Thread has been read through and ideas have been compiled.
Will be reviewing them and further narrowing.
Will be reviewing them and further narrowing.
jprietman
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
1. What levels do you use to divide players up? How do you choose the draft order of 160+ teams at a level that are in 5 different leagues?
2. Will the team your friends have players on have a spot for you? They aren't going to have a choice of who drafts them. If you have free agency after 1 season, what prevents all the good players from leaving bad teams after 1 season?
3. What if you don't even end up in the same league as your friends? There will probably be 5 to 6 leagues drafting. You probably would only have a 10% chance of being on a team that played against a team your friend was on.
4. Only if the owner who drafted them is willing to trade them.
5. This part sucks. What levels are we talking about? I have to spend 1 out of every 2 or 3 seasons with my players on the bench and playing special teams only?
Now here are other problems
Players are playing around the world and in different time zones.
When do you conduct the draft?
How do you seed a draft when teams drafting won't all be from the same league?
How long will the draft take and how long do teams have to pick?
How do you compensate an owner who drafts a player, then that player is retired because agent is mad he isn't going to team he wanted to go to?
What happens when your #1 pick decides he is going to take off all his equipment and demand a trade?
1. The exact levels would be determined later on, of course. My suggestion doesn't really include math. It's more about the concept. About the draft order thing... I didn't mean to make you think that there were only 5 leagues. There will be MANY leagues. Not so many league LEVELS. Draft order would be a simple matter of taking the last season's regular season record and reversing it, with tiebreakers included.
2. What's the status quo like? Seems to me that leaving teams for good teams is already the situation in place. But when a bad team drafts good players, and does not have automatic promotion/advancement, they have no choice but to improve their internal structure to try and retain those good players. If they still lose those players, they would get compensatory selections in the next draft, so they can at least fill their roster. Good players have more of an incentive to stay on bad teams because a.) Bad teams have a better chance to improve for the following season, b.) If the team owner gives up, he will likely be replaced by a GOOD owner. Players may still leave for their friends teams, but due to the incentives I described, at least it won't be as likely.
3. I would suppose players could checkmark the league drafts they would be declaring for. If you only want to play in the Western Europe league, then declare for only the Western Europe draft. Just be aware that if you don't get drafted into that league, there will be a penalty. I would think undrafteds would have a salary limit that is significantly lower than draftees.
4. Yes, that is correct. I don't see a problem with it though. If you are interested in only playing with your friends, sign a one-season rookie contract instead of a multi-season rookie contract, and request a trade. If you can't get a trade, play out your one season. But one thing we've learned from 15 seasons in this game is that GLB owners are much more accomodating to their players' wishes than real owners are.
5. Well, that happens if your player can't outperform the starter (which is likely in most cases). Of course you'll still play (and not only on special teams). And if you can actually contribute, you'll see more playing time as a rookie than other rookies. This is part of why I think it would counter slow-building. Other than that, why should we be so selfish as to completely refuse anything but being a starter? Be a bench player for a season (or two) and take over when you're good and ready. This will bring satisfaction to a wider range of players, as everybody will have their time to start, and everybody will pay their dues to get there.
When do you conduct the draft?
Are people constantly complaining about the offseason being too long? Now it's the perfect size. While Bort is working on next seasons changes, the rest of us are drafting players and negotiating our contracts.
How do you seed a draft when teams drafting won't all be from the same league?
Every league has their own draft, and all the players who are advancing will declare for whichever drafts they want to play in.
How long will the draft take and how long do teams have to pick?
I imagine this would work a lot like fantasy football. There would be a live draft and those who cannot make it can have it automated for them by setting up their draft board ahead of time. If they don't want to do any scouting or create any draft boards, players can be rated based on performance, just like they currently are for the MVP race. All owners would have to do then is decide and set which football positions would be their priority. As for your question of exactly how long it should take, I obviously don't have the authority to decide the specifics. That should be debated publicly.
How do you compensate an owner who drafts a player, then that player is retired because agent is mad he isn't going to team he wanted to go to?
A compensatory pick for next season OR the owner could just opt to sign an undrafted. It would be one or the other though. That decision will depend on how badly the owner needs to fill out their roster.
What happens when your #1 pick decides he is going to take off all his equipment and demand a trade?
Then trade him. Or don't play him. Sign an undrafted to take his spot while he "holds out". Tell him, if he wears his equipment he will get playing time. Or release him. You have options. I don't know, man. If you were an owner and you were faced with a difficult decision, what would YOU do? By the way, I've also suggested in the past, an agent rating system, where agents can have a rating of how troublesome or helpful they are. In general, I think players and owners alike WANT to be a good sport. Owners these days tend to just go ahead and do whatever the player wants, and players these days often accept situations that aren't always completely desirable. It used to be much worse in the past.
