I think they're being incredibly nice to give us 70% of the flexpoints back...
You'd think most places wouldn't give us anything back...
You'd think most places wouldn't give us anything back...
Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Newbie Help > Will there be forced retirement eventually?
Chugga
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If they are truly in this to make money (obviously) then I think a happy medium would be to allow people to pay a seasonal fee if they don't want their player to retire. For $10 your guy gets to live on for another season. My main problem is the fact that I'm putting in X amount of dollars and at the end of it I'll have nothing to show for it. Sure I get the points back but I'm at square one and my legendary career that I just play through and paid for is gone never to return.
Maybe open up a hall of fame league where "old timers" get to play. It would be a league where guys who are forced into retirement could go instead.
I just am really really really against the idea of my guy just all of a sudden being deleted one day. The getting 70% of points back isn't an issue to me, I just hate the fact that my guy goes *poof* eventually.
Maybe open up a hall of fame league where "old timers" get to play. It would be a league where guys who are forced into retirement could go instead.
I just am really really really against the idea of my guy just all of a sudden being deleted one day. The getting 70% of points back isn't an issue to me, I just hate the fact that my guy goes *poof* eventually.
Chugga
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Actually just reading what Bort said sounds alot better. I'd much rather know that theres a way for my character to be immortalized. I want to know that I can be a HOFer or I could get a bronze bust of myself. I don't really know. I'd just want to keep the lineage going.
Like someone posted up above maybe after a player is forced into retirement you can start up a new character+ that would be the child of that last player. The child would have immediate bonuses. If his father was a HOFer then he might get stat boosts, if his father was rich maybe he'd get an early money boost or better equipment up front. I just think in terms of MMORPG's when you look at the absolute best ones out there, there are never true "wipes" of characters. People want to feel as if they are constantly working towards a bigger goal. And retirement is perfectly fine, like people have said I think it's something that has to happen in some sort of capacity but I think there should be some sort of way to carry on your players legacy.
A child in my book would be ideal. I don't even care about the getting 70% of points back if you ask me thats a huge bonus, I just want to know that my main character isn't going to be 1 and done. I'd like to know there is SOME way to carry on his legacy. I think you'll see that people will be alot more receptive to knowing that theres a way to "keep playing" even with the idea of retirement out there.
Like someone posted up above maybe after a player is forced into retirement you can start up a new character+ that would be the child of that last player. The child would have immediate bonuses. If his father was a HOFer then he might get stat boosts, if his father was rich maybe he'd get an early money boost or better equipment up front. I just think in terms of MMORPG's when you look at the absolute best ones out there, there are never true "wipes" of characters. People want to feel as if they are constantly working towards a bigger goal. And retirement is perfectly fine, like people have said I think it's something that has to happen in some sort of capacity but I think there should be some sort of way to carry on your players legacy.
A child in my book would be ideal. I don't even care about the getting 70% of points back if you ask me thats a huge bonus, I just want to know that my main character isn't going to be 1 and done. I'd like to know there is SOME way to carry on his legacy. I think you'll see that people will be alot more receptive to knowing that theres a way to "keep playing" even with the idea of retirement out there.
Originally posted by Bort
I don't know where DD got the 70% for forced retirement from - we had discussed something higher than that before, since it's forced on you, but that has nothing to do with my next point.
Forget the FP-related stuff for a moment, and look at it from the perspective of a new user.
If you were to sign up in 10 seasons, and there were a bunch of guys at level 50 or whatever, and you knew that they would never ever retire, and you could never ever catch them because they will just keep getting better and better, don't you think that would suck too? Would you want to play the game at that point? You'd probably just give up, thinking "I can never achieve greatness because everyone will always be better."
However, if the players get old, they retire, and they go to the hall of fame, with their name forever immortalized, then you would know that you would have the chance to reach that glory too. There's suddenly an end goal in the game of football immortality, instead of a never ending chase after something you can't catch. That sounds like a lot more fun to me.
---
As for those of you who think we are just in this to "rip you off" or get rich or whatever, you are way off base, and it really hurts me to hear that.
We created this game, in our spare time, while working full time day jobs, because we thought it would be fun. We love football. We love community web games. We're just two regular guys, not some faceless greedy corporation, and we're glad to offer this game to the world, for free.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Our goal when we started the site: at least break even so we can keep the thing running. If we can make it a full time gig, great. If not, we'll do the best we can to keep it going and keep improving it.
I have poured my heart and soul into this game non-stop for the last 7 months, without gaining a single cent until 12 days ago. I've put in 16-20 hour days many many times (today is one of them) during the development of this site because I enjoy working on the game, and I want this to be a fun thing for the masses, not because I want to rip you off.
If you don't think my time and effort is worth paying for, then don't pay for it. It's your choice, and I respect that. Just please don't call me greedy, because I am far from it.
my better half.
I don't know where DD got the 70% for forced retirement from - we had discussed something higher than that before, since it's forced on you, but that has nothing to do with my next point.
Forget the FP-related stuff for a moment, and look at it from the perspective of a new user.
If you were to sign up in 10 seasons, and there were a bunch of guys at level 50 or whatever, and you knew that they would never ever retire, and you could never ever catch them because they will just keep getting better and better, don't you think that would suck too? Would you want to play the game at that point? You'd probably just give up, thinking "I can never achieve greatness because everyone will always be better."
However, if the players get old, they retire, and they go to the hall of fame, with their name forever immortalized, then you would know that you would have the chance to reach that glory too. There's suddenly an end goal in the game of football immortality, instead of a never ending chase after something you can't catch. That sounds like a lot more fun to me.
