Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
Really? Xar's QB isn't built to take advantage of deep balls, he's been pretty open about that.

And Man is OP, I ran it for years, it is more consistent than Zone despite the lack of TOs. I routinely held 2/3rds of the teams I faced to 300 yards offense and shut out well over a third easily.

You know why Zone and Hybrid has been outperforming Man lately... its because a lot of your top guys switched off of Man to try something new. Its why I switched to Zone. I'm just not bored with it yet to switch to Hybrid, though I may have no choice.

Himelayas QB has no PF or TTN and just how much did he he throw deep vs over the middle and right into the Lion's hands.

I played Nevada who has a S*QB and a S*WR and here is every play they threw for 15yds or more:

Nevada Wolfpack (S*QB & S*WR) 15 yds or more:
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/816564/132532 (25yds)
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/816564/132656 (19yds)
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/816564/132893 (19yds)
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/816564/132991 (22yds)
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/816564/133013 (21yds)
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/816564/133102 (22yds)
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/816564/133144 (17yds)
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/816564/133152 (15yds)
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/816564/133478 (20yds)
https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/816564/133940 (24yds)

No amount of blitzing helped.

Myrik, I've got to agree with Cdog on this. You're playing up a tier against a team with 7 S* on Offense and you're wondering why you didn't stop them? You can't expect them to balance the game using this as a template.


And Man is OP, I ran it for years, it is more consistent than Zone despite the lack of TOs.

Actually, in a PVP-game, it isn't if everyone runs it. By definition. You built it better than others. Man can't be OP if it's always compared to itself.

It's a Logic thing.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar


You know why Zone and Hybrid has been outperforming Man lately... its because a lot of your top guys switched off of Man to try something new.

The combination of builds and play calling matter.

Originally posted by Xars
Actually, in a PVP-game, it isn't if everyone runs it. By definition. You built it better than others. Man can't be OP if it's always compared to itself.

It's a Logic thing.

It's also probably important to adjust expectations when you want to "try something different". If your bar is the same one you're used to from running the well known "best" thing, then you're inevitably going to pretty disappointed with the result. One thing is always the best, which means everything else is worse. Still landing in the upper echelon with your "trying something different" approach is a cause for celebration, not rageposting.

I consider people being able to at least compete with the meta strategy using less popular strategies a personal victory, regardless if they are the number one team in the game or not. As stated earlier, only one thing can be the best, and then everyone else follows.

Originally posted by Corndog
It's also probably important to adjust expectations when you want to "try something different". If your same bar is the one you're used to from running the well known "best" thing, then you're inevitably going to pretty disappointed with the result. One thing is always the best, which means everything else is worse. Still landing in the upper echelon with your "trying something different" approach is a cause for celebration, not rageposting.

I consider people being able to at least compete with the meta strategy using less popular strategies a personal victory, regardless if they are the number one team in the game or not. As stated earlier, only one thing can be the best, and then everyone else follows.

The game has two systems: Man and Zone. Bort and Cdog can only try to balance the outcomes. If they make all the inputs equal, then there isn't two systems.

And if there are two systems, run with different inputs, one will always be better than the other. Sometimes it will be .5% better and sometimes 50% better, but variances are going to happen. That's why bug fixes, new features, etc. get added. It's an attempt to bring the two systems into equivalency. As close to equal as possilble, but ultimately different.

Man D plays have players playing Zone. Zone only has players playing Zone. Why are there no man isolation plays? Maybe there should be?

Originally posted by Xars
Man D plays have players playing Zone. Zone only has players playing Zone. Why are there no man isolation plays? Maybe there should be?

Because there's not enough players on the field.

At best you're looking at like, a 3 stack with a 3 man rush and two WRs covered. Garbage zone coverage, garbage pass rush, and free TE passes all day.

Originally posted by Corndog
Because there's not enough players on the field.



They've got the same number as Man.

Ok, I get your point. It's just kind of funny.

Originally posted by Xars
They've got the same number as Man.

Ok, I get your point. It's just kind of funny.

I mean I guess we could make something with 4 man defenders and call it a zone play but

Originally posted by Corndog
I mean I guess we could make something with 4 man defenders and call it a zone play but

I'd rather you make a Nickel TRIPS version (both 4-2 and 3-3-5) and Quad TRIPS versions (Dime and Dime 3-2-6) where you slide the CBs to the Weak side.