1. What levels do you use to divide players up? How do you choose the draft order of 160+ teams at a level that are in 5 different leagues?
2. Will the team your friends have players on have a spot for you? They aren't going to have a choice of who drafts them. If you have free agency after 1 season, what prevents all the good players from leaving bad teams after 1 season?
3. What if you don't even end up in the same league as your friends? There will probably be 5 to 6 leagues drafting. You probably would only have a 10% chance of being on a team that played against a team your friend was on.
4. Only if the owner who drafted them is willing to trade them.
5. This part sucks. What levels are we talking about? I have to spend 1 out of every 2 or 3 seasons with my players on the bench and playing special teams only?
Now here are other problems
Players are playing around the world and in different time zones.
When do you conduct the draft?
How do you seed a draft when teams drafting won't all be from the same league?
How long will the draft take and how long do teams have to pick?
How do you compensate an owner who drafts a player, then that player is retired because agent is mad he isn't going to team he wanted to go to?
What happens when your #1 pick decides he is going to take off all his equipment and demand a trade?
1. The exact levels would be determined later on, of course. My suggestion doesn't really include math. It's more about the concept. About the draft order thing... I didn't mean to make you think that there were only 5 leagues. There will be MANY leagues. Not so many league LEVELS. Draft order would be a simple matter of taking the last season's regular season record and reversing it, with tiebreakers included.
2. What's the status quo like? Seems to me that leaving teams for good teams is already the situation in place. But when a bad team drafts good players, and does not have automatic promotion/advancement, they have no choice but to improve their internal structure to try and retain those good players. If they still lose those players, they would get compensatory selections in the next draft, so they can at least fill their roster. Good players have more of an incentive to stay on bad teams because a.) Bad teams have a better chance to improve for the following season, b.) If the team owner gives up, he will likely be replaced by a GOOD owner. Players may still leave for their friends teams, but due to the incentives I described, at least it won't be as likely.
3. I would suppose players could checkmark the league drafts they would be declaring for. If you only want to play in the Western Europe league, then declare for only the Western Europe draft. Just be aware that if you don't get drafted into that league, there will be a penalty. I would think undrafteds would have a salary limit that is significantly lower than draftees.
4. Yes, that is correct. I don't see a problem with it though. If you are interested in only playing with your friends, sign a one-season rookie contract instead of a multi-season rookie contract, and request a trade. If you can't get a trade, play out your one season. But one thing we've learned from 15 seasons in this game is that GLB owners are much more accomodating to their players' wishes than real owners are.
5. Well, that happens if your player can't outperform the starter (which is likely in most cases). Of course you'll still play (and not only on special teams). And if you can actually contribute, you'll see more playing time as a rookie than other rookies. This is part of why I think it would counter slow-building. Other than that, why should we be so selfish as to completely refuse anything but being a starter? Be a bench player for a season (or two) and take over when you're good and ready. This will bring satisfaction to a wider range of players, as everybody will have their time to start, and everybody will pay their dues to get there.
When do you conduct the draft?
Are people constantly complaining about the offseason being too long? Now it's the perfect size. While Bort is working on next seasons changes, the rest of us are drafting players and negotiating our contracts.
How do you seed a draft when teams drafting won't all be from the same league?
Every league has their own draft, and all the players who are advancing will declare for whichever drafts they want to play in.
How long will the draft take and how long do teams have to pick?
I imagine this would work a lot like fantasy football. There would be a live draft and those who cannot make it can have it automated for them by setting up their draft board ahead of time. If they don't want to do any scouting or create any draft boards, players can be rated based on performance, just like they currently are for the MVP race. All owners would have to do then is decide and set which football positions would be their priority. As for your question of exactly how long it should take, I obviously don't have the authority to decide the specifics. That should be debated publicly.
How do you compensate an owner who drafts a player, then that player is retired because agent is mad he isn't going to team he wanted to go to?
A compensatory pick for next season OR the owner could just opt to sign an undrafted. It would be one or the other though. That decision will depend on how badly the owner needs to fill out their roster.
What happens when your #1 pick decides he is going to take off all his equipment and demand a trade?
Then trade him. Or don't play him. Sign an undrafted to take his spot while he "holds out". Tell him, if he wears his equipment he will get playing time. Or release him. You have options. I don't know, man. If you were an owner and you were faced with a difficult decision, what would YOU do? By the way, I've also suggested in the past, an agent rating system, where agents can have a rating of how troublesome or helpful they are. In general, I think players and owners alike WANT to be a good sport. Owners these days tend to just go ahead and do whatever the player wants, and players these days often accept situations that aren't always completely desirable. It used to be much worse in the past.
jprietman
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I appreciate that my suggestion has been read by many and I've gotten feedback....
I just want to iterate one thing though...