---
As for those of you who think we are just in this to "rip you off" or get rich or whatever, you are way off base, and it really hurts me to hear that.
We created this game, in our spare time, while working full time day jobs, because we thought it would be fun. We love football. We love community web games. We're just two regular guys, not some faceless greedy corporation, and we're glad to offer this game to the world, for free.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Our goal when we started the site: at least break even so we can keep the thing running. If we can make it a full time gig, great. If not, we'll do the best we can to keep it going and keep improving it.
I have poured my heart and soul into this game non-stop for the last 7 months, without gaining a single cent until 12 days ago. I've put in 16-20 hour days many many times (today is one of them) during the development of this site because I enjoy working on the game, and I want this to be a fun thing for the masses, not because I want to rip you off.
If you don't think my time and effort is worth paying for, then don't pay for it. It's your choice, and I respect that. Just please don't call me greedy, because I am far from it.
my better half.
Almega
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Originally posted by Chugga34
My main problem is the fact that I'm putting in X amount of dollars and at the end of it I'll have nothing to show for it.
The thing is you CHOSE to put in that X amount of dollars. You were never required to. We know the end-game situation, and if a person still chooses to pay the cash, then that is their choice. I'm not trying to hate, flame, or be intentionally harsh. Just stating my feelings on the matter. (Yes, I realize that a lot of people are just now discovering the "end-game" scenario... I hate that it is so sudden. Perhaps DD and Bort can work something out for the early players who decided to pay (if they decide to continue with the diminishing FP idea) considering the clients didn't know what was going to happen.)
My main problem is the fact that I'm putting in X amount of dollars and at the end of it I'll have nothing to show for it.
The thing is you CHOSE to put in that X amount of dollars. You were never required to. We know the end-game situation, and if a person still chooses to pay the cash, then that is their choice. I'm not trying to hate, flame, or be intentionally harsh. Just stating my feelings on the matter. (Yes, I realize that a lot of people are just now discovering the "end-game" scenario... I hate that it is so sudden. Perhaps DD and Bort can work something out for the early players who decided to pay (if they decide to continue with the diminishing FP idea) considering the clients didn't know what was going to happen.)
Last edited Mar 29, 2008 02:43:51
larry_boy_44
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Originally posted by Almega
Originally posted by Chugga34
My main problem is the fact that I'm putting in X amount of dollars and at the end of it I'll have nothing to show for it.
The thing is you CHOSE to put in that X amount of dollars. You were never required to. We know the end-game situation, and if a person still chooses to pay the cash, then that is their choice. I'm not trying to hate, flame, or be intentionally harsh. Just stating my feelings on the matter. (Yes, I realize that a lot of people are just now discovering the "end-game" scenario... I hate that it is so sudden. Perhaps DD and Bort can work something out for the early players who decided to pay (if they decide to continue with the diminishing FP idea) considering the clients didn't know what was going to happen.)
oh come on... WE all knew that retirement was going to happen... This game is just silly and absurd if retirement was never going to come... you can't make a sports game like this and have players playing forever....
Originally posted by Chugga34
My main problem is the fact that I'm putting in X amount of dollars and at the end of it I'll have nothing to show for it.
The thing is you CHOSE to put in that X amount of dollars. You were never required to. We know the end-game situation, and if a person still chooses to pay the cash, then that is their choice. I'm not trying to hate, flame, or be intentionally harsh. Just stating my feelings on the matter. (Yes, I realize that a lot of people are just now discovering the "end-game" scenario... I hate that it is so sudden. Perhaps DD and Bort can work something out for the early players who decided to pay (if they decide to continue with the diminishing FP idea) considering the clients didn't know what was going to happen.)
oh come on... WE all knew that retirement was going to happen... This game is just silly and absurd if retirement was never going to come... you can't make a sports game like this and have players playing forever....
ThePittsburghTag
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If you have people telling you that they're fine with getting 70% back, that should say enough in itself. No one is gonna let themselves get "ripped off" or "scammed" and agree with it. You know now what is going to happen, so if you don't like the return, I suggest don't drop that kind of money into it.
Also, in order to "keep things right" with people, maybe you should give a one time offer for people who are so against the 70% return. That they can receive a full refund of any money they put forth into the game and lose their player or account all together. Sure they'll lose their "time invested", but in the end, there was no real return to begin with other than entertainment. Then make it a point to make notice to any new players of the "retirement rule". This way no one was actually scammed because there was actually people who didn't know about this when they signed up. Or at least put in the "terms of service" (which I didn't read, lol) that you have the right to make such changes to improve the game for it's longevity and incoming players to be able to eventually compete.
People who are just now hearing about this site now is already starting off at a disadvantage. Why keep them at the disadvantage and have future players turned away?
My suggestion would be to offer something for having a player get into the Hall of Fame. That way you're actually shooting for something more than just pride. Only the best get into the Hall in real life, and this game should be the same way. There might be a lot more numbers to crunch, so the site doesn't go belly up with giving out the awards, but in my opinion, the awards could also keep people playing once they start. Also by doing this, that 30% that you don't get back could be viewed as a portion of it is going into the award, and the other portion is going into keeping the site up and running (along with the time you guys put into it).
The way I look at it though, it's the same with any other game you could play or buy at a store or on the internet. When the game is over or you trade the game in, you never get a 100% return. So why expect it here?
Entertainment isn't free! Regardless, someone pays for it. If you go to the arcade and keep dropping quarters in a machine, do you get anything back? No! If you go to the movies, you watch the movie for entertainment. Do you get anything back? No! Entertainment is entertainment, no matter how you look at it. It's gonna be paid for by someone, so why not it be the people who is actually getting the entertainment out of it. (On a side note, I found it quite entertaining that the Green Bay fans where the ones crying the most, but that's beside the point)
I also like what LordMortis said.
