Originally posted by kb2120
If you want to hate on us, knock yourself out.
deal
If you want to hate on us, knock yourself out.
deal
Mickgolden
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Originally posted by taurran
You're wrong. A higher level player obviously has had a greater number of SP's to allocate. If a lower level player or team beats them, then they're obviously the better managed or better built team. I'd consider that an accomplishment.
I think I smell sarcasm. If I don't, they why in the hell are you bothering to slow build about half the players you currently have?
You're wrong. A higher level player obviously has had a greater number of SP's to allocate. If a lower level player or team beats them, then they're obviously the better managed or better built team. I'd consider that an accomplishment.
I think I smell sarcasm. If I don't, they why in the hell are you bothering to slow build about half the players you currently have?
leenad
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Originally posted by PACharger
Originally posted by taurran
You're wrong. A higher level player obviously has had a greater number of SP's to allocate. If a lower level player or team beats them, then they're obviously the better managed or better built team. I'd consider that an accomplishment.
I think I smell sarcasm. If I don't, they why in the hell are you bothering to slow build about half the players you currently have?
Check ur nose bud
Originally posted by taurran
You're wrong. A higher level player obviously has had a greater number of SP's to allocate. If a lower level player or team beats them, then they're obviously the better managed or better built team. I'd consider that an accomplishment.
I think I smell sarcasm. If I don't, they why in the hell are you bothering to slow build about half the players you currently have?
Check ur nose bud
emir
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Originally posted by Erica
Originally posted by Klydon
Originally posted by taurran
You're wrong. A higher level player obviously has had a greater number of SP's to allocate. If a lower level player or team beats them, then they're obviously the better managed or better built team. I'd consider that an accomplishment.
Ah.. we got us a rocket scientist here! First, I will grant that the higher level player has had more SP's to spend. That technically gives them an obvious advantage. What you fail to take into account are slow builds (along with the associated training advantage that goes along with it) and the effect they have on the overall points a player has. You also fail to take into account that by soft capping as quickly as possible, regardless of immediate player performance, that you gain a SP advantage for down the road because as your guy levels up, he gets "free" points in his primary stats. Each "free" point there will save at least 2 SP's than if you were responsible for making the player ready to play on a competitive level as quickly as possible.
If there was such a huge advantage of ripping off a 3 level boost to get those 15 extra SP's as quickly as possible in the teens and twenties then why do people wait until the end of the season to boost? That is because they are after more stats and to gain both a training advantage and a stat advantage. If this was not the case then why slow build and wait on boosting?
If your level 24 player has 400 total skill points and my level 30 has 375, then who is better than who? The 24 has the advantage and also the greater potential, but it took them longer to become a "real" player. I think over time, everyone has learned that if you have the time, then slow build is the way to go. There are plenty of "how to slow build" posts all over the forums. Part of the issue is that when the game started, those ideas and concepts did not exist. They came into being over a period of time. Older players had to learn by trial and error and don't forget that the game has changed over time as well. What was a great build 3 seasons ago probably is not so hot right now. (Just ask all those off the hook speed DE's).
So in short, I am correct as far as it is more of a measure of a player to look at the total of their stats as a more accurate prediction of their game strength than their level because the total can vary so much from player to player, even those of the same level. It is no accident that a level 24 slow build can hang with a level 30 regular player that elected to boost early each season. They both probably have about the same amount of total stats. Now, what a person elects to do with those stats and how game planning works around it will also have a huge impact on the overall strength of a player/team as well.
Bottom line is levels are pretty meaningless except to indicate when it is time to buy gear.
It sounds interesting but its really long, bullet points?
Agreed
Originally posted by Klydon
Originally posted by taurran
You're wrong. A higher level player obviously has had a greater number of SP's to allocate. If a lower level player or team beats them, then they're obviously the better managed or better built team. I'd consider that an accomplishment.
Ah.. we got us a rocket scientist here! First, I will grant that the higher level player has had more SP's to spend. That technically gives them an obvious advantage. What you fail to take into account are slow builds (along with the associated training advantage that goes along with it) and the effect they have on the overall points a player has. You also fail to take into account that by soft capping as quickly as possible, regardless of immediate player performance, that you gain a SP advantage for down the road because as your guy levels up, he gets "free" points in his primary stats. Each "free" point there will save at least 2 SP's than if you were responsible for making the player ready to play on a competitive level as quickly as possible.