My suggestion isn't about a draft. It's about stopping team promotion, and forcing player promotion. The draft is just an idea that becomes possible as a byproduct of my suggestion.
I would be very excited to see people focusing less on the "draft" part of my suggestion, and more toward what possibilities you could have by keeping teams in their leagues, and promoting PLAYERS to higher leagues when they play a certain amount of time.
I just want to iterate one thing though...
My suggestion isn't about a draft. It's about stopping team promotion, and forcing player promotion. The draft is just an idea that becomes possible as a byproduct of my suggestion.
I would be very excited to see people focusing less on the "draft" part of my suggestion, and more toward what possibilities you could have by keeping teams in their leagues, and promoting PLAYERS to higher leagues when they play a certain amount of time.
Edited by jprietman on Jun 17, 2010 01:21:24
jprietman
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Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
jprietman-
While having 3 tiers with drafts sounds very nice, in reality it won't work. If you are talking about anything bigger than a 10-15 level advantage in GLB, you are basically talking about a 150-0 game at least. GLB players are not build in such a way that large level discrepancies can exist on the same teams in competitive leagues. The cap system (which is doing a great job as is tbh) is evidence that parity exists as a result of more caps, not less.
Now if the entended plateau was implimented, I could see a L62+ draft working, but getting official mandatory peewee and minor league drafts going is simply a pipedream. And even in the high leagues, you'd basically have to auto-assign rookie eligible players to one of the 8 (or 4 or however many) pro leagues, and have each league draft be separate, with players allowed to go wherever after their rookie season.
Still drafts in general would need an entire new interface, and would be a pain in the ass for players and owners alike. I know it sounds cool, but no owner wants to look through 300 builds and make a draft board out of them, and no player wants to be suck on some random team for a season.
Not a viable solution imho.
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1 WL
4 Pro
8 or 16 AAA
and caps up to maybe L52 or L56
Would be a better solution to league structure than some zany draft idea I think.
All teams would have a good mix of levels within their roster, so it wouldn't be 150-0. Now one team may decide not to draft young players, and would try to get a bunch of high level players at all depth positions, but what happens when those players advance to the next league? The former team is in TROUBLE. Sure, they'll probably get a for-sure trophy for that season. Then they'd probably end up in a real mess. Let's also not forget that we have a salary cap now. Teams will need a certain amount of young players just to stay under the cap.
I hear what you're saying about it being a pain in the ass to look through 300 builds and creating a draft board. But...
1. Owners would hire scouts to do some of this, and I imagine they'd be doing it all season long. The teams that put in the work will reap the benefits of said work, just like they currently do with Advanced AI.
2. Owners would have the option to automate the whole thing. (see my post, replying to Rage Kinard)
3. Something needs to be done about players being judged by their builds rather than their performance. Right now, slowbuilding players are lusted after because when they all hit level 60+ they become supermen and it's the only way to win a World League trophy. In my system, they wouldn't be lusted after because they need to be able to contribute right away, and if they can't contribute, they will see less playing time. Players will still be built INTELLIGENTLY, but they need to be able to perform some basic functions right away, or they could miss out on some valuable development.
Also, there would be no Pee Wee draft. There's no point in creating a draft when all the players coming in are level 1. Let level 1 players play for whatever Pee Wee team they want. (Rage Kinard, I think if you REALLY wanted to field a team comprised of only your friends, you should own a Pee Wee team. That would definitely be the easiest way to get that done.)
jprietman-
While having 3 tiers with drafts sounds very nice, in reality it won't work. If you are talking about anything bigger than a 10-15 level advantage in GLB, you are basically talking about a 150-0 game at least. GLB players are not build in such a way that large level discrepancies can exist on the same teams in competitive leagues. The cap system (which is doing a great job as is tbh) is evidence that parity exists as a result of more caps, not less.
Now if the entended plateau was implimented, I could see a L62+ draft working, but getting official mandatory peewee and minor league drafts going is simply a pipedream. And even in the high leagues, you'd basically have to auto-assign rookie eligible players to one of the 8 (or 4 or however many) pro leagues, and have each league draft be separate, with players allowed to go wherever after their rookie season.
Still drafts in general would need an entire new interface, and would be a pain in the ass for players and owners alike. I know it sounds cool, but no owner wants to look through 300 builds and make a draft board out of them, and no player wants to be suck on some random team for a season.
Not a viable solution imho.
-----
1 WL
4 Pro
8 or 16 AAA
and caps up to maybe L52 or L56
Would be a better solution to league structure than some zany draft idea I think.
All teams would have a good mix of levels within their roster, so it wouldn't be 150-0. Now one team may decide not to draft young players, and would try to get a bunch of high level players at all depth positions, but what happens when those players advance to the next league? The former team is in TROUBLE. Sure, they'll probably get a for-sure trophy for that season. Then they'd probably end up in a real mess. Let's also not forget that we have a salary cap now. Teams will need a certain amount of young players just to stay under the cap.