Originally posted by
I won't pretend to speak for the developers but it makes perfect sense to me that as much as they are developing a game, they are developing a business model. It takes time and effort and money to put a game up for us to enjoy. A diminishing return for us is a token against a very real investment for them. If I get a 70% of my initial cost as a return, which is to say that I need to spend a recurring 30% to maintain the status quo of my initial expense over the course of player retirements then I am basically paying a subscription fee to maintain the level of game I want to be involved in, much like I would do for most ongoing services provided to me. I decide if the subscription is worth the price. I also consider in my subscription that a season is something like 40 actual days and I imagine that it will take more than just a couple of seasons for my sims to suffer the effects of old age and the need for concern seems very small to me.
I would also expect the retirement to be over a period of seasons rather than once your player reaches it's peak. Take Adrian Peterson for this example. He exploded onto the scene as a rookie. He could very well become the best back in the game for his entire career. He's going to retire (barring injury or any other freak occurrence ) when his age catches up with him, not when he reaches his peak.
Also, you could possibly implement it into a players career that after 10-12 years or so, that he will start declining in attributes. Each year played after the "peak year" the attributes will drop more and more each season. This would then almost force someone to retire their player if they ever want to reach that "top of the league" status again.
I don't know. It's a few things for you guys to take into consideration. I'm sure you'll come up with a good solution to make all parties satisfied. So far after only a day and a half being here, I've really liked everything I seen so far.
One thing about referrals before I end, I just signed up yesterday and I already have 30 possible referrals. Only one has been processed, but the other 29 are pending (mainly because like I said, I just joined yesterday and it takes a day for them to go through and keep active from my understanding). So it's not hard to get referrals, you just have to pick the right places to post your sign-up referral links.
Also, in order to "keep things right" with people, maybe you should give a one time offer for people who are so against the 70% return. That they can receive a full refund of any money they put forth into the game and lose their player or account all together. Sure they'll lose their "time invested", but in the end, there was no real return to begin with other than entertainment. Then make it a point to make notice to any new players of the "retirement rule". This way no one was actually scammed because there was actually people who didn't know about this when they signed up. Or at least put in the "terms of service" (which I didn't read, lol) that you have the right to make such changes to improve the game for it's longevity and incoming players to be able to eventually compete.
People who are just now hearing about this site now is already starting off at a disadvantage. Why keep them at the disadvantage and have future players turned away?
My suggestion would be to offer something for having a player get into the Hall of Fame. That way you're actually shooting for something more than just pride. Only the best get into the Hall in real life, and this game should be the same way. There might be a lot more numbers to crunch, so the site doesn't go belly up with giving out the awards, but in my opinion, the awards could also keep people playing once they start. Also by doing this, that 30% that you don't get back could be viewed as a portion of it is going into the award, and the other portion is going into keeping the site up and running (along with the time you guys put into it).
The way I look at it though, it's the same with any other game you could play or buy at a store or on the internet. When the game is over or you trade the game in, you never get a 100% return. So why expect it here?
Entertainment isn't free! Regardless, someone pays for it. If you go to the arcade and keep dropping quarters in a machine, do you get anything back? No! If you go to the movies, you watch the movie for entertainment. Do you get anything back? No! Entertainment is entertainment, no matter how you look at it. It's gonna be paid for by someone, so why not it be the people who is actually getting the entertainment out of it. (On a side note, I found it quite entertaining that the Green Bay fans where the ones crying the most, but that's beside the point)
I also like what LordMortis said.
Originally posted by
I won't pretend to speak for the developers but it makes perfect sense to me that as much as they are developing a game, they are developing a business model. It takes time and effort and money to put a game up for us to enjoy. A diminishing return for us is a token against a very real investment for them. If I get a 70% of my initial cost as a return, which is to say that I need to spend a recurring 30% to maintain the status quo of my initial expense over the course of player retirements then I am basically paying a subscription fee to maintain the level of game I want to be involved in, much like I would do for most ongoing services provided to me. I decide if the subscription is worth the price. I also consider in my subscription that a season is something like 40 actual days and I imagine that it will take more than just a couple of seasons for my sims to suffer the effects of old age and the need for concern seems very small to me.
I would also expect the retirement to be over a period of seasons rather than once your player reaches it's peak. Take Adrian Peterson for this example. He exploded onto the scene as a rookie. He could very well become the best back in the game for his entire career. He's going to retire (barring injury or any other freak occurrence ) when his age catches up with him, not when he reaches his peak.
Also, you could possibly implement it into a players career that after 10-12 years or so, that he will start declining in attributes. Each year played after the "peak year" the attributes will drop more and more each season. This would then almost force someone to retire their player if they ever want to reach that "top of the league" status again.
I don't know. It's a few things for you guys to take into consideration. I'm sure you'll come up with a good solution to make all parties satisfied. So far after only a day and a half being here, I've really liked everything I seen so far.
One thing about referrals before I end, I just signed up yesterday and I already have 30 possible referrals. Only one has been processed, but the other 29 are pending (mainly because like I said, I just joined yesterday and it takes a day for them to go through and keep active from my understanding). So it's not hard to get referrals, you just have to pick the right places to post your sign-up referral links.
ry31
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Originally posted by Bort
I don't know where DD got the 70% for forced retirement from - we had discussed something higher than that before, since it's forced on you, but that has nothing to do with my next point.
Forget the FP-related stuff for a moment, and look at it from the perspective of a new user.