If there was such a huge advantage of ripping off a 3 level boost to get those 15 extra SP's as quickly as possible in the teens and twenties then why do people wait until the end of the season to boost? That is because they are after more stats and to gain both a training advantage and a stat advantage. If this was not the case then why slow build and wait on boosting?
If your level 24 player has 400 total skill points and my level 30 has 375, then who is better than who? The 24 has the advantage and also the greater potential, but it took them longer to become a "real" player. I think over time, everyone has learned that if you have the time, then slow build is the way to go. There are plenty of "how to slow build" posts all over the forums. Part of the issue is that when the game started, those ideas and concepts did not exist. They came into being over a period of time. Older players had to learn by trial and error and don't forget that the game has changed over time as well. What was a great build 3 seasons ago probably is not so hot right now. (Just ask all those off the hook speed DE's).
So in short, I am correct as far as it is more of a measure of a player to look at the total of their stats as a more accurate prediction of their game strength than their level because the total can vary so much from player to player, even those of the same level. It is no accident that a level 24 slow build can hang with a level 30 regular player that elected to boost early each season. They both probably have about the same amount of total stats. Now, what a person elects to do with those stats and how game planning works around it will also have a huge impact on the overall strength of a player/team as well.
Bottom line is levels are pretty meaningless except to indicate when it is time to buy gear.
It sounds interesting but its really long, bullet points?
Agreed
kb2120
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Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by PACharger
Your 1 season in CPL shouldn't be a podium for you to jump up and down on to sing your own praise.
Not to mention that the person you are talking to also GM's a team in Africa Pro, and he's carrying far more "accomplishment" trophies then you are....
What's funny is the APL team I GM could be considered a farm team for our SA AAA team. They aren't the main focus of our efforts obviously. The Waxers, on the other hand, are a season 4 team that will go from A to Pro in 4 seasons.
I'm not a huge fan of APL, and CPL is mostly overrated by the loud forums they sport. Having a "Pro" tag doesn't mean squat in the grand scheme of things. I know quite a few AA-AAA teams that could destroy a large number of Pro teams.
But certainly, if a team is full of level 38+ players they'll be doing well in a AA league...
hmm you have a lvl 36 DE on the Cannibals... Hey pot I think that is the kettle calling...
Originally posted by PACharger
Your 1 season in CPL shouldn't be a podium for you to jump up and down on to sing your own praise.
Not to mention that the person you are talking to also GM's a team in Africa Pro, and he's carrying far more "accomplishment" trophies then you are....
What's funny is the APL team I GM could be considered a farm team for our SA AAA team. They aren't the main focus of our efforts obviously. The Waxers, on the other hand, are a season 4 team that will go from A to Pro in 4 seasons.
I'm not a huge fan of APL, and CPL is mostly overrated by the loud forums they sport. Having a "Pro" tag doesn't mean squat in the grand scheme of things. I know quite a few AA-AAA teams that could destroy a large number of Pro teams.
But certainly, if a team is full of level 38+ players they'll be doing well in a AA league...
hmm you have a lvl 36 DE on the Cannibals... Hey pot I think that is the kettle calling...
leenad
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Originally posted by kb2120
Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by PACharger
Your 1 season in CPL shouldn't be a podium for you to jump up and down on to sing your own praise.
Not to mention that the person you are talking to also GM's a team in Africa Pro, and he's carrying far more "accomplishment" trophies then you are....
What's funny is the APL team I GM could be considered a farm team for our SA AAA team. They aren't the main focus of our efforts obviously. The Waxers, on the other hand, are a season 4 team that will go from A to Pro in 4 seasons.
I'm not a huge fan of APL, and CPL is mostly overrated by the loud forums they sport. Having a "Pro" tag doesn't mean squat in the grand scheme of things. I know quite a few AA-AAA teams that could destroy a large number of Pro teams.
But certainly, if a team is full of level 38+ players they'll be doing well in a AA league...
hmm you have a lvl 36 DE on the Cannibals... Hey pot I think that is the kettle calling...
