Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Bukowski
Right, that's what I'm saying.

It needs to be two-fold.

two fold but not nearly as equally as powerful tho...as that defender likely is getting a ton of plays and is actually a big part of most plays...while the elusive guys is more or so the change of pace/scat/3rd down back who touches the ball a couple times a game.

Originally posted by jrry32
Originally posted by jdbolick

Originally posted by David Stern


whaT? lol.... A juke is a simple move. .. Ugh, if you don't think the ability to juke someone is an inherent ability I don't think anyone can get through to you. Stop talking out of your ass
Let's not go there. I have to watch over a hundred games each season for my job. Most backs don't attempt jukes, and even fewer are actually competent at doing so.


Originally posted by jrry32


Agility and vision should give you the ability to do so without SAs because of your ability to make quick cuts and change your path causes defenders to lose their balance. If Power RBs can break tackles without SAs, why can't elusive RBs make defenders lose their balance without SAs?
Elusive HBs already force defenders to lose speed by making cuts. I don't know what is so difficult for you to understand about that. Again, please watch a punt return. The gunners will be flying down the field to close with the returner, then if the returner makes a significant cut, the gunners have to slow considerably and adjust their angle to pursue. This stuff already happens in the sim. As Deathblade said early on and I have repeated numerous times, the "fix" for agility-based running backs is simply to make the pathing better. Elusive /= faking, and I'm beyond tired of dishonest people pretending otherwise. Elusive means eluding defenders, which is what you do by making cuts and moving away from defenders. When those cuts are made, defenders already need comparable agility to mirror that movement or else they slow down. This stuff is already in there, the pathing just needs to be improved.


Jdbolick, you have completely dodged my post and posted the same thing that doesn't address what I have been saying at all every time. Stop posting that same comment.

Actually address what I am saying, do players in real life not lose their balance or fall when a player makes a quick cut or cutback?(don't lie, I have videos that show this exact thing happening)

Next question, does agility and vision not help you do this better and better?

Next question, shouldn't RBs with high agility and vision be able to cutback and make quick cuts incredibly well causing defenders to lose their balance or fall down?

Next question, is this not eluding the defender?

Next question, if a defender falls down did you not elude him successfully?

Next question, why can power RBs run over guys with pure strength if you elusive guys can't force people to lose their balance with pure agility?

Final question, how is labeling a RB an elusive RB not make him a faking RB when the Power RB is not labeled a Break Tackle RB and can still break tackles?

Anyone other than Bolick who disagrees with inherent agility want to answer these questions?

Originally posted by kurieg
Test it.

Right?

This is the best possible thing to test on the test server. A change that makes sense, is a small step, probably not too damn hard to code, and could have a real positive impact.

Here's a test, on a KR with 300+ vision.

Runs right into the defender.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=608209&pbp_id=3155804

Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by Bukowski

Right, that's what I'm saying.

It needs to be two-fold.

two fold but not nearly as equally as powerful tho...as that defender likely is getting a ton of plays and is actually a big part of most plays...while the elusive guys is more or so the change of pace/scat/3rd down back who touches the ball a couple times a game.

Why?

Why should a fake-out be less of a morale killer than a monster hit?

Because one player plays more than the other? I don't really see the logic in that.

Originally posted by blln4lyf
Yeah, it is. It also helps lower strength defenders fumble less, so please don't act like a 48-55 str defender with 70-75 carrying should be a fumble machine if he is used sparingly. Then again idk why we are even discussing this b.c if the "loss of balance" and pathing are actually adjusted we would get just this anyway.

I don't know what you mean exactly by fumble machine.

I think there fumble % should be significantly higher than a power backs given equal energy/morale etc.

That's part of high risk/high reward.

Originally posted by jrry32
Jdbolick, you have completely dodged my post and posted the same thing that doesn't address what I have been saying at all every time. Stop posting that same comment.
The mind-boggling thing is that I have addressed your post again and again, you just keep ignoring it because you don't like the answer.

Originally posted by
Next question, shouldn't RBs with high agility and vision be able to cutback and make quick cuts incredibly well causing defenders to lose their balance or fall down?
THAT IS ALREADY WHAT HAPPENS IN THE CURRENT SIM. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT THAT BEFORE IT SINKS IN? Seriously, what the fuck are you not understanding? When a punt returner is coming upfield and a defender is closing in, that returner sometimes takes an angle to cut back in the other direction. The defender then slows down or even stops to mirror that movement, the degree of speed lost depending upon the angle and the defender's agility.

Moreover, the ability to create space by changing directions IS NOT A FAKE. Please stop referring to it as a fake, BECAUSE IT IS NOT A FAKE. Faking is doing a specific move to cause the defender to pause in place. Making a cut is not executing a fake.