If you were to sign up in 10 seasons, and there were a bunch of guys at level 50 or whatever, and you knew that they would never ever retire, and you could never ever catch them because they will just keep getting better and better, don't you think that would suck too? Would you want to play the game at that point? You'd probably just give up, thinking "I can never achieve greatness because everyone will always be better."
However, if the players get old, they retire, and they go to the hall of fame, with their name forever immortalized, then you would know that you would have the chance to reach that glory too. There's suddenly an end goal in the game of football immortality, instead of a never ending chase after something you can't catch. That sounds like a lot more fun to me.
---
As for those of you who think we are just in this to "rip you off" or get rich or whatever, you are way off base, and it really hurts me to hear that.
We created this game, in our spare time, while working full time day jobs, because we thought it would be fun. We love football. We love community web games. We're just two regular guys, not some faceless greedy corporation, and we're glad to offer this game to the world, for free.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Our goal when we started the site: at least break even so we can keep the thing running. If we can make it a full time gig, great. If not, we'll do the best we can to keep it going and keep improving it.
I have poured my heart and soul into this game non-stop for the last 7 months, without gaining a single cent until 12 days ago. I've put in 16-20 hour days many many times (today is one of them) during the development of this site because I enjoy working on the game, and I want this to be a fun thing for the masses, not because I want to rip you off.
If you don't think my time and effort is worth paying for, then don't pay for it. It's your choice, and I respect that. Just please don't call me greedy, because I am far from it.
I truely mean no disrespect in this post at all. Being someone whos worked in sales, and marketing. I honestly feel as though this will be the death of this game. From a money standpoint this puzzles me. A lot of this post might sounds sarcastic but I'm only trying to help and this completely puzzles me.
I'm not trying to be rude to anyone but this topic is split up into two types of people, people who play this game for free and basically are making the point that hey this game is free to play you shouldn't complain. The second group of people are the people who are paying money to buy points. Basically it comes off as hey you can play for free your stupid to spend money. Truthly if this is going to happen you are stupid to spend any money on points since its pointless.
I know your not scamming anyone and I'm not saying that at all. But this is a huge slap if the face to anyone who has spent any money on here. Lets start of with your motivation for doing this. You want to create a level playing field for new people that come to the site. And the people who have supported the site, spent money, gave referals and have spent there time to try to improve this site get zero in return. I just think the people that help keep this site up and running, help it grow and comtribute to the forums deserve more respent then this. Point blank this change helps someone that just signed up and hurts someone whos spent money and time here for years. I just think its wrong, its a big F you to anyone who spent money.
With this change why would anyone every spend any money on flex points aside from when they wanted a team. I think thats why people feel they are being scammed. I don't feel scammed but I feel
Maybe I'm missing something but if your players going to retire why would you every spend any money to upgrade him. What would be the motivation in it? If everyones going to retire at some point, if they play long enough everyone is going to get a chance to be one of the top players. I know personally the only reason I have spent flex points on level ups is because I'm trying to close the gap with the top guys and I want to be the top guy. I also don't see why anyone would want to start over again. I mean it would be like beating a RPG, you don't really want to start over and do it again.
I'm not trying to be a baby but I probable won't buy another flex point until I need to extend my team. Based on this you killed all compition of anyone trying to be the best. I no longer see the point in trying to level up my guy now with flex points. Hes going to get to the top at some point.
I also don't get why theres such a fear of people dominating. Looking again at all the people who have helped to make this site work why don't they desure to be the best since they were the onces who helped you first and really started it with you guys. I just think your making this rule for the hypthetical people, rather then the real people you already have.
I also don't see how new people wouldn't have fun. If you look at the top leagues most of the players are around 7. People just starting out aren't going to be playing those guys, so why is there the fear. Those guys are going to keep getting better to the playing fields always going to remain level. With new people why not just put them in a new league which your going to have to create as more and more people come. Why not make level restrictions in different leagues.
I don't know where DD got the 70% for forced retirement from - we had discussed something higher than that before, since it's forced on you, but that has nothing to do with my next point.
Forget the FP-related stuff for a moment, and look at it from the perspective of a new user.
If you were to sign up in 10 seasons, and there were a bunch of guys at level 50 or whatever, and you knew that they would never ever retire, and you could never ever catch them because they will just keep getting better and better, don't you think that would suck too? Would you want to play the game at that point? You'd probably just give up, thinking "I can never achieve greatness because everyone will always be better."
However, if the players get old, they retire, and they go to the hall of fame, with their name forever immortalized, then you would know that you would have the chance to reach that glory too. There's suddenly an end goal in the game of football immortality, instead of a never ending chase after something you can't catch. That sounds like a lot more fun to me.
---
As for those of you who think we are just in this to "rip you off" or get rich or whatever, you are way off base, and it really hurts me to hear that.
We created this game, in our spare time, while working full time day jobs, because we thought it would be fun. We love football. We love community web games. We're just two regular guys, not some faceless greedy corporation, and we're glad to offer this game to the world, for free.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Our goal when we started the site: at least break even so we can keep the thing running. If we can make it a full time gig, great. If not, we'll do the best we can to keep it going and keep improving it.
I have poured my heart and soul into this game non-stop for the last 7 months, without gaining a single cent until 12 days ago. I've put in 16-20 hour days many many times (today is one of them) during the development of this site because I enjoy working on the game, and I want this to be a fun thing for the masses, not because I want to rip you off.
If you don't think my time and effort is worth paying for, then don't pay for it. It's your choice, and I respect that. Just please don't call me greedy, because I am far from it.
I truely mean no disrespect in this post at all. Being someone whos worked in sales, and marketing. I honestly feel as though this will be the death of this game. From a money standpoint this puzzles me. A lot of this post might sounds sarcastic but I'm only trying to help and this completely puzzles me.