I don't get it?? How does one level 36 compare to having a starting lineup of all almost level 40s?
Originally posted by taurran
Originally posted by PACharger
Your 1 season in CPL shouldn't be a podium for you to jump up and down on to sing your own praise.
Not to mention that the person you are talking to also GM's a team in Africa Pro, and he's carrying far more "accomplishment" trophies then you are....
What's funny is the APL team I GM could be considered a farm team for our SA AAA team. They aren't the main focus of our efforts obviously. The Waxers, on the other hand, are a season 4 team that will go from A to Pro in 4 seasons.
I'm not a huge fan of APL, and CPL is mostly overrated by the loud forums they sport. Having a "Pro" tag doesn't mean squat in the grand scheme of things. I know quite a few AA-AAA teams that could destroy a large number of Pro teams.
But certainly, if a team is full of level 38+ players they'll be doing well in a AA league...
hmm you have a lvl 36 DE on the Cannibals... Hey pot I think that is the kettle calling...
I don't get it?? How does one level 36 compare to having a starting lineup of all almost level 40s?
kb2120
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OK, let me spell it out for you... He is complaining about Richmond doing the exact same thing he did, bring in a high level player to this league. I realize that Richmond got more lvl 35+ players, but I just wouldn't expect the person that did that himself to be the one out here whining about it. The comment was directed solely at him, not the Cannibals as a team...
I can at least kind of understand the people that didn't bring a high level player of their own to this league whining.
I can at least kind of understand the people that didn't bring a high level player of their own to this league whining.
Last edited Dec 2, 2008 21:02:53
head1
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Its one thing to change a few players but to kick everyone who got you here off the team is another. It was funny when the argument was we are just replacing a few but as the off season kept going more and more people kept getting the boot, and dont tell me it was because they asked to move on because one of the main agents from the team has players on my team.
Spin it how you want but the facts are there, you guys on the team now better hope you keep the owner happy or he may go find another team to replace you with and not warn you!
Spin it how you want but the facts are there, you guys on the team now better hope you keep the owner happy or he may go find another team to replace you with and not warn you!
Aaron330
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Originally posted by head1
Its one thing to change a few players but to kick everyone who got you here off the team is another. It was funny when the argument was we are just replacing a few but as the off season kept going more and more people kept getting the boot, and dont tell me it was because they asked to move on because one of the main agents from the team has players on my team.
Spin it how you want but the facts are there, you guys on the team now better hope you keep the owner happy or he may go find another team to replace you with and not warn you!
thats cold...I would be furious if my owner kicked me off a team that was promoted just to stay in championship contention for that year.
Its one thing to change a few players but to kick everyone who got you here off the team is another. It was funny when the argument was we are just replacing a few but as the off season kept going more and more people kept getting the boot, and dont tell me it was because they asked to move on because one of the main agents from the team has players on my team.
Spin it how you want but the facts are there, you guys on the team now better hope you keep the owner happy or he may go find another team to replace you with and not warn you!
thats cold...I would be furious if my owner kicked me off a team that was promoted just to stay in championship contention for that year.
Icky Thump
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Originally posted by head1
Its one thing to change a few players but to kick everyone who got you here off the team is another. It was funny when the argument was we are just replacing a few but as the off season kept going more and more people kept getting the boot, and dont tell me it was because they asked to move on because one of the main agents from the team has players on my team.
Spin it how you want but the facts are there, you guys on the team now better hope you keep the owner happy or he may go find another team to replace you with and not warn you!
This is a blatant lie... but what are the facts to get in the way of good BULLSHIT?
Again if I need repeat it... our team got promoted out of Africa A1 earlier than we expected due to the realignment. Generally if a first season team finishes 4th in their own division (not league but DIVISION) they don't get promoted but we did. This put the whole team behind the ball in levels (especially considering I had recruited my team and not created some slow build machine) and in money/stadium etc.
MOST of the players on my team at the start of season 6 saw that we were in way over our heads as far as player levels and stadium and accepted that we either needed to make a move to bring in higher level players or just get crushed for the most part. I didn't kick ANYONE off the team, I would have gladly kept any one of them for depth as we really have needed it. I didn't hold anyone hostage either even though we have absolutely needed the depth. I did exactly what my players asked.