I hear what you're saying about it being a pain in the ass to look through 300 builds and creating a draft board. But...
1. Owners would hire scouts to do some of this, and I imagine they'd be doing it all season long. The teams that put in the work will reap the benefits of said work, just like they currently do with Advanced AI.
2. Owners would have the option to automate the whole thing. (see my post, replying to Rage Kinard)
3. Something needs to be done about players being judged by their builds rather than their performance. Right now, slowbuilding players are lusted after because when they all hit level 60+ they become supermen and it's the only way to win a World League trophy. In my system, they wouldn't be lusted after because they need to be able to contribute right away, and if they can't contribute, they will see less playing time. Players will still be built INTELLIGENTLY, but they need to be able to perform some basic functions right away, or they could miss out on some valuable development.
Also, there would be no Pee Wee draft. There's no point in creating a draft when all the players coming in are level 1. Let level 1 players play for whatever Pee Wee team they want. (Rage Kinard, I think if you REALLY wanted to field a team comprised of only your friends, you should own a Pee Wee team. That would definitely be the easiest way to get that done.)
Edited by jprietman on Jun 17, 2010 01:42:05
Edited by jprietman on Jun 17, 2010 01:36:30
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by jprietman
My suggestion isn't about a draft. It's about stopping team promotion, and forcing player promotion. The draft is just an idea that becomes possible as a byproduct of my suggestion.
A player promotion system with no draft is only going to be more beneficial for the bigger networks.
Agent A owns a WL team.
Agents B & C own a Pro teams.
Agents D&E own AAA teams.
Agents G & H own AA teams.
then move on down the line. Really big networks may have 4 or 5 teams at the bottom.
Then the players "promote" but they would stay within the same network. Basically, they would exist as the same team with a different team name and owner.
My suggestion isn't about a draft. It's about stopping team promotion, and forcing player promotion. The draft is just an idea that becomes possible as a byproduct of my suggestion.
A player promotion system with no draft is only going to be more beneficial for the bigger networks.
Agent A owns a WL team.
Agents B & C own a Pro teams.
Agents D&E own AAA teams.
Agents G & H own AA teams.
then move on down the line. Really big networks may have 4 or 5 teams at the bottom.
Then the players "promote" but they would stay within the same network. Basically, they would exist as the same team with a different team name and owner.
AngryDragon
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Here is some food for thought.
There are a lot of young teams that started last season that got promoted to an inappropriate league. I suspect a small percent will give up and quit without saying anything. I know this because I am part of one of them teams. The owner already gave up and has not logged in. I had high hopes for him because he was so excited about this game last season.
Back to my point. lol The point is that something needs to be done sooner than later. This game is in danger of losing large quantities of new agents. The documentation is outdated due to current changes and the league structure is unforgiving to young agents that don't fully grasp the game yet. They buy a team and start out at level 1. The next season they are in a level 18 or 22 league and they get murdered.
I have told more than one agent that good changes are coming because I assumed this thread was being read and a plan was already in the works. I honestly don't know if some agents can take another season of this mess. This is the hottest issue that GLB currently has. It needs to be at the top of the list and nothing else needs to be addressed until this is complete. It is as important as a down server. Coaches and iPhone apps will not prevent agents from spending their money elsewhere but a solution to this problem will.
There are a lot of young teams that started last season that got promoted to an inappropriate league. I suspect a small percent will give up and quit without saying anything. I know this because I am part of one of them teams. The owner already gave up and has not logged in. I had high hopes for him because he was so excited about this game last season.
Back to my point. lol The point is that something needs to be done sooner than later. This game is in danger of losing large quantities of new agents. The documentation is outdated due to current changes and the league structure is unforgiving to young agents that don't fully grasp the game yet. They buy a team and start out at level 1. The next season they are in a level 18 or 22 league and they get murdered.
I have told more than one agent that good changes are coming because I assumed this thread was being read and a plan was already in the works. I honestly don't know if some agents can take another season of this mess. This is the hottest issue that GLB currently has. It needs to be at the top of the list and nothing else needs to be addressed until this is complete. It is as important as a down server. Coaches and iPhone apps will not prevent agents from spending their money elsewhere but a solution to this problem will.
Originally posted by tuba_samurai
Well, for one thing you are taking what i said out of context. Cubs said that bort was hesitant to make any drastic changes, at which point i literally laughed out loud in real life.
Now you are whining about how bort and co. have no plans to change league structure and aren't interested in listening to the idea's of the userbase in a thread created by the co-creator of the game that is filled with ideas from the userbase that DD is currently reading and narrowing down ideas from.
Now, by all means, continue whining.