I'm not trying to be rude to anyone but this topic is split up into two types of people, people who play this game for free and basically are making the point that hey this game is free to play you shouldn't complain. The second group of people are the people who are paying money to buy points. Basically it comes off as hey you can play for free your stupid to spend money. Truthly if this is going to happen you are stupid to spend any money on points since its pointless.
I know your not scamming anyone and I'm not saying that at all. But this is a huge slap if the face to anyone who has spent any money on here. Lets start of with your motivation for doing this. You want to create a level playing field for new people that come to the site. And the people who have supported the site, spent money, gave referals and have spent there time to try to improve this site get zero in return. I just think the people that help keep this site up and running, help it grow and comtribute to the forums deserve more respent then this. Point blank this change helps someone that just signed up and hurts someone whos spent money and time here for years. I just think its wrong, its a big F you to anyone who spent money.
With this change why would anyone every spend any money on flex points aside from when they wanted a team. I think thats why people feel they are being scammed. I don't feel scammed but I feel
Maybe I'm missing something but if your players going to retire why would you every spend any money to upgrade him. What would be the motivation in it? If everyones going to retire at some point, if they play long enough everyone is going to get a chance to be one of the top players. I know personally the only reason I have spent flex points on level ups is because I'm trying to close the gap with the top guys and I want to be the top guy. I also don't see why anyone would want to start over again. I mean it would be like beating a RPG, you don't really want to start over and do it again.
I'm not trying to be a baby but I probable won't buy another flex point until I need to extend my team. Based on this you killed all compition of anyone trying to be the best. I no longer see the point in trying to level up my guy now with flex points. Hes going to get to the top at some point.
I also don't get why theres such a fear of people dominating. Looking again at all the people who have helped to make this site work why don't they desure to be the best since they were the onces who helped you first and really started it with you guys. I just think your making this rule for the hypthetical people, rather then the real people you already have.
I also don't see how new people wouldn't have fun. If you look at the top leagues most of the players are around 7. People just starting out aren't going to be playing those guys, so why is there the fear. Those guys are going to keep getting better to the playing fields always going to remain level. With new people why not just put them in a new league which your going to have to create as more and more people come. Why not make level restrictions in different leagues.
socnicklin
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Originally posted by ry31
I know your not scamming anyone and I'm not saying that at all. But this is a huge slap if the face to anyone who has spent any money on here. Lets start of with your motivation for doing this. You want to create a level playing field for new people that come to the site. And the people who have supported the site, spent money, gave referals and have spent there time to try to improve this site get zero in return. I just think the people that help keep this site up and running, help it grow and comtribute to the forums deserve more respent then this. Point blank this change helps someone that just signed up and hurts someone whos spent money and time here for years. I just think its wrong, its a big F you to anyone who spent money.
They don't get zero in return. They get 70+% in return. In addition, they might get other bonuses as well. That is something. And, oh yeah, the fun of playing the game for 18 months. Which I am personally already grateful to both Bort and DD for.
And of course retirement favors new players. That is, in part, what it is designed to do. Otherwise someone who joins in a 6 months will never be able to compete and may just leave because of that. For this site to survive it has to appease new players and old ones.
Originally posted by ry31
With this change why would anyone every spend any money on flex points aside from when they wanted a team. I think thats why people feel they are being scammed. I don't feel scammed but I feel
Maybe I'm missing something but if your players going to retire why would you every spend any money to upgrade him. What would be the motivation in it?
To be successful with that character for a year and half.
Originally posted by ry31
If everyones going to retire at some point, if they play long enough everyone is going to get a chance to be one of the top players.
That would be the point I think. Make it so everyone has a chance to be a top player. Not a bad goal for a game to have.
Originally posted by ry31
I mean it would be like beating a RPG, you don't really want to start over and do it again.
Have you ever played an mmorpgs? They are all about doing the same things over and over and over and over and over...
And try a new position. Subtle change that will alter how you look at and play the game.
Originally posted by ry31
I'm not trying to be a baby but I probable won't buy another flex point until I need to extend my team. Based on this you killed all compition of anyone trying to be the best. I no longer see the point in trying to level up my guy now with flex points. Hes going to get to the top at some point.
By all and anyone do you mean the players that joined now? Because without retirement all and anyone will not include anyone who joins after about a month from now. And if being competitive for the next 18 months is not a point, then is this the right game for you? And retirement encourages competition by giving more players the chance to compete.
Originally posted by ry31
I also don't get why theres such a fear of people dominating. Looking again at all the people who have helped to make this site work why don't they desure to be the best since they were the onces who helped you first and really started it with you guys. I just think your making this rule for the hypthetical people, rather then the real people you already have.
For a marketing major you don't understand the concept of bringing in new clients. Why would a person who joins 6 months from now continue playing? He will never dominate or be competitive with 20,000 users. And why? Because he wasn't lucky enough to hear about it first. Seems to me like you just want a god uber pwnzer. The game would become very stale with all the top teams rarely changing. This idea allows new players a chance to thrive while breathing new life into the top leagues. What is the downside?
Originally posted by ry31
I also don't see how new people wouldn't have fun. If you look at the top leagues most of the players are around 7. People just starting out aren't going to be playing those guys, so why is there the fear.
If its alright for the new players of the future to start from the bottom why is it not alright for you?
Originally posted by ry31
Those guys are going to keep getting better to the playing fields always going to remain level. With new people why not just put them in a new league which your going to have to create as more and more people come. Why not make level restrictions in different leagues.
But like you they want to be in the pro leagues. And under your proposed system, they never will be. So why play?
