part in games too. I also feel like some of my playoff wins in the past were because lady luck was on my side. I have examples on that too.. but I do believe this post is way too long and most of you have quit reading this.. and/or are getting really sleepy.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz......

Originally posted by DirtyMike
Bevo,
Gold/West was anything but spectacular competition last season. There were a few teams with their try face on but quite a few teams on cruise control taking a break to recharge the batteries, not to mention teams that were CPU or had no business in Gold to begin with. So you being an epic OC that made all the difference in the world to Gerr's team.. well I don't buy into that. Gerr could have got there on his own last season IMO. Not taking anything away from you Gerr cause we have played vs each other many times and my opinion is based on experience.

Also Bevo to call out RK and try to discredit his abilities in this game is ReDonkulous. Bottom line he has hardware/scoreboard and you don't. With a quick check over S20 it looks like RK was 4>0 vs UT Pimps. To say he's JKids playoff punching bag is a douchbag thing to say tbh.

There are a few Agents/Owners that continually rise to the top every season and with that being said there are even fewer at the very top. Any given season in the past it has never been a surprise that RK is at the top tier in this game.

Hmm cant wait for S22, I hope I can stay motivated.


Hmm never said that me being an epic OC made all the difference. First never said I was an epic OC. I certainly think I am a good OC (as are quite a few others). But yet that is beside the point. All I said was I had a lot to do with their success last season. Just by the shear fact of taking over the O (and not screwing it up) to let Gerr spend more time on the D and other things. Again it is pretty simple concept that with a limited amount of time (of which Gerr and I both have) we are better off splitting a team. Then both trying to completely run a team seperately. Hence, A team can be run more efficiently with two good Coor's than one

I don't discredit RK at all. He is great and one of the top notch team builders/Coor/player builders etc..... I was just using his comments about other people......."with one good season"......"and never winning anything" and "you tried and just weren't any good until S20" and applied those back to Maine. It seemed to fit and was just having a little fun with it. I personally don't care what happened prior to season 20 as others seem to. And the simple fact is Maine is back to back champions. Best team in PW until someone proves otherwise. And RK had a lot to do with it. That isn't really news to anyone........

douchebag thing to say???.......or just the truth.....No different than saying The Pimps were Maine's finals punching bag in S20 which I have no problem saying......which is also the truth......

Originally posted by mccollums
Bevo05, I don't disagree the math you use in the post. 125 to 130 is definitely a smaller deal than 75-80. My thoughts are the top teams are probably not that much different in their point differential. Their just isn't enough time for the builds to be that much different in total build points.


Agreed they are not that much different in total build points. But where those points are put can make a big difference.

I am no way saying that game planning is not important. In all reality it all goes hand in hand. And examples can probably be made for both. IMO it starts with game planning. If you have a shitty game plan or set up you are screwed no matter what the builds are. You have to a decent game plan just to get started. Then onto to the builds. Then you have to have builds that are decent otherwise even the greatest game plan will not hack it against other good teams. Then when you get to so called elite levels. I think it switches back more to the builds. Being that the game plans more or less off set each other. Then it comes down to the builds and RNG (or as you call it Lady Luck).

I have seen a few post over the last few seasons from some Coor's that had success in previous seasons. And have posted about struggling with the new training etc...... I don't think those guys forgot how to be coor's. So either they haven't adjusted to the sim very well or they are working with lesser builds (what they seem to be implying in this example).

I enjoy the long post keep them coming.....

Originally posted by LordEvil
Last post I agree with 100%, a few SA or points in a build x 55 is HUGE.

That said, fun fact, this was not Gerrs 1st Gold league championship appearence, can anyone name his first and with what team?

This