Why is it when anyone goes against what somebody does it is considered whining. Why can't you just be more professional and say I disagree. Your juvenile approach to people is rather disdaining. I was also talking about the past, not the present. So please read and then comprehend what you read before you reply.
Well, for one thing you are taking what i said out of context. Cubs said that bort was hesitant to make any drastic changes, at which point i literally laughed out loud in real life.
Now you are whining about how bort and co. have no plans to change league structure and aren't interested in listening to the idea's of the userbase in a thread created by the co-creator of the game that is filled with ideas from the userbase that DD is currently reading and narrowing down ideas from.
Now, by all means, continue whining.
Why is it when anyone goes against what somebody does it is considered whining. Why can't you just be more professional and say I disagree. Your juvenile approach to people is rather disdaining. I was also talking about the past, not the present. So please read and then comprehend what you read before you reply.
Rage Kinard
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Here is an idea
As teams move through the minors they don't get bumped up levels. They all just move up based on what level cap they should be at if people boosted.
So a team would go
Season 1 Level 4
Season 2 Level 14
Season 3 Level 22
Season 4 Level 31
Season 5 Level 40
Season 6 Level 48
Season 7 AA
You don't bump teams up in levels. Teams can not ask to be demoted or not promoted because they don't boost.
What you do is re-organize leagues within the levels based on record each season.
So let's say you have 8 leagues in level 4 cap.
The top 4 teams from each league are in Level 14 Gold.
The 2nd 4 teams from each league are in Level 14 Silver.
The other 8 teams from each league that made the playoffs are in Level 14 Copper.
Then you put the rest in regular level 14 leagues.
Make it so that Gold, Silver, Copper, can have higher ticket sales, concession sales, (Gold higher than Silver. Silver higher than Copper. Copper higher than regular). Also have a decent fan support floor based on which tier your team is in.
So a team could go from Gold 14 one season to regular 22 the next, but wouldn't be punished with a crappy fan support because they were in the toughest league the previous season.
As teams move through the minors they don't get bumped up levels. They all just move up based on what level cap they should be at if people boosted.
So a team would go
Season 1 Level 4
Season 2 Level 14
Season 3 Level 22
Season 4 Level 31
Season 5 Level 40
Season 6 Level 48
Season 7 AA
You don't bump teams up in levels. Teams can not ask to be demoted or not promoted because they don't boost.
What you do is re-organize leagues within the levels based on record each season.
So let's say you have 8 leagues in level 4 cap.
The top 4 teams from each league are in Level 14 Gold.
The 2nd 4 teams from each league are in Level 14 Silver.
The other 8 teams from each league that made the playoffs are in Level 14 Copper.
Then you put the rest in regular level 14 leagues.
Make it so that Gold, Silver, Copper, can have higher ticket sales, concession sales, (Gold higher than Silver. Silver higher than Copper. Copper higher than regular). Also have a decent fan support floor based on which tier your team is in.
So a team could go from Gold 14 one season to regular 22 the next, but wouldn't be punished with a crappy fan support because they were in the toughest league the previous season.
cubshater2008
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Originally posted by tuba_samurai
Originally posted by Mauler
This may be off topic, but since you brought it up please name these drastic changes that Bort made to fix the problems with League structuring which I have always considered the major problem. People want competition, not blow outs. People want a sim that is more like RL football & works accordingly, not a bobblehead day for player morale. Any idea that has made sense to the general populous is totally ignored so I agree with Cubshater2008 100%. If you don't think that is true have a vote on implementing Coaches & see which way people vote. I didn't think so.......point proven!
Well, for one thing you are taking what i said out of context. Cubs said that bort was hesitant to make any drastic changes, at which point i literally laughed out loud in real life.
Now you are whining about how bort and co. have no plans to change league structure and aren't interested in listening to the idea's of the userbase in a thread created by the co-creator of the game that is filled with ideas from the userbase that DD is currently reading and narrowing down ideas from.
Now, by all means, continue whining.
Oh, right, sorry, I should refine my statement.
Bort is hesitant to make any drastic changes that actually fix what is broken. The training system wasn't broken, finances weren't broken, so was change really needed?
And then with our biggest issues - a unrealistic sim and poor league structure - he hasn't made any wholescale changes, just little patches that haven't come close to fixing the problem.
Originally posted by Mauler
This may be off topic, but since you brought it up please name these drastic changes that Bort made to fix the problems with League structuring which I have always considered the major problem. People want competition, not blow outs. People want a sim that is more like RL football & works accordingly, not a bobblehead day for player morale. Any idea that has made sense to the general populous is totally ignored so I agree with Cubshater2008 100%. If you don't think that is true have a vote on implementing Coaches & see which way people vote. I didn't think so.......point proven!
Well, for one thing you are taking what i said out of context. Cubs said that bort was hesitant to make any drastic changes, at which point i literally laughed out loud in real life.
