Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Kira
Originally posted by PackOne

Buckley

Originally posted by Kira

you may not vote for your own players and it is suggested that you vote for players from another team.



Ah... nevermind then.

In games decided by 2-scores or less:

Parr:

20 receptions, 422 yards, 1 TD in 3 games

Per Game: 7 receptions, 141 yards, 21 YPR, 0.33 TD

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Sneeze:

32 receptions, 540 yards, 6 TD's in 4 games

Per Game: 8 receptions, 135 yards, 16.9 YPR, 1.5 TD

All great arguments in the Parr vs Sneeze debate. There are many ways to look at them, and perhaps in the long run they share a title.

Owner of the Bandits here and only sometimes poster. I don't get much of a chance to read and post, usually too busy helping out specific teams and IRL kids, family, jobs, and civic duties. But I have a different viewpoint in what makes an MVP as I have a background in professional sports.

Leagues vote for All Stars. They are the best players at their positions. Usually they are weighed by stats alone, and in football their production at a certain position. You can't compare a K to a DE, just look at the stats and pick the best (2 or 3).

The MVP is a measure of the player that is most valuable to their respective team. Without that player, the team would not have reached the level that they did in terms of record. Usually you would need to compare the player to the rest of the team, and imagine what the team would be like without that player.

My area of expertise is MLB, not NFL. But sports writers use the same criteria when looking for an MVP. Albert Pujols is a great example of an easy choice for MVP. He leads his team in slugging, is good on defense also, and is the biggest threat on a competitive team. Take him away and the Cardinals stink. He makes a HUGE difference. Make the comparison to my Phillies; Ryan Howard was a big force in the regular season, but if you took him away you still had Chase Utley with a big season, and the team would still have been competitive.

So if I were a voter, I would be looking at the difference the player made on their team, and how well the team would have fared without that player. The fact that Sneeze is a #2 and Parr is a #3 has little bearing; how much better did they do then the rest of the team's WRs, and how much better did they do in comparison to the team.

Sneeze: 25 TDs
Rest of Brantford TDs: 50 TDs
So Jimmy Sneeze accounted for 33% of his teams TDs (not counting ST)

Parr: 36 TDs
Rest of Brisbane TDs: 68 TDs
So Dash Parr accounted for 35% of his teams TDs.

Both are probably equally important to their offenses, with only a slight edge to Parr.**************

Both the Brantford and Brisbane Offenses are similar in that they are a pass-first offense. Brantford only ran for 805 yards all season, Brisbane had 2113 rushing yards. So although Sneeze had more opportunity and more importance (more catches and looks) Parr was more important to the Bandits passing game. But the Bandits still had the ground option. Again, both were equally important but I think without Sneeze the Mustangs would have had to rely on more rushing. Slight edge to Sneeze (I am trying to be impartial).*********************

Has anyone else downloaded the Pro Bowl script for greasemonkey?

Jimmy Sneeze 400 points
Chris DeFrance 417 points
Dash Parr 456 points

That is a huge difference in production. Even though DeFrance had 16 drops, the TDs are the largest factor. It's the points on the board that matter. Large swing to Parr.****************

Rusty Nugget had 23 INTs while favoring Sneeze as a target. Bandit QBs only had 14 INTs, looking for the open target. Which is why there are 3 Bandit receivers over 1300 yards, and 12 different players caught passes. On the Mustangs only 2 players over 1300 yards, with 9 players catching passes. Slight edge to Parr**************

I could make more arguments, but if I had a vote I would probably go with Parr. His team has a similar record, but Brisbane beat Brantford and has another win. The last game will mean something in this competition, since Brisbane and Brantford are both fighting for a playoff spot. I may give an edge to the team that makes it if the other does not.

Less catches, more yards, more TDs, bigger impact on his team, his team did better. If I voted I would go for Parr. But since I rarely post, I will let badkarma vote for the team as he is more active in the forums and deserves the respect.

Thanks for reading. Cheers.

^^ good stuff

Great stuff catspaw. Id be interested in seeing the greasemonkey rating removing the three gut games from each team. Even remove the interconference game since the level of opponents aren't equal for each club if you wanted.

The write up, while great, doesn't sway my vote. The glaring factor for me is where the production came. I'm not sure, as the owner, how you can say that Parr was a bigger factor in your season-long passing game when...

78% of his TD production came in games vs. 3 gutted teams.
More than 50% of his yardage came in those same three games.
About 1/3 of his receptions came in those same three games.

That is the part I can't get past to swing my vote to the guy with the better stat line overall. And its nothing against Parr, I have nothing invested here...but in games that mattered, it really seems that Sneeze was the more consistent, strong WR threat.

And I know in the NFL, they'd go by the record and final stats. But they don't have teams of 7-year olds to play against and pad their stats (though the Lions are debatable)

That is why I remove those games for all teams when I try to make my own decisions.

Originally posted by SCACE
Great stuff catspaw. Id be interested in seeing the greasemonkey rating removing the three gut games from each team. Even remove the interconference game since the level of opponents aren't equal for each club if you wanted.

The write up, while great, doesn't sway my vote. The glaring factor for me is where the production came. I'm not sure, as the owner, how you can say that Parr was a bigger factor in your season-long passing game when...

78% of his TD production came in games vs. 3 gutted teams.
More than 50% of his yardage came in those same three games.
About 1/3 of his receptions came in those same three games.