And if you fear not being a part of the top competition while you lvl a new guy, plan ahead. About halfway through the life of your first player, start your next generation. That way when the 1st dies, the next one is ready to step up to the plate.
Based off of the suggestion forums, people want this place to be as realistic as possible. So why stop short of retirement? As I said earlier, it will only cost you $1.26/player(glamour)/month. Toss in fp bonuses at ends of seasons, random gifts from bort/dd, and referrals that cost might even shrink. That isn't a slap in the face in the least. And with the talk of additional bonuses or rewards to people who have retired players, how is that not showing some form of respect?
Not trying to dismiss your worries, its just, in my own opinion, your worries aren't coinciding with what is good for the game/site but what is good for you. And nothing wrong with that.
I know your not scamming anyone and I'm not saying that at all. But this is a huge slap if the face to anyone who has spent any money on here. Lets start of with your motivation for doing this. You want to create a level playing field for new people that come to the site. And the people who have supported the site, spent money, gave referals and have spent there time to try to improve this site get zero in return. I just think the people that help keep this site up and running, help it grow and comtribute to the forums deserve more respent then this. Point blank this change helps someone that just signed up and hurts someone whos spent money and time here for years. I just think its wrong, its a big F you to anyone who spent money.
They don't get zero in return. They get 70+% in return. In addition, they might get other bonuses as well. That is something. And, oh yeah, the fun of playing the game for 18 months. Which I am personally already grateful to both Bort and DD for.
And of course retirement favors new players. That is, in part, what it is designed to do. Otherwise someone who joins in a 6 months will never be able to compete and may just leave because of that. For this site to survive it has to appease new players and old ones.
Originally posted by ry31
With this change why would anyone every spend any money on flex points aside from when they wanted a team. I think thats why people feel they are being scammed. I don't feel scammed but I feel
Maybe I'm missing something but if your players going to retire why would you every spend any money to upgrade him. What would be the motivation in it?
To be successful with that character for a year and half.
Originally posted by ry31
If everyones going to retire at some point, if they play long enough everyone is going to get a chance to be one of the top players.
That would be the point I think. Make it so everyone has a chance to be a top player. Not a bad goal for a game to have.
Originally posted by ry31
I mean it would be like beating a RPG, you don't really want to start over and do it again.
Have you ever played an mmorpgs? They are all about doing the same things over and over and over and over and over...
And try a new position. Subtle change that will alter how you look at and play the game.
Originally posted by ry31
I'm not trying to be a baby but I probable won't buy another flex point until I need to extend my team. Based on this you killed all compition of anyone trying to be the best. I no longer see the point in trying to level up my guy now with flex points. Hes going to get to the top at some point.
By all and anyone do you mean the players that joined now? Because without retirement all and anyone will not include anyone who joins after about a month from now. And if being competitive for the next 18 months is not a point, then is this the right game for you? And retirement encourages competition by giving more players the chance to compete.
Originally posted by ry31
I also don't get why theres such a fear of people dominating. Looking again at all the people who have helped to make this site work why don't they desure to be the best since they were the onces who helped you first and really started it with you guys. I just think your making this rule for the hypthetical people, rather then the real people you already have.
For a marketing major you don't understand the concept of bringing in new clients. Why would a person who joins 6 months from now continue playing? He will never dominate or be competitive with 20,000 users. And why? Because he wasn't lucky enough to hear about it first. Seems to me like you just want a god uber pwnzer. The game would become very stale with all the top teams rarely changing. This idea allows new players a chance to thrive while breathing new life into the top leagues. What is the downside?
Originally posted by ry31
I also don't see how new people wouldn't have fun. If you look at the top leagues most of the players are around 7. People just starting out aren't going to be playing those guys, so why is there the fear.
If its alright for the new players of the future to start from the bottom why is it not alright for you?
Originally posted by ry31
Those guys are going to keep getting better to the playing fields always going to remain level. With new people why not just put them in a new league which your going to have to create as more and more people come. Why not make level restrictions in different leagues.
But like you they want to be in the pro leagues. And under your proposed system, they never will be. So why play?
And if you fear not being a part of the top competition while you lvl a new guy, plan ahead. About halfway through the life of your first player, start your next generation. That way when the 1st dies, the next one is ready to step up to the plate.
Based off of the suggestion forums, people want this place to be as realistic as possible. So why stop short of retirement? As I said earlier, it will only cost you $1.26/player(glamour)/month. Toss in fp bonuses at ends of seasons, random gifts from bort/dd, and referrals that cost might even shrink. That isn't a slap in the face in the least. And with the talk of additional bonuses or rewards to people who have retired players, how is that not showing some form of respect?
Not trying to dismiss your worries, its just, in my own opinion, your worries aren't coinciding with what is good for the game/site but what is good for you. And nothing wrong with that.
Last edited Mar 29, 2008 05:31:33
Juggalokai
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Originally posted by ry31
Originally posted by Bort
I don't know where DD got the 70% for forced retirement from - we had discussed something higher than that before, since it's forced on you, but that has nothing to do with my next point.
Forget the FP-related stuff for a moment, and look at it from the perspective of a new user.
If you were to sign up in 10 seasons, and there were a bunch of guys at level 50 or whatever, and you knew that they would never ever retire, and you could never ever catch them because they will just keep getting better and better, don't you think that would suck too? Would you want to play the game at that point? You'd probably just give up, thinking "I can never achieve greatness because everyone will always be better."
However, if the players get old, they retire, and they go to the hall of fame, with their name forever immortalized, then you would know that you would have the chance to reach that glory too. There's suddenly an end goal in the game of football immortality, instead of a never ending chase after something you can't catch. That sounds like a lot more fun to me.