Now you are whining about how bort and co. have no plans to change league structure and aren't interested in listening to the idea's of the userbase in a thread created by the co-creator of the game that is filled with ideas from the userbase that DD is currently reading and narrowing down ideas from.
Now, by all means, continue whining.
Oh, right, sorry, I should refine my statement.
Bort is hesitant to make any drastic changes that actually fix what is broken. The training system wasn't broken, finances weren't broken, so was change really needed?
And then with our biggest issues - a unrealistic sim and poor league structure - he hasn't made any wholescale changes, just little patches that haven't come close to fixing the problem.
cubshater2008
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Originally posted by Mauler
Originally posted by tuba_samurai
Well, for one thing you are taking what i said out of context. Cubs said that bort was hesitant to make any drastic changes, at which point i literally laughed out loud in real life.
Now you are whining about how bort and co. have no plans to change league structure and aren't interested in listening to the idea's of the userbase in a thread created by the co-creator of the game that is filled with ideas from the userbase that DD is currently reading and narrowing down ideas from.
Now, by all means, continue whining.
Why is it when anyone goes against what somebody does it is considered whining. Why can't you just be more professional and say I disagree. Your juvenile approach to people is rather disdaining. I was also talking about the past, not the present. So please read and then comprehend what you read before you reply.
And this too, tuba. Learn how to take criticism in a way where you don't go out of your way to offend the other party. I was never whining, merely throwing out statements about how the game has been run. Just because you are a moderator and are paid by Bort doesn't mean you have to insult every person who says something negative about him and the game.
Originally posted by tuba_samurai
Well, for one thing you are taking what i said out of context. Cubs said that bort was hesitant to make any drastic changes, at which point i literally laughed out loud in real life.
Now you are whining about how bort and co. have no plans to change league structure and aren't interested in listening to the idea's of the userbase in a thread created by the co-creator of the game that is filled with ideas from the userbase that DD is currently reading and narrowing down ideas from.
Now, by all means, continue whining.
Why is it when anyone goes against what somebody does it is considered whining. Why can't you just be more professional and say I disagree. Your juvenile approach to people is rather disdaining. I was also talking about the past, not the present. So please read and then comprehend what you read before you reply.
And this too, tuba. Learn how to take criticism in a way where you don't go out of your way to offend the other party. I was never whining, merely throwing out statements about how the game has been run. Just because you are a moderator and are paid by Bort doesn't mean you have to insult every person who says something negative about him and the game.
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by jprietman
All teams would have a good mix of levels within their roster, so it wouldn't be 150-0. Now one team may decide not to draft young players, and would try to get a bunch of high level players at all depth positions, but what happens when those players advance to the next league? The former team is in TROUBLE. Sure, they'll probably get a for-sure trophy for that season. Then they'd probably end up in a real mess. Let's also not forget that we have a salary cap now. Teams will need a certain amount of young players just to stay under the cap.
I hear what you're saying about it being a pain in the ass to look through 300 builds and creating a draft board. But...
1. Owners would hire scouts to do some of this, and I imagine they'd be doing it all season long. The teams that put in the work will reap the benefits of said work, just like they currently do with Advanced AI.
2. Owners would have the option to automate the whole thing. (see my post, replying to Rage Kinard)
3. Something needs to be done about players being judged by their builds rather than their performance. Right now, slowbuilding players are lusted after because when they all hit level 60+ they become supermen and it's the only way to win a World League trophy. In my system, they wouldn't be lusted after because they need to be able to contribute right away, and if they can't contribute, they will see less playing time. Players will still be built INTELLIGENTLY, but they need to be able to perform some basic functions right away, or they could miss out on some valuable development.
Also, there would be no Pee Wee draft. There's no point in creating a draft when all the players coming in are level 1. Let level 1 players play for whatever Pee Wee team they want. (Rage Kinard, I think if you REALLY wanted to field a team comprised of only your friends, you should own a Pee Wee team. That would definitely be the easiest way to get that done.)
No... Seriously players who are 20 levels lower (L25 w/ L45) cannot compete with the higher level guys. The salary cap, cannot (and will not) work the way you think it will. Besides, at lower levels it won't even look like football. When the higher leveled guy is ont he field he plays great, but when the lower leveled guy is on the field he will suck. It'd be stupid to have both teams have 50% of their rosters which cannot compete against the other 50%. A L45 WR on a streak gets a TD on a L25 CB every single time. This game was not designed such that high level gaps can compete against each other plain and simple.
1. It will be just as difficult to hire a scout that's worth a damn as it currently is to get an OC/DC that's worth a damn. It will be impossible for the average GLB owner to find even 1 guy to help him scout in a helpful manner. Fact.