Originally posted by
Next question, if a defender falls down did you not elude him successfully?
If it did we wouldn't have the threads I mentioned complaining about faked defenders making tackles.

Originally posted by
Next question, why can power RBs run over guys with pure strength if you elusive guys can't force people to lose their balance with pure agility?
Because faking is a specific skill, and not all elusive backs attempt fakes. Elusive running means to elude defenders by moving away from them. Doing so at severe angles can cause the defender to slow down or stop if they have insufficient agility to mirror the movement, both in real life AND IN GLB.

Originally posted by
Final question, how is labeling a RB an elusive RB not make him a faking RB when the Power RB is not labeled a Break Tackle RB and can still break tackles?
I don't know why you pretend that you have never watched football before, but let's use your beloved Gators as an example. Emmanuel Moody is an elusive-type running back, but he generally does not try to fake defenders. He tries to run away from them and use cuts to get downfield. Being elusive and using fakes ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS.

Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by Bukowski

Right, that's what I'm saying.

It needs to be two-fold.

two fold but not nearly as equally as powerful tho...as that defender likely is getting a ton of plays and is actually a big part of most plays...while the elusive guys is more or so the change of pace/scat/3rd down back who touches the ball a couple times a game.

Agreed. It shouldn't be less of a morale killer but with the strength on the HB being low the adjustment would make it less of one.

Originally posted by Deathblade
...wat?

IF you have a successful back, and you take vision over 40, could have used those sp's elsewhere The only reason to take it to 40 is for the sym.

clearly more vision needs to give something extra to the hb's. Bc currently it is build suicide. How many times do people have to say it. Actually I don't even give a fuck, every hb on the teams I run are barely 40 vision, and they are arguably the best backs in the game. Don't fix it, I will just pound the hell outta these guys, and win a few more trophies. Lower vision hb's make being an oc pretty damn easy.

Wanna LOL???
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=918584

Watch tuck fulane
40.9 vision 66 agility. 43 carries 34 broken tackles. vs 6-9 higher leveled defenders. Just added him. I don't care what direction the sim goes, I am going to play it for what it is.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Here's a test, on a KR with 300+ vision.

Runs right into the defender.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=608209&pbp_id=3155804

But we've also seen lots of people run away from defenders, right? I mean, I have.

Do you think I'm claiming that pathing isn't fucked up? I'm not. Fix that, too, imo.

But it's completely fucking stupid that you juke/head fake someone and then run through them.

Originally posted by kurieg
Originally posted by Phil Jackson

HB vision = fail right now though. That needs to be addressed before either of these would work.

Not sure exactly what you mean here. HB Vision clearly picks up threats. Elusive running puts huge radii around them. That all happens in the sim now. Keeping a threat value on a faked defender could be tested with nothing else done.

The problem is higher vision/elusive running doesn't actually help..it does the opposite actually.

Originally posted by David Stern
IF you have a successful back, and you take vision over 40, could have used those sp's elsewhere The only reason to take it to 40 is for the sym.

clearly more vision needs to give something extra to the hb's. Bc currently it is build suicide. How many times do people have to say it. Actually I don't even give a fuck, every hb on the teams I run are barely 40 vision, and they are arguably the best backs in the game. Don't fix it, I will just pound the hell outta these guys, and win a few more trophies. Lower vision hb's make being an oc pretty damn easy.

Wanna LOL???
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=918584

Watch tuck fulane
40.9 vision 66 agility. 43 carries 34 broken tackles. vs 6-9 higher leveled defenders. Just added him. I don't care what direction the sim goes, I am going to play it for what it is.

He quoted a post that said "fix pathing", and said it doesn't matter if you don't fix vision.

You don't see how this is retarded?

Originally posted by blln4lyf
Originally posted by kurieg

Originally posted by Phil Jackson


HB vision = fail right now though. That needs to be addressed before either of these would work.

Not sure exactly what you mean here. HB Vision clearly picks up threats. Elusive running puts huge radii around them. That all happens in the sim now. Keeping a threat value on a faked defender could be tested with nothing else done.

The problem is higher vision/elusive running doesn't actually help..it does the opposite actually.

Yeah, that's what I said too.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Here's a test, on a KR with 300+ vision.

Runs right into the defender.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=608209&pbp_id=3155804

You are just supporting what I said earlier and what you said "wat?" to.....

Originally posted by Phil Jackson
You are just supporting what I said earlier and what you said "wat?" to.....

I said wat because your logic was retarded.

Originally posted by Deathblade
He quoted a post that said "fix pathing", and said it doesn't matter if you don't fix vision.

You don't see how this is retarded?

Path decisions aren't based off of vision?

EDIT: And I'm really fucking curious how you get away with saying retard and retarded so much. I got a 3 day ban for that same thing....