Warrior General Games

Originally posted by blln4lyf
Originally posted by Bukowski

Originally posted by bhall43


Originally posted by Bukowski



Why?

Why should a fake-out be less of a morale killer than a monster hit?

Because one player plays more than the other? I don't really see the logic in that.

i guess im just thinking about blinking backs a few seasons back and how they blinked out a ton of defenders...the morale for the defense would be utterly shot to hell if the strength was equal...as compared to a monster hit/big hit 3/4 times in a game maybe...

But Elusive RBs don't do that anymore. It is pretty damn hard to blink anyone consistently right now.

The less strength you have the more the big hit effects you. Obviously if your strength is very low you will get effected more than if you juke someone out.

Right, I get that.

But it shouldn't just be one is more than the other, without the attributes supporting it.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by Bukowski

But Elusive RBs don't do that anymore. It is pretty damn hard to blink anyone consistently right now.
It's really not. In fact, with +% fake chance AEQ, you're seeing a lot of guys have multiple fakes on one run to get into the endzone.

% fake chance does nothing without HF/Juke though

Originally posted by blln4lyf
% fake chance does nothing without HF/Juke though

Does a lot with it, though.

Originally posted by kurieg
Originally posted by blln4lyf

The problem is higher vision/elusive running doesn't actually help..it does the opposite actually.

I don't have a problem with improving this.

But I really do believe that what I'm saying will help anyway. Although... it may help in the perimeter "beat this guy and I'm gone" scenario and hurt in the dodging people in traffic scenario.



I honestly skimmed the past few pages and have no idea what you are saying at this point, care to repost?

It is a nice combo, but you need to basically focus your entire build on "fakes", just to be pretty good at it.

That's what the whole point of this was, that they need to have a bit more of a boost, to be able to see the field better than they are, which would help make fakes more consistent.

Originally posted by kurieg
Originally posted by blln4lyf

% fake chance does nothing without HF/Juke though

Does a lot with it, though.

BT % does a lot with or without SAs

Originally posted by Deathblade
Vision is broke...because pathing is broke.



Instead of fixing the pathing, which I don't think can be done, without a complete sim over haul. And bort sure as hell doesn't want to listen to fix the pathing. Lets try a different direction with this.

Vision should just give a boost to doing certain things offensively, instead of it being a pathing issue.
Ex:
Wr: high vision = higher fake %, higher catch ball %,
Hb: High vision = higher fake %, and a % boost to doing certain things to make a play with the ball
Qb: High vision = hit open hb (yeah right )
You get it? I wouldn't take the pathing angle bc we are so far away from that, I would try the approach of lets actually just get vision to do SOMETHING

Originally posted by blln4lyf
Originally posted by kurieg

Originally posted by blln4lyf


% fake chance does nothing without HF/Juke though

Does a lot with it, though.

BT % does a lot with or without SAs

Yep.

Originally posted by Bukowski
Right, I get that.

But it shouldn't just be one is more than the other, without the attributes supporting it.

i would think most defenders would have beyond soft capped vision/tackling tho...so now where do we go from here?

Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by Bukowski

Right, I get that.

But it shouldn't just be one is more than the other, without the attributes supporting it.

i would think most defenders would have beyond soft capped vision/tackling tho...so now where do we go from here?

I don't know... I bring Strength up on my RBs as well, so it doesn't really matter to me.

I don't really build pure Elusive Backs anymore, because they really don't work well. But that's what I'm trying to get at, I think they should have a place in the game.

Originally posted by blln4lyf
I honestly skimmed the past few pages and have no idea what you are saying at this point, care to repost?

I'm talking about the fact that backs fake people then run into them anyway, regardless of elusive/power setting. They don't see the faked target as a threat.

A fake would be much better if the back froze the defender and ran around him.

IMO

But there is the issue that HBs picking anything outside of a straight path is... interesting to watch.

Originally posted by David Stern
Instead of fixing the pathing, which I don't think can be done, without a complete sim over haul. And bort sure as hell doesn't want to listen to fix the pathing. Lets try a different direction with this.

Vision should just give a boost to doing certain things offensively, instead of it being a pathing issue.
Ex:
Wr: high vision = higher fake %, higher catch ball %,
Hb: High vision = higher fake %, and a % boost to doing certain things to make a play with the ball
Qb: High vision = hit open hb (yeah right )
You get it? I wouldn't take the pathing angle bc we are so far away from that, I would try the approach of lets actually just get vision to do SOMETHING

for WR's...i feel vision should be more along the lines of creative route running (finding the open space) and faking than catching the ball...imho...

Originally posted by jrry32
Emmanuel Moody isn't an elusive RB, first of all.
Yes, he is, but congratulations on not knowing the personnel of a team you supposedly follow. Obviously you looked at the 210 pounds and thought that meant he wasn't elusive, but anyone who actually paid attention to him on the field would know otherwise.

Originally posted by
By them losing their balance, it makes it easier for the RB to run by them without being tackle, to run through their tackle and to generally elude them.
Look up the word "elude." It doesn't mean to successfully go by something, it means to move away from it. Decreasing someone's chance at making a tackle is absolutely not "eluding" them. Moving in a direction that prevents them from even attempting a tackle is "eluding" them.

Originally posted by
Also for the 100th time, we call any movement on HERE(GLB) where the defender shrinks, a fake, so we are not talking about REAL LIFE fakes, we are talking about GLB fakes. Can you not see the difference?
I can, but you clearly can't. You're making a giant ass out of yourself by not differentiating between making cuts and the actual act of "faking." Bort coded "fakes" into the sim, and they don't mean to make a change in direction. +% fake chance AEQ doesn't help you make better cuts, jrry. If your ridiculously asinine attempt to define "fake" as anything that causes the defender to pause or lose momentum was actually correct, then it obviously would. It doesn't because that's not what "fake" means in GLB or in real football.

Originally posted by
Now why can a player not lose his balance when an offensive player makes a quick cut or cutback?
THAT ALREADY HAPPENS. Get a clue and watch a replay, because right now you're wasting my time and making yourself look like someone who is completely clueless about the sim.

Small offtopic suggestion: Have threads that compile the concerns of the community over one issue. In this case elusive running. Let me give you an example:

- Super elusive works poorly because of pathing
- vision has a strange behavior for elusive HBs
- agility-based HBs should be viable too, not just speed and break tackle backs
- defenders can recover "too quickly" from a fake or juke
- it's impossible to give real examples of elusive HBs in the current sim since no one builds them since they aren't as effective
- fake implementation in GLB is not very realistic

Something like this, in a public place everyone can consult, but only editable by specific mods. It would make it more visible BOTH WAYS, not only for bort, but for the community, that the issues existing in the game ARE being acknowledged.

Now more ontopic, if something IS done to elusive backs (good, cause I wanted to try and build one like that) remember the balance between D and O mustn't really be upset too much.

Originally posted by kurieg
Originally posted by blln4lyf

I honestly skimmed the past few pages and have no idea what you are saying at this point, care to repost?

I'm talking about the fact that backs fake people then run into them anyway, regardless of elusive/power setting. They don't see the faked target as a threat.

A fake would be much better if the back froze the defender and ran around him.

IMO

But there is the issue that HBs picking anything outside of a straight path is... interesting to watch.

Oh, I agree with that 100% and also agree with that issue as well. But I still think you shouldn't need a SA to fake or you could make quick cuts/cutbacks effect the defenders loss of balance a little more if the agility/etc difference is big..and then the most obvious is to fix pathing, but that is very hard to accomplish.