I bent over backwards to help my players (I even created the team logo for the agent's team that head1 refers to.) and was content with my team last season and would have not agreed to bring on the higher level players had it not been for a majority of my players agreeing that we needed to make a move as a team to get better. I tried to do what was best for everyone involved and went with the TEAM majority opinion... I expect many of you would have done the same.
Its one thing to change a few players but to kick everyone who got you here off the team is another. It was funny when the argument was we are just replacing a few but as the off season kept going more and more people kept getting the boot, and dont tell me it was because they asked to move on because one of the main agents from the team has players on my team.
Spin it how you want but the facts are there, you guys on the team now better hope you keep the owner happy or he may go find another team to replace you with and not warn you!
This is a blatant lie... but what are the facts to get in the way of good BULLSHIT?
Again if I need repeat it... our team got promoted out of Africa A1 earlier than we expected due to the realignment. Generally if a first season team finishes 4th in their own division (not league but DIVISION) they don't get promoted but we did. This put the whole team behind the ball in levels (especially considering I had recruited my team and not created some slow build machine) and in money/stadium etc.
MOST of the players on my team at the start of season 6 saw that we were in way over our heads as far as player levels and stadium and accepted that we either needed to make a move to bring in higher level players or just get crushed for the most part. I didn't kick ANYONE off the team, I would have gladly kept any one of them for depth as we really have needed it. I didn't hold anyone hostage either even though we have absolutely needed the depth. I did exactly what my players asked.
I bent over backwards to help my players (I even created the team logo for the agent's team that head1 refers to.) and was content with my team last season and would have not agreed to bring on the higher level players had it not been for a majority of my players agreeing that we needed to make a move as a team to get better. I tried to do what was best for everyone involved and went with the TEAM majority opinion... I expect many of you would have done the same.
taurran
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Originally posted by Klydon
Ah.. we got us a rocket scientist here! First, I will grant that the higher level player has had more SP's to spend. That technically gives them an obvious advantage. What you fail to take into account are slow builds (along with the associated training advantage that goes along with it) and the effect they have on the overall points a player has. You also fail to take into account that by soft capping as quickly as possible, regardless of immediate player performance, that you gain a SP advantage for down the road because as your guy levels up, he gets "free" points in his primary stats. Each "free" point there will save at least 2 SP's than if you were responsible for making the player ready to play on a competitive level as quickly as possible.
If there was such a huge advantage of ripping off a 3 level boost to get those 15 extra SP's as quickly as possible in the teens and twenties then why do people wait until the end of the season to boost? That is because they are after more stats and to gain both a training advantage and a stat advantage. If this was not the case then why slow build and wait on boosting?
If your level 24 player has 400 total skill points and my level 30 has 375, then who is better than who? The 24 has the advantage and also the greater potential, but it took them longer to become a "real" player. I think over time, everyone has learned that if you have the time, then slow build is the way to go. There are plenty of "how to slow build" posts all over the forums. Part of the issue is that when the game started, those ideas and concepts did not exist. They came into being over a period of time. Older players had to learn by trial and error and don't forget that the game has changed over time as well. What was a great build 3 seasons ago probably is not so hot right now. (Just ask all those off the hook speed DE's).
So in short, I am correct as far as it is more of a measure of a player to look at the total of their stats as a more accurate prediction of their game strength than their level because the total can vary so much from player to player, even those of the same level. It is no accident that a level 24 slow build can hang with a level 30 regular player that elected to boost early each season. They both probably have about the same amount of total stats. Now, what a person elects to do with those stats and how game planning works around it will also have a huge impact on the overall strength of a player/team as well.
Bottom line is levels are pretty meaningless except to indicate when it is time to buy gear.
Nice attempt at justifying inferior builds...
Also, stats mean absolutely NOTHING at this point with all of the gutted and slow build teams littering the leagues.
Ah.. we got us a rocket scientist here! First, I will grant that the higher level player has had more SP's to spend. That technically gives them an obvious advantage. What you fail to take into account are slow builds (along with the associated training advantage that goes along with it) and the effect they have on the overall points a player has. You also fail to take into account that by soft capping as quickly as possible, regardless of immediate player performance, that you gain a SP advantage for down the road because as your guy levels up, he gets "free" points in his primary stats. Each "free" point there will save at least 2 SP's than if you were responsible for making the player ready to play on a competitive level as quickly as possible.
