Warrior General Games

Maybe you should focus on fixing game play problems before continuing to change how the game is played.


Training and the options was already complicated enough, why bring it to a level that makes your head swim to figure out?

Rob

Originally posted by rwblake
Maybe you should focus on fixing game play problems before continuing to change how the game is played.


Training and the options was already complicated enough, why bring it to a level that makes your head swim to figure out?

Rob


this has been the ongoing and overall refrain...

Originally posted by Enkidu98
I've not read the entire thread, just hitting the first page. I will not be happy if the team of friends I have, and the players we decided to make together, find they can not play on the same team because we've added a 'meaningful salary cap'.

There is no good purpose to a system like this, you will not be releasing 'good players' into the FA market as they will likely be retired.

So I would tread lightly with these salary restrictions. The 'range' of expected salaries should be such that a team can have its 60 players (55 players and 5 coaches eventually) and they do not have to cut players because they have too good of a build and thus deserve more money than can be had under the salary cap.

The first system, required extra time to achieve the present status quo. So I objected because it was a non meaningful addition that treated my personal/real time as an owner (someone providing GLB a benefit for an out of pocket/personal cost) as something GLB was entitled to. Adding just a couple of hours of work every season is still adding work that I have to give up to maintain status quo. Not cool.

This second system appears, (again I will withhold my absolute judgment until the system is released) to make it so I will have to cut players from my team to meet salary cap because their expected pay for having good bills makes them too expensive to keep. If this occurs. I'm done completely as an owner. I may try to adjust by making my own players 'crappy' but I don't like that option much at all.

So if I have to cut players from my team to meet a salary cap because we made good players together, I will no longer pay you for the privilege to spend my time making your game fun for other people while I perform labour for you.


Heh. They fixed it big time. Basically came to an agreement of what me you death-blade, were all arguing between. I think you will love the new Idea. You should read the entire thread before commenting.

Bort really put in a ton of work, it was really nice to see him trying to understand what were the actual sim issues/user issues. Shows you how well hings get worked out when bort actually comes around.

He literally maintained the spirit of them game while instituting a cap, but doing so in a way that more rewards the under dog teams rather than punishing teams of friends he also did so in a way that will create more upsets, but at the same time not have people watching their dots running at lower than what they should.

It is really a great system I hope everyone reads what is actually happening, I know this damn thread is near 50 pages long, but with the tweaks we made we now have more competitive balance, teams built from the ground up are still going to be able to stick together forever, and mergers will be harder to do, but not impossible, because without them 1 man teams would run the game.

+1 glb

Sorry. I have to work today and don't have tome to go through the 47 pages of forum posts. No doubt many have reflected much if not all of my post. I really enjoy GLB - probably too much - my wife hates it equal to my liking it. At first read of the initial changes, it seemed truly overwhelming, but I figured I'd wait before posting. Probably a mistake. The biggest dissenters probably scared off Bort & Co.

I woke up this morning and it hit me - we knocked off a CPU team 757-0 yesterday - only ran 14 offensive plays .

With a salary cap in place that won't happen. They will have to have a minimum salary (therefore, paid players, otherwise they would have to pay me. No incentive to draw Pro League money to hoard while fielding a team of CPUs. I figure if a team can't sign the guys they want, they can always find some aging players. Even a 75-0 game would be exponentially better than yesterday's debacle.

I liked the original coaches ides.

The morale, equipment..etc..changes were the most complex - I could live with it, but the learning curve would need to be short.

Originally posted by Staz
Risking the whole "brown noser" label, I'm on board with Bort.

The reason there is a salary cap in the NFL is to encourage parity. So many people were in favor of a lower roster limit because they thought it would help spread the talent around. Now, this sort of thing will help spread talent around in a manner very similar to the NFL, and people are against it?


The NFL has a Salary Cap because it is a union of businesses. A Corporation whose executives are made up of owners of individual franchises. The NFL realised that increased parity of teams brought increased revenue for the whole from the product as the broadcasting rights etc became more valuable. People watch games if Dallas isn;t always winning because Dallas can spend more money than everyone else. Revenue sharing and caps, made each team more competitive, improved their broadcasting product and benefitted the whole.

GLB has owners and their referrals/freinds PAYING to PLAY. Systemic creations that break up friendships and social organisations for some mythical goal like 'Parity' in a sim with a non-intuitive building system that GUARANTEES your average player just starting out is going to suck compared to people who have a few seasons under their belt, restart and build under an arcane and non-intuitive system of raising attributes one at a time in a specific order while following a pretty set training pairs ladder....EG.. a system that ensures there is never going to be parity in the player builds.... and add to that that a team willing to spend MUCH MORE TIME to create a mega AI etc is going to dominate..

You are not going to achieve parity with this system.. Just piss off a lot of people.


Better to fix your sim. Fix your interactions. Scrap this player creation system that encourages people to hold points rather than spend them. ACCEPT that physically players in the NFL ARE carbon copies of one another, so obsesses less on 'Build Diversity' via attributes and instead achieve build diversity through TALENTS, eg... provide a large range of what are now SA and VA choices and allow players free choice to pick from them to modify their on field behaviour. This makes for a much more intuitive build system as your ending athlete falls within the same range that everyone else at his position/archetype has for their basic physical attriibutes but their choice of TALENTS changes the way the player plays.


Originally posted by Staz
You won't have super teams - Good. It forces those teams who form networks and bring hoards of top level players on to one team from doing that. I can see how you'd be frustrated, but it just seems that we have a Yankees type thing going on. If you're good, you go to a good team, only making the rich get richer type situation. You'll still be able to field a top notch team, but just not with these super mergers.