---
As for those of you who think we are just in this to "rip you off" or get rich or whatever, you are way off base, and it really hurts me to hear that.
We created this game, in our spare time, while working full time day jobs, because we thought it would be fun. We love football. We love community web games. We're just two regular guys, not some faceless greedy corporation, and we're glad to offer this game to the world, for free.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Our goal when we started the site: at least break even so we can keep the thing running. If we can make it a full time gig, great. If not, we'll do the best we can to keep it going and keep improving it.
I have poured my heart and soul into this game non-stop for the last 7 months, without gaining a single cent until 12 days ago. I've put in 16-20 hour days many many times (today is one of them) during the development of this site because I enjoy working on the game, and I want this to be a fun thing for the masses, not because I want to rip you off.
If you don't think my time and effort is worth paying for, then don't pay for it. It's your choice, and I respect that. Just please don't call me greedy, because I am far from it.
I truely mean no disrespect in this post at all. Being someone whos worked in sales, and marketing. I honestly feel as though this will be the death of this game. From a money standpoint this puzzles me. A lot of this post might sounds sarcastic but I'm only trying to help and this completely puzzles me.
I'm not trying to be rude to anyone but this topic is split up into two types of people, people who play this game for free and basically are making the point that hey this game is free to play you shouldn't complain. The second group of people are the people who are paying money to buy points. Basically it comes off as hey you can play for free your stupid to spend money. Truthly if this is going to happen you are stupid to spend any money on points since its pointless.
I know your not scamming anyone and I'm not saying that at all. But this is a huge slap if the face to anyone who has spent any money on here. Lets start of with your motivation for doing this. You want to create a level playing field for new people that come to the site. And the people who have supported the site, spent money, gave referals and have spent there time to try to improve this site get zero in return. I just think the people that help keep this site up and running, help it grow and comtribute to the forums deserve more respent then this. Point blank this change helps someone that just signed up and hurts someone whos spent money and time here for years. I just think its wrong, its a big F you to anyone who spent money.
With this change why would anyone every spend any money on flex points aside from when they wanted a team. I think thats why people feel they are being scammed. I don't feel scammed but I feel
Maybe I'm missing something but if your players going to retire why would you every spend any money to upgrade him. What would be the motivation in it? If everyones going to retire at some point, if they play long enough everyone is going to get a chance to be one of the top players. I know personally the only reason I have spent flex points on level ups is because I'm trying to close the gap with the top guys and I want to be the top guy. I also don't see why anyone would want to start over again. I mean it would be like beating a RPG, you don't really want to start over and do it again.
I'm not trying to be a baby but I probable won't buy another flex point until I need to extend my team. Based on this you killed all compition of anyone trying to be the best. I no longer see the point in trying to level up my guy now with flex points. Hes going to get to the top at some point.
I also don't get why theres such a fear of people dominating. Looking again at all the people who have helped to make this site work why don't they desure to be the best since they were the onces who helped you first and really started it with you guys. I just think your making this rule for the hypthetical people, rather then the real people you already have.
I also don't see how new people wouldn't have fun. If you look at the top leagues most of the players are around 7. People just starting out aren't going to be playing those guys, so why is there the fear. Those guys are going to keep getting better to the playing fields always going to remain level. With new people why not just put them in a new league which your going to have to create as more and more people come. Why not make level restrictions in different leagues.
as a member of GLB i have to say you SUCK
The game IS FREE and Bort said he worked hard on it
he is one of the best Admins i have ever seen
if ppl wanna DONATE money then why do u give a crap?
dont come here with ur "highly educated" posts and tell us we are stupid
for spending money GTFO and move on
Originally posted by Bort
I don't know where DD got the 70% for forced retirement from - we had discussed something higher than that before, since it's forced on you, but that has nothing to do with my next point.
Forget the FP-related stuff for a moment, and look at it from the perspective of a new user.
If you were to sign up in 10 seasons, and there were a bunch of guys at level 50 or whatever, and you knew that they would never ever retire, and you could never ever catch them because they will just keep getting better and better, don't you think that would suck too? Would you want to play the game at that point? You'd probably just give up, thinking "I can never achieve greatness because everyone will always be better."
However, if the players get old, they retire, and they go to the hall of fame, with their name forever immortalized, then you would know that you would have the chance to reach that glory too. There's suddenly an end goal in the game of football immortality, instead of a never ending chase after something you can't catch. That sounds like a lot more fun to me.
---
As for those of you who think we are just in this to "rip you off" or get rich or whatever, you are way off base, and it really hurts me to hear that.
We created this game, in our spare time, while working full time day jobs, because we thought it would be fun. We love football. We love community web games. We're just two regular guys, not some faceless greedy corporation, and we're glad to offer this game to the world, for free.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Our goal when we started the site: at least break even so we can keep the thing running. If we can make it a full time gig, great. If not, we'll do the best we can to keep it going and keep improving it.
I have poured my heart and soul into this game non-stop for the last 7 months, without gaining a single cent until 12 days ago. I've put in 16-20 hour days many many times (today is one of them) during the development of this site because I enjoy working on the game, and I want this to be a fun thing for the masses, not because I want to rip you off.
If you don't think my time and effort is worth paying for, then don't pay for it. It's your choice, and I respect that. Just please don't call me greedy, because I am far from it.
I truely mean no disrespect in this post at all. Being someone whos worked in sales, and marketing. I honestly feel as though this will be the death of this game. From a money standpoint this puzzles me. A lot of this post might sounds sarcastic but I'm only trying to help and this completely puzzles me.