2. Auto-mating the whole process would just be a way to ensure that your team is not as good as it could be. Its like telling teams once the DPC came out that they don't have to use it, so it won't be a huge time sink. To be competitive teams will have to rank and draft players.
3. This will never happen. Slow-build players still play very well btw, but the whole "I want peeps to be judged by their production rather than their builds" is a concept that doesn't really work in GLB, as production tends to be much more subjective than a build.
While I bow down to the thought you put behind your idea, I strongly contend that you are trying to make GLB into something that it's not. A large incentive for being an owner is the ability to move up the ladder with your team and your buddies. If you take that away, VERY FEW people will want to own a minor league team. Also making each cap MUCH bigger would have horrible effects on competition (doing the opposite of what we are trying to fix here).
imo.
All teams would have a good mix of levels within their roster, so it wouldn't be 150-0. Now one team may decide not to draft young players, and would try to get a bunch of high level players at all depth positions, but what happens when those players advance to the next league? The former team is in TROUBLE. Sure, they'll probably get a for-sure trophy for that season. Then they'd probably end up in a real mess. Let's also not forget that we have a salary cap now. Teams will need a certain amount of young players just to stay under the cap.
I hear what you're saying about it being a pain in the ass to look through 300 builds and creating a draft board. But...
1. Owners would hire scouts to do some of this, and I imagine they'd be doing it all season long. The teams that put in the work will reap the benefits of said work, just like they currently do with Advanced AI.
2. Owners would have the option to automate the whole thing. (see my post, replying to Rage Kinard)
3. Something needs to be done about players being judged by their builds rather than their performance. Right now, slowbuilding players are lusted after because when they all hit level 60+ they become supermen and it's the only way to win a World League trophy. In my system, they wouldn't be lusted after because they need to be able to contribute right away, and if they can't contribute, they will see less playing time. Players will still be built INTELLIGENTLY, but they need to be able to perform some basic functions right away, or they could miss out on some valuable development.
Also, there would be no Pee Wee draft. There's no point in creating a draft when all the players coming in are level 1. Let level 1 players play for whatever Pee Wee team they want. (Rage Kinard, I think if you REALLY wanted to field a team comprised of only your friends, you should own a Pee Wee team. That would definitely be the easiest way to get that done.)
No... Seriously players who are 20 levels lower (L25 w/ L45) cannot compete with the higher level guys. The salary cap, cannot (and will not) work the way you think it will. Besides, at lower levels it won't even look like football. When the higher leveled guy is ont he field he plays great, but when the lower leveled guy is on the field he will suck. It'd be stupid to have both teams have 50% of their rosters which cannot compete against the other 50%. A L45 WR on a streak gets a TD on a L25 CB every single time. This game was not designed such that high level gaps can compete against each other plain and simple.
1. It will be just as difficult to hire a scout that's worth a damn as it currently is to get an OC/DC that's worth a damn. It will be impossible for the average GLB owner to find even 1 guy to help him scout in a helpful manner. Fact.
2. Auto-mating the whole process would just be a way to ensure that your team is not as good as it could be. Its like telling teams once the DPC came out that they don't have to use it, so it won't be a huge time sink. To be competitive teams will have to rank and draft players.
3. This will never happen. Slow-build players still play very well btw, but the whole "I want peeps to be judged by their production rather than their builds" is a concept that doesn't really work in GLB, as production tends to be much more subjective than a build.
While I bow down to the thought you put behind your idea, I strongly contend that you are trying to make GLB into something that it's not. A large incentive for being an owner is the ability to move up the ladder with your team and your buddies. If you take that away, VERY FEW people will want to own a minor league team. Also making each cap MUCH bigger would have horrible effects on competition (doing the opposite of what we are trying to fix here).
imo.
notthegint
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Here is an idea
As teams move through the minors they don't get bumped up levels. They all just move up based on what level cap they should be at if people boosted.
So a team would go
Season 1 Level 4
Season 2 Level 14
Season 3 Level 22
Season 4 Level 31
Season 5 Level 40
Season 6 Level 48
Season 7 AA
You don't bump teams up in levels. Teams can not ask to be demoted or not promoted because they don't boost.
What you do is re-organize leagues within the levels based on record each season.
So let's say you have 8 leagues in level 4 cap.
The top 4 teams from each league are in Level 14 Gold.
The 2nd 4 teams from each league are in Level 14 Silver.
The other 8 teams from each league that made the playoffs are in Level 14 Copper.
Then you put the rest in regular level 14 leagues.
Make it so that Gold, Silver, Copper, can have higher ticket sales, concession sales, (Gold higher than Silver. Silver higher than Copper. Copper higher than regular). Also have a decent fan support floor based on which tier your team is in.
So a team could go from Gold 14 one season to regular 22 the next, but wouldn't be punished with a crappy fan support because they were in the toughest league the previous season.