You also wont have decent teams who never tried to be uber and mergered etc, but whose players all liked playing together and being competitive but weren't obsessed with it to the point of 90 page AI's etc. You'll encourage teams to gut and start over and make 11 season commitments from the start for their 55 players. Making the very bestbuilders and game planners even more powerful.

I'm with Deathblade here. a Salary Cap is on the NGTH list for a reason. Stop trying to Social Engineer players and instead fix the fundamentals that are what are the true cause for much of the disparity in the game.

- Player Creation System is non-intuitive/counterintuitive.
- Sim still needs work. It allows for too large of an extreme. There is no hard cap to speed/strength etc encouraging players to 'break' the sim with extreme builds (150+ attributes) which then become the necesary/norm to be able to compete.
- Variation in effectiveness of plays is too great. The best teams do not really run many plays from the play book for this reason.
etc...

If you want to solve for parity, address the actual core issues and real reasons for lack of parity, instead of trying to bandaid parity and creating BIGGER problems because you diminish your bottom line and player base.

If someone can no longer play on my team, and I can't hire a replacement. I'm going to be pissed. If the only way for me to hire replacements is to fire more players and restructure a whole team for a stupid salary cap.. I am going to be pissed.

DO NOT socially engineer who I can play with. Do not force my team to shed players and become less competitive against teams who havent yet had to shed players because they are a 'one man gang'. .

Just STOP with this stuff. These have been colossally bad ideas Bort.

Originally posted by dbreeze
Bort & Co., I just don't think y'all are getting it. This is getting further and further away from becoming a realistic sim to enjoy building realistic players and focused on the accuracy of the game sim in simulating real game options and results. Where do you get the idea that the complexity "hardcore" players are looking for is in playing with finances, stadiums, or layers of unrealistic boosts or penalties to performance. Just give us an equal amount of resources to work with to start and let us apply our football knowledge to field a team of players and focus on game play decisions.
The perspective that those wanting more detailed control over actual game parameters(hardcore) should also be forced to accept more non-game related cruft to get onto the field and compete and those who don't accept the extra off-field work must not want a more detailed, realistic game experience tells me you just aren't getting it. I'M HERE TO PLAY FOOTBALL. All this extra stuff only needs to be developed as dictated by the core goal of reproducing an accurate game experience modeled after real American football. You guys are too much into the RPG aspects of the sim and are not focused on the accuracy of the actual player build and game play options. You'll be forever fighting the same problems until you adopt most of the same solutions found in real life. If you want to go to the Pros you must submit to a draft process or sit out for a length of time to obtain FA status to go where you want. I'd like to build players to only come and play for my own team but it's not realistic to American football. Why reinvent the wheel? Just mimic as closely as possible the core football game experience found in the real world and only use off-field non-game activities and choices to support the core experience as needed.
The balance of time spent trying to play football as GLB seems to think it should be experienced as opposed to being able to play something with a resemblance to the real life games is falling further and further towards learning GLBball and less and less towards being able to apply real football knowledge.
Anyone want to take over a Pro team? I can't just walk away from the players on the team but I just don't see this game going in a direction that I want to participate in anymore. A realistic American football sim focused on actual game play accuracy does not appear to be the goal here. Too much here is just pure fantasy with no resemblance to real life. Might as well play WoW or something.

This is exactly how I feel & so many others I know that play GLB. Very well stated. If they want to make this a WoW environment I will take my money elsewhere!

OK, I just read this page, so I'll stop commenting until I catch up with the entirety of the thread. My bad, mea culpa.

I'm with ya, I'm thinking of selling my Pro team as well.

Originally posted by Bort
Deterioration's main purpose was to not allow you to just buy everything and sit on it. I was figuring there'd be an "auto-referb" option for it so you don't have to think about it if you don't want to.

I don't mind the deterioration change, just needed to be more realistic. I posted 5-6 times asking about changing the % of "rot" per season. I agree facilities need to be "maintained", just not to the tune of ~8% per season. If the number-crunchers looked at a staggered "rot-rate", then it would make perfect sense. Not 8% year 1 = 8% year 10.

Originally posted by jbleich
So

Hardcore - All the proposed changes
Regular - current system
Casual - current casual system
Super Casual - Like Bort has going in Suggestions
Peewee - Current Peewee

That actually sounds nice because it gives a good blend of options for all types of owners....is this what you are looking at?

just what we need, more leagues, more teams, same amount of players...

these are awful band-aids

Originally posted by Bort

Originally posted by Bort
TBH I like the original plan + the morale bank idea the best. Luxury tax is good IMO, as it's a two fold thing: gives an incentive to maybe let some of the uber players go, and distributes some of the wealth to the teams who couldn't get those players.


You guys completely miss the point of a salary cap/revenue sharing. If a team sucks I'm not going to join that team no matter how much they pay. My players only join teams that won no less than 9 games in the previous season (unless we are talking peewee then honestly it doesn't matter a whole lot). Uber players won't go anywhere.

Originally posted by bort
Originally posted by Bort
Deterioration's main purpose was to not allow you to just buy everything and sit on it. I was figuring there'd be an "auto-referb" option for it so you don't have to think about it if you don't want to.


Sounds like I still need to use Quickbooks to make sure I have enough cash in the bank at the end of the year. Right now I just make sure my total cash is greater than my seasons player salaries.

Or maybe I should edit? Is this a football sim still, or a math sim?

Originally posted by ptompkins
Sounds like I still need to use Quickbooks to make sure I have enough cash in the bank at the end of the year. Right now I just make sure my total cash is greater than my seasons player salaries.

Hey I will design you an excel application that will be specifically designed for it... for a price of course. I mean I am a business.

Are these changes still planned for this upcoming offseason?