I'm not trying to be rude to anyone but this topic is split up into two types of people, people who play this game for free and basically are making the point that hey this game is free to play you shouldn't complain. The second group of people are the people who are paying money to buy points. Basically it comes off as hey you can play for free your stupid to spend money. Truthly if this is going to happen you are stupid to spend any money on points since its pointless.
I know your not scamming anyone and I'm not saying that at all. But this is a huge slap if the face to anyone who has spent any money on here. Lets start of with your motivation for doing this. You want to create a level playing field for new people that come to the site. And the people who have supported the site, spent money, gave referals and have spent there time to try to improve this site get zero in return. I just think the people that help keep this site up and running, help it grow and comtribute to the forums deserve more respent then this. Point blank this change helps someone that just signed up and hurts someone whos spent money and time here for years. I just think its wrong, its a big F you to anyone who spent money.
With this change why would anyone every spend any money on flex points aside from when they wanted a team. I think thats why people feel they are being scammed. I don't feel scammed but I feel
Maybe I'm missing something but if your players going to retire why would you every spend any money to upgrade him. What would be the motivation in it? If everyones going to retire at some point, if they play long enough everyone is going to get a chance to be one of the top players. I know personally the only reason I have spent flex points on level ups is because I'm trying to close the gap with the top guys and I want to be the top guy. I also don't see why anyone would want to start over again. I mean it would be like beating a RPG, you don't really want to start over and do it again.
I'm not trying to be a baby but I probable won't buy another flex point until I need to extend my team. Based on this you killed all compition of anyone trying to be the best. I no longer see the point in trying to level up my guy now with flex points. Hes going to get to the top at some point.
I also don't get why theres such a fear of people dominating. Looking again at all the people who have helped to make this site work why don't they desure to be the best since they were the onces who helped you first and really started it with you guys. I just think your making this rule for the hypthetical people, rather then the real people you already have.
I also don't see how new people wouldn't have fun. If you look at the top leagues most of the players are around 7. People just starting out aren't going to be playing those guys, so why is there the fear. Those guys are going to keep getting better to the playing fields always going to remain level. With new people why not just put them in a new league which your going to have to create as more and more people come. Why not make level restrictions in different leagues.
as a member of GLB i have to say you SUCK
The game IS FREE and Bort said he worked hard on it
he is one of the best Admins i have ever seen
if ppl wanna DONATE money then why do u give a crap?
dont come here with ur "highly educated" posts and tell us we are stupid
for spending money GTFO and move on
broadwayg
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I hope height/weight ratio doesn't factor into retirement age or 5'11" 334 lb. Broadway Gee will be in trouble soon. 
But Broadway Eff will be right along afterwards.
But Broadway Eff will be right along afterwards.
Juggalokai
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Originally posted by broadwayg
I hope height/weight ratio doesn't factor into retirement age or 5'11" 334 lb. Broadway Gee will be in trouble soon.
But Broadway Eff will be right along afterwards.
LLMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
haha thats huge
i dont think that willa ffect anything ;p
I hope height/weight ratio doesn't factor into retirement age or 5'11" 334 lb. Broadway Gee will be in trouble soon.
But Broadway Eff will be right along afterwards.
LLMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
haha thats huge
i dont think that willa ffect anything ;p
Cromlech
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For those that want a return on their investment: Put your money in a bank account.
For those that think this is a scam: I have some very useful nigerian ebay contacts that will show you what a scam is.
For the admins/creators: Please put a donate button on the site, As I would happily pay just for the work you have done. And I consider this for better value than spending £20 on a dvd that will watch once or £30 on a game i'll play for a few weeks. I pay £10 per month for city of heroes and don't get a return on my money with that either.
Bort and Co.: Great Job keep it up.
For those that think this is a scam: I have some very useful nigerian ebay contacts that will show you what a scam is.
For the admins/creators: Please put a donate button on the site, As I would happily pay just for the work you have done. And I consider this for better value than spending £20 on a dvd that will watch once or £30 on a game i'll play for a few weeks. I pay £10 per month for city of heroes and don't get a return on my money with that either.
Bort and Co.: Great Job keep it up.
uncle_wilf
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One of the problems here is that this game is a curious hybrid of MMORPG and a Sports Management game. In the former, characters get better with experience and you don't have to worry about thinks like old age and retirement. In the latter, however, players age over the seasons and eventually get too old to continue; which caps skill inflation in the league. The question is how to satisfy game-players from both backgrounds.
To my mind, you have to introduce some sort of aging effects, to prevent runaway skill inflation, and some sort of benefit for retiring experienced players.
For example: You could reduce aging points that occur at certain points in a players career. At aging point X, each stat would be reduced by X. You could also introduce mandatory retirement for any player who has a stat that falls to 0. (call it medical retirement). This could be delayed by tactical training of the lower stats, but this eventually would produce diminishing returns. You could also change the flex point refund so that the longer a player plays, the greater the return on retirement. For example a player who had had a career of X seasons might get 100% of creation + (70 + 3x)% of invested points. Thus a player who had played for more than 10 seasons would actually get a positive refund for setting up their next player(s).
To my mind, you have to introduce some sort of aging effects, to prevent runaway skill inflation, and some sort of benefit for retiring experienced players.
For example: You could reduce aging points that occur at certain points in a players career. At aging point X, each stat would be reduced by X. You could also introduce mandatory retirement for any player who has a stat that falls to 0. (call it medical retirement). This could be delayed by tactical training of the lower stats, but this eventually would produce diminishing returns. You could also change the flex point refund so that the longer a player plays, the greater the return on retirement. For example a player who had had a career of X seasons might get 100% of creation + (70 + 3x)% of invested points. Thus a player who had played for more than 10 seasons would actually get a positive refund for setting up their next player(s).
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