Please do that first.

Originally posted by Corndog
We are still using you playing a tier up against a superstar QB and WR as proof that it's indefensible?

You also scored zero points, does that mean your offensive scheme is also horribly broken and unplayable?

Point taken

I forget I'm at that shit tier where I can face up to 2 tiers up above me.

Originally posted by Corndog
I mean I guess we could make something with 4 man defenders and call it a zone play but

I would really like more plays that have 3-4 players in zone with man cover as well. right now I think there's only 2 plays with one cb in zone with the other in man. if we could do c2 cb man out of the 3-4 that would be the ideal

Originally posted by Xars

I don't think Man CB SAs are the answer because the Defenses are setup different. I think a different answer is (potentially) needed.


I agree....zone DBs shouldn't have the same SAs as man DBs. Deep zone DBs do need something...because they have nothing.

Get rid of "over the top help" for Zone Shark is one idea. I like hard hitting SAs for safeties. As of now, I Gold Monster Hit on all my safeties...but that isn't zone specific.

Could also have a similar SA to Pick Six for deep zones (safeties). And before people start going off on safeties not picking off passes, Ed Reed use to pick off passes and take it to the house all the time. In his 11 year career, he had 7 pick sixes and 61 INTs.

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/815298/181210

Good god

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/815298/182150

Lot of nice throws this game.

Originally posted by Myrik_Justiciar
You know why Zone and Hybrid has been outperforming Man lately... its because a lot of your top guys switched off of Man to try something new. Its why I switched to Zone. I'm just not bored with it yet to switch to Hybrid, though I may have no choice.

I know Leo and I talked about running Hybrid back when BSB was rookie. We had 2 different ideas in approaching a hybrid concept, his was better lol. The main idea about Hybrid was to help offset the glaring weakness of zone plays in certain formations as Xars mentioned. To be honest, I think the game has reached a point where running hybrid defenses is more preferred vs the all zone or all man defensive schemes. Which also reflects "real" football I believe, at least to a certain degree (one of you hardcore football coaches/ players can correct me). I think the ability to run zone or man in certain situations makes the game quite interesting.

Originally posted by Xars
I'd rather you make a Nickel TRIPS version (both 4-2 and 3-3-5) and Quad TRIPS versions (Dime and Dime 3-2-6) where you slide the CBs to the Weak side.

Please do that first.



Not a bad idea at all!


Originally posted by Adderfist
I would really like more plays that have 3-4 players in zone with man cover as well. right now I think there's only 2 plays with one cb in zone with the other in man. if we could do c2 cb man out of the 3-4 that would be the ideal


Correct me if I'm wrong, but defensive plays like 3-4 sky man under has CB1 and CB2 dropping back into zone? I was never 100% sure if plays like that are designed that way. Also not a bad idea either, helps hybrid teams

last thing: Man CB's can dominate int easy https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/player/303547 My goal was to beat him for 1st place with my zone CB. This CB was a beast!

Originally posted by dlcurt
I know Leo and I talked about running Hybrid back when BSB was rookie. We had 2 different ideas in approaching a hybrid concept, his was better lol. The main idea about Hybrid was to help offset the glaring weakness of zone plays in certain formations as Xars mentioned.

This is exactly why I run a some what hybrid zone. I will only run man plays vs trips...and that is at a 50/50 man/zone.

Originally posted by Cybertron
I agree....zone DBs shouldn't have the same SAs as man DBs. Deep zone DBs do need something...because they have nothing.


Conceptually, I think this is where the deep Zone problem gets help. Safeties who provide double coverage over the top get an SA that’s INT focused on Deep balls. It’s true to football and double coverage seemingly needs some improvement. You don’t get Man coverage leading to doubles either unless you’re play Cover 1 or Cover 2, which of course is Zone (at least for those players).

You can also create more Zone plays with smaller deep zone radius (giving up coverage underneath) to get those doubles to happen more often.

Again, I think Bort and Cdog will do something if it’s necessary, but in my view, there are plenty of things they can tweak. We really need to see the plays first to figure out the appropriate counter. There’s still no 100 Pass Power QB or true Elusive burners on the edge like Barry Allen was back at the beginning.

Nice pass here:

https://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/815549/183962