Warrior General Games

Holy Shit! Crazy game between Siberian Coldfront and TBBD in Gin...

http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/game/251959

GG Coldfront/Monty! Our conditioning is starting to pay off.

Really good game Deevee. You guys are a nightmare to Dcoordinate against. After watching the game, I am kicking myself for some of my defensive calls. I got a little to cute with some calls that I thought would work, and they wound up backfiring (Cl RILB lurk got burned on screen, and my LB contain instead of the DE contain). Great game though.

GG Aeir, your corners were annoyingly good at shedding blocks just in time. Was a thriller!

So after the supposed counter "nerf" Barry Sanders is averaging more YPC this season than last. Seems like nothing can stop Barry

Originally posted by FairForever
So after the supposed counter "nerf" Barry Sanders is averaging more YPC this season than last. Seems like nothing can stop Barry

Yeah the counter repeat penalty isn't really good. Barry will be good until defenses get Sprint/break block skills up

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
GG Aeir, your corners were annoyingly good at shedding blocks just in time. Was a thriller!

Yep GG

Originally posted by FairForever
So after the supposed counter "nerf" Barry Sanders is averaging more YPC this season than last. Seems like nothing can stop Barry

Milwaukee and Absolute did a decent job of slowing him down but it's been open field against everyone else. I would tend to agree with Hayrow that the video game numbers might slow down a bit once defenses get faster.

its really all about the speed. if you look at the yac he basically falls over the moment you touch him, which means that teams are not investing enough into sprinting to catch him before he reaches the corner. the return of counters really made the difference because it just abuses the speed difference even more. there will probably be a meta change defensively in the future to take help with this. might actually see some people build zone defenses which are great at nullifying the speed advantage a bit.

I disagree, and doing decent is subjective. Most of my CB's and LB's and S's are all over 70 speed as well as 70+ pursuit at seasoned (that's specifically how I built them...to run to the ball)

Counters are still broken. End of story.

Originally posted by Aeir
I disagree, and doing decent is subjective. Most of my CB's and LB's and S's are all over 70 speed as well as 70+ pursuit at seasoned (that's specifically how I built them...to run to the ball)

Counters are still broken. End of story.

I think counters are slightly less effective than last season but Barry and HOF are just the most extreme example and an outlier.

Looking at global levels at vet:

SB Trip Counter Strong S14: 11.49 YPC
SB Trip Counter Strong s15: 9.16 YPC

Big I Counter Sweep Left s14: 10.76 YPC
Big I Counter Sweep Left s15: 9.61 YPC

Weak I HB Counter Sweep Strong s14: 10.66 YPC
Weak I HB Counter Sweep Strong s15: 5.12 YPC

Weak I HB Counter Sweep Weak s14: 7.63 YPC
Weak I HB Counter Sweep Weak s15: 5.01 YPC

SB Big HB Counter Sweep Right s14: 9.47 YPC
SB Big HB Counter Sweep Right s15: 4.42 YPC

I advocated for nerfing counters for the past 2 seasons and they finally did. I have seen them become slightly less effective on my other teams and I think a further nerf would probably take things too far. Judging the sim on one player is probably a bad idea and I think defenses will eventually catch up.

Originally posted by Aeir
I disagree, and doing decent is subjective. Most of my CB's and LB's and S's are all over 70 speed as well as 70+ pursuit at seasoned (that's specifically how I built them...to run to the ball)

Counters are still broken. End of story.

barry runs a 4.55 you really think 70 speed is fast enough? http://glb2.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay/257699/1162362 here is a good example rilb is practically lined up with the hb give or take a yard, doesnt get blocked but yet has to give up 13 yards to compensate for the speed difference. if that guy was running the same speed as barry i bet that gets cut down to 3-6 yards

Originally posted by Rob.
I think counters are slightly less effective than last season but Barry and HOF are just the most extreme example and an outlier.

Looking at global levels at vet:

SB Trip Counter Strong S14: 11.49 YPC
SB Trip Counter Strong s15: 9.16 YPC

Big I Counter Sweep Left s14: 10.76 YPC
Big I Counter Sweep Left s15: 9.61 YPC

Weak I HB Counter Sweep Strong s14: 10.66 YPC
Weak I HB Counter Sweep Strong s15: 5.12 YPC

Weak I HB Counter Sweep Weak s14: 7.63 YPC
Weak I HB Counter Sweep Weak s15: 5.01 YPC

SB Big HB Counter Sweep Right s14: 9.47 YPC
SB Big HB Counter Sweep Right s15: 4.42 YPC

I advocated for nerfing counters for the past 2 seasons and they finally did. I have seen them become slightly less effective on my other teams and I think a further nerf would probably take things too far. Judging the sim on one player is probably a bad idea and I think defenses will eventually catch up.


The last three are fine, but the first two (for Global data) seem too high. Defending against TRIPS would be easier if the Quarter Defense left a man on the open side of the field like the Dime alignments.

Originally posted by Xars
The last three are fine, but the first two (for Global data) seem too high. Defending against TRIPS would be easier if the Quarter Defense left a man on the open side of the field like the Dime alignments.

I agree about trips, need to be able to have someone line up o the weakside. Big I is more a product of everyone running quarter vs it.

Originally posted by USC_Trojans
I agree about trips, need to be able to have someone line up o the weakside. Big I is more a product of everyone running quarter vs it.

The numbers don't support your theory.

According to Stobie's tool, Quarter 2 Man Press this season is giving up 6.72 YPC compared to a 8.40 YPC average across all defensive plays in the Vet tier (not including CPU teams). So Quarter 2 Man Press is actually a better-than-average play against Big I HB Counter Sweep Left.

Agreed that Counters are weaker - as Rob pointed out. However I do think that the first two plays (Big I HB Counter Sweep Left & Singleback Trips HB Counter Strong) are still too strong. I don't think that a nerf to the Big I HB Counter Sweep Left play warrants any change to the other existing 2TE plays because of how strong that formation is at the moment, but I would hope that if/when they make Trips HB Counter Strong a little weaker, it is accompanied with maybe a new running play or two out of the 3WR formation so that we don't see the formation go extinct on pure run teams.

Originally posted by FairForever
The numbers don't support your theory.

According to Stobie's tool, Quarter 2 Man Press this season is giving up 6.72 YPC compared to a 8.40 YPC average across all defensive plays in the Vet tier (not including CPU teams). So Quarter 2 Man Press is actually a better-than-average play against Big I HB Counter Sweep Left.

Agreed that Counters are weaker - as Rob pointed out. However I do think that the first two plays (Big I HB Counter Sweep Left & Singleback Trips HB Counter Strong) are still too strong. I don't think that a nerf to the Big I HB Counter Sweep Left play warrants any change to the other existing 2TE plays because of how strong that formation is at the moment, but I would hope that if/when they make Trips HB Counter Strong a little weaker, it is accompanied with maybe a new running play or two out of the 3WR formation so that we don't see the formation go extinct on pure run teams.

4-4 Big Man Base is allowing 4.07 yards with a 40% tfl rate. it looks like DD and erkner are skewing the data a bit on the ypc