This is very similar to what I've been saying. The difference is I think the caps should go all the way up.
Here is an idea
As teams move through the minors they don't get bumped up levels. They all just move up based on what level cap they should be at if people boosted.
So a team would go
Season 1 Level 4
Season 2 Level 14
Season 3 Level 22
Season 4 Level 31
Season 5 Level 40
Season 6 Level 48
Season 7 AA
You don't bump teams up in levels. Teams can not ask to be demoted or not promoted because they don't boost.
What you do is re-organize leagues within the levels based on record each season.
So let's say you have 8 leagues in level 4 cap.
The top 4 teams from each league are in Level 14 Gold.
The 2nd 4 teams from each league are in Level 14 Silver.
The other 8 teams from each league that made the playoffs are in Level 14 Copper.
Then you put the rest in regular level 14 leagues.
Make it so that Gold, Silver, Copper, can have higher ticket sales, concession sales, (Gold higher than Silver. Silver higher than Copper. Copper higher than regular). Also have a decent fan support floor based on which tier your team is in.
So a team could go from Gold 14 one season to regular 22 the next, but wouldn't be punished with a crappy fan support because they were in the toughest league the previous season.
This is very similar to what I've been saying. The difference is I think the caps should go all the way up.
Skoll Wolfrun
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Originally posted by notthegint
Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Here is an idea
As teams move through the minors they don't get bumped up levels. They all just move up based on what level cap they should be at if people boosted.
So a team would go
Season 1 Level 4
Season 2 Level 14
Season 3 Level 22
Season 4 Level 31
Season 5 Level 40
Season 6 Level 48
Season 7 AA
You don't bump teams up in levels. Teams can not ask to be demoted or not promoted because they don't boost.
What you do is re-organize leagues within the levels based on record each season.
So let's say you have 8 leagues in level 4 cap.
The top 4 teams from each league are in Level 14 Gold.
The 2nd 4 teams from each league are in Level 14 Silver.
The other 8 teams from each league that made the playoffs are in Level 14 Copper.
Then you put the rest in regular level 14 leagues.
Make it so that Gold, Silver, Copper, can have higher ticket sales, concession sales, (Gold higher than Silver. Silver higher than Copper. Copper higher than regular). Also have a decent fan support floor based on which tier your team is in.
So a team could go from Gold 14 one season to regular 22 the next, but wouldn't be punished with a crappy fan support because they were in the toughest league the previous season.
This is very similar to what I've been saying. The difference is I think the caps should go all the way up.
I think he does also, but once you hit AA & up there really only needs to be a few leagues so the need for Gold/Silver/Copper/etc is highly reduced.
Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Here is an idea
As teams move through the minors they don't get bumped up levels. They all just move up based on what level cap they should be at if people boosted.
So a team would go
Season 1 Level 4
Season 2 Level 14
Season 3 Level 22
Season 4 Level 31
Season 5 Level 40
Season 6 Level 48
Season 7 AA
You don't bump teams up in levels. Teams can not ask to be demoted or not promoted because they don't boost.
What you do is re-organize leagues within the levels based on record each season.
So let's say you have 8 leagues in level 4 cap.
The top 4 teams from each league are in Level 14 Gold.
The 2nd 4 teams from each league are in Level 14 Silver.
The other 8 teams from each league that made the playoffs are in Level 14 Copper.
Then you put the rest in regular level 14 leagues.
Make it so that Gold, Silver, Copper, can have higher ticket sales, concession sales, (Gold higher than Silver. Silver higher than Copper. Copper higher than regular). Also have a decent fan support floor based on which tier your team is in.
So a team could go from Gold 14 one season to regular 22 the next, but wouldn't be punished with a crappy fan support because they were in the toughest league the previous season.
This is very similar to what I've been saying. The difference is I think the caps should go all the way up.
I think he does also, but once you hit AA & up there really only needs to be a few leagues so the need for Gold/Silver/Copper/etc is highly reduced.
oauitam
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Leagues become competitive when league games are competitive.
Remove morale.
GLB morale means that teams which are already winning have a greater chance of increasing their winning margin. The only time this makes games more competitive is if somehow the underdog gets an early lead. By definition, this isn't common. In every other case it makes games less competitive.
Sure the word 'morale' can be applied to real world football. The word 'morale' in GLB currently describes the system which fosters blowouts by amplifying slight, potentially overcomable advantages into landslides.
Steve
Remove morale.
GLB morale means that teams which are already winning have a greater chance of increasing their winning margin. The only time this makes games more competitive is if somehow the underdog gets an early lead. By definition, this isn't common. In every other case it makes games less competitive.
Sure the word 'morale' can be applied to real world football. The word 'morale' in GLB currently describes the system which fosters blowouts by amplifying slight, potentially overcomable advantages into landslides.
Steve
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