If there was such a huge advantage of ripping off a 3 level boost to get those 15 extra SP's as quickly as possible in the teens and twenties then why do people wait until the end of the season to boost? That is because they are after more stats and to gain both a training advantage and a stat advantage. If this was not the case then why slow build and wait on boosting?
If your level 24 player has 400 total skill points and my level 30 has 375, then who is better than who? The 24 has the advantage and also the greater potential, but it took them longer to become a "real" player. I think over time, everyone has learned that if you have the time, then slow build is the way to go. There are plenty of "how to slow build" posts all over the forums. Part of the issue is that when the game started, those ideas and concepts did not exist. They came into being over a period of time. Older players had to learn by trial and error and don't forget that the game has changed over time as well. What was a great build 3 seasons ago probably is not so hot right now. (Just ask all those off the hook speed DE's).
So in short, I am correct as far as it is more of a measure of a player to look at the total of their stats as a more accurate prediction of their game strength than their level because the total can vary so much from player to player, even those of the same level. It is no accident that a level 24 slow build can hang with a level 30 regular player that elected to boost early each season. They both probably have about the same amount of total stats. Now, what a person elects to do with those stats and how game planning works around it will also have a huge impact on the overall strength of a player/team as well.
Bottom line is levels are pretty meaningless except to indicate when it is time to buy gear.
Nice attempt at justifying inferior builds...
Also, stats mean absolutely NOTHING at this point with all of the gutted and slow build teams littering the leagues.
Last edited Dec 3, 2008 12:15:15
taurran
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Originally posted by kb2120
OK, let me spell it out for you... He is complaining about Richmond doing the exact same thing he did, bring in a high level player to this league. I realize that Richmond got more lvl 35+ players, but I just wouldn't expect the person that did that himself to be the one out here whining about it. The comment was directed solely at him, not the Cannibals as a team...
I can at least kind of understand the people that didn't bring a high level player of their own to this league whining.
GTFO with these idiotic straw-grasping analogies. That in no way relates to folding a Pro level team and bringing them as a group to an AA league.
OK, let me spell it out for you... He is complaining about Richmond doing the exact same thing he did, bring in a high level player to this league. I realize that Richmond got more lvl 35+ players, but I just wouldn't expect the person that did that himself to be the one out here whining about it. The comment was directed solely at him, not the Cannibals as a team...
I can at least kind of understand the people that didn't bring a high level player of their own to this league whining.
GTFO with these idiotic straw-grasping analogies. That in no way relates to folding a Pro level team and bringing them as a group to an AA league.
taurran
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Originally posted by PACharger
I think I smell sarcasm. If I don't, they why in the hell are you bothering to slow build about half the players you currently have?
... more stupid comments?
A slow built player doesn't have MORE SP's to allocate. They just allocate them after using training to bring a stat up to an acceptable level. I've been doing this since before the "slow building" term was even coined.
I think I smell sarcasm. If I don't, they why in the hell are you bothering to slow build about half the players you currently have?
... more stupid comments?
A slow built player doesn't have MORE SP's to allocate. They just allocate them after using training to bring a stat up to an acceptable level. I've been doing this since before the "slow building" term was even coined.
Klydon
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Originally posted by taurran
blah, blah, blah
Nice job trying to "sell" the idea that slow build players have no more total stats than a player who boosted as early as possible every chance they got. Again, if there was no difference, then why do most people with players below say 28 try to hold off on boosting as long as possible?
Once again, don't try to lay the crap on me (or anyone else) that because you have some slow built level 24 player that has as much total stats as a player that is level 29 and then act like its a big deal that your level 24 player made hay against a player above your level.
blah, blah, blah
Nice job trying to "sell" the idea that slow build players have no more total stats than a player who boosted as early as possible every chance they got. Again, if there was no difference, then why do most people with players below say 28 try to hold off on boosting as long as possible?
Once again, don't try to lay the crap on me (or anyone else) that because you have some slow built level 24 player that has as much total stats as a player that is level 29 and then act like its a big deal that your level 24 player made hay against a player above your level.
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