That is the part I can't get past to swing my vote to the guy with the better stat line overall. And its nothing against Parr, I have nothing invested here...but in games that mattered, it really seems that Sneeze was the more consistent, strong WR threat.

I see your point, and agree to an extent.

Although I am looking at overall season, I could make a case that the games Parr played against gutted teams should be thrown out. And then the fact that Sneeze was the obvious target and caused more INTs for his QB should be taken in to account.

I guess my final statement is that a case could be made for both players. Word.

It's a tough choice either way.

I agree 100%. I have my mind made up on Sneezey, but if Parr got more vote he would be a well deserving candidate.

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EDIT-I hadn't re-read the OP since it had "voting rules" added to it, I'm not officially voting for anyone since I don't own a team this is just my opinion on the matter for whatever it's worth...
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I'll admit I'm a little biased since I play on the same team as him but my vote for defensive MVP is Adam Avalanche.

As a DT he leads our defense in:

Tackles: 72 (19 more then the next guy on our team)

Hurries: 65 (15 more then the next guy in the league!)

Sacks: 23 (7 more then the next guy on our team and only 2 of those sacks came against the 3 worse teams in our conference, there are a lot of quality sacks there)

Tackles for Loss: 29 (18 more then the next guy on our team, this stat isn't tracked on the league leaders page so I can't tell where that stands in the entire league but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it's pretty good.)

Forced Fumbles: 3 (Tied for team lead)

All that on a defense that has allowed 1.2 ypg (game) rushing, 0 rushing TDs and also leads the league in pass defense and fewest passing TDs.

There are certainly other good choices, LastDinosaur being one that jumps to mind but Avalanche can dominate games as a DT which is a position you rarely see that kind of impact from.

I'd go with Avalanche as the hardest guy I've had to deal with all season. That's high praise in this league, but what he has been able to do from that position is phenomenal.

Denver is the toughest player we have had to game plan against this season. In my opinion, it has to be between him and Avalanche on the defensive side of the ball.

On offense, I think it either has to be Mat Anderson or "Dan the Man" Marino.

Special teams should be a lock for Adam Vahanian with Sgt. Slaughter coming in second.

I didn't have to play against him, but I'd vote Avalanche also. I have tremendous respect for Denver Last Dinosaur, but it is possible to game plan around him. Not so for Avalanche, and he definitely makes that defense shine.

Originally posted by markm6770
I didn't have to play against him, but I'd vote Avalanche also. I have tremendous respect for Denver Last Dinosaur, but it is possible to game plan around him. Not so for Avalanche, and he definitely makes that defense shine.


I wouldn't say that. Denver threw you guys, and other teams out of their comfort zone and allowed us to easily beat you. Teams are being forced to keep a TE in a good majority of the plays or call alot more 5 WR sets to take him out of the game. Where as Avalanche, you just pray that your OG has a decent build and didnt overlook speed and agility.

Remember, Denver is a LB doing this, not a DE. There is no LB even remotely close to his numbers in this league. He leads this league in not only sacks but tackles and is up there in hurries ( maybe thats because he gets to the QB ).

Originally posted by shutd0wn
Originally posted by markm6770

I didn't have to play against him, but I'd vote Avalanche also. I have tremendous respect for Denver Last Dinosaur, but it is possible to game plan around him. Not so for Avalanche, and he definitely makes that defense shine.


I wouldn't say that. Denver threw you guys, and other teams out of their comfort zone and allowed us to easily beat you. Teams are being forced to keep a TE in a good majority of the plays or call alot more 5 WR sets to take him out of the game. Where as Avalanche, you just pray that your OG has a decent build and didnt overlook speed and agility.

Remember, Denver is a LB doing this, not a DE. There is no LB even remotely close to his numbers in this league. He leads this league in not only sacks but tackles and is up there in hurries ( maybe thats because he gets to the QB ).


I don't think the OG having a decent build is enough, tbh. Avalanche, like Denver, is a special breed. I'm still torn on who I'd vote for, as you do have to gameplan around both. Having a DT like Avalanche that can not only stuff the inside run but also get to the QB is a luxury very few teams have.

Originally posted by shutd0wn
Originally posted by markm6770

I didn't have to play against him, but I'd vote Avalanche also. I have tremendous respect for Denver Last Dinosaur, but it is possible to game plan around him. Not so for Avalanche, and he definitely makes that defense shine.


I wouldn't say that. Denver threw you guys, and other teams out of their comfort zone and allowed us to easily beat you. Teams are being forced to keep a TE in a good majority of the plays or call alot more 5 WR sets to take him out of the game. Where as Avalanche, you just pray that your OG has a decent build and didnt overlook speed and agility.

Remember, Denver is a LB doing this, not a DE. There is no LB even remotely close to his numbers in this league. He leads this league in not only sacks but tackles and is up there in hurries ( maybe thats because he gets to the QB ).


Honestly, your running game allowed you to easily beat us. We haven't given up 7 yards per carry all season. Previous to this game, we'd only allowed more than 4.0 twice all season... and never over 5.0. 7.0 ypc was mind blowing and quite humbling.

ETA - Your run defense kicked some ass too that game.

Like I said, I'd probably give Denver the Zeta MVP, but I'd hate to have to face Avalanche because you can't get him off the